COVID-19

[LGR4GM]

To do this right we need a clinical control trial. We need to compare standard COVID19 treatment (which we still do not have) to HCQ treatment in large patient sample. Then we can know something and then we can move forward. It isn't about politics with HQC, it would be awesome if it worked but right now the evidence is questionable at best and broad proclamations don't help. Here is a good read on HCQ from medline plus for those that want to know more about the drug itself. 

https://medlineplus.gov/druginfo/meds/a601240.html

[Ogre]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Again:  I mentioned the sides and drinks at BK in response to someone else's post about 2 whoppers for $5.  Not sure what the problem is here.

 

Would you say that complaining for months about a deleted post that I offered to restore is pointless?

 

The link you posted in no way refutes my assertion.  It's just more PO'd free association of the type that surfaces easily among people who are so inclined who want to turn every discussion into a political argument.

So you mention the inner city and it’s fine, I mention the inner city and it’s political? 
 

Puh-leeeeeeez!

Its all about policy with me. Inner city people have less access to good food. Period. They have less training on how to grow their own food. Period.

That’s exactly why I grow extra seedlings, to disperse in the inner city organizations that start gardens and try to teach children about good food and how to grow it. 
 

That’s why this is the second bin this size this week that I distribute to the free produce markets all over the city.

You don’t like my personality or style? Fine! But get your GD finger off the delete button. People are trying to reach out to help people you jerk. 
 

BTW, still awaiting those stats.

 

And, I love you, man?.

[LGR4GM]

Everyone should be aware of and learn about Urban Food Deserts 

https://www.ers.usda.gov/webdocs/publications/45014/30940_err140.pdf

Quote

Census tracts with higher poverty rates are more likely to be food deserts than otherwise similar low-income census tracts in rural and in very dense (highly populated) urban areas. For less dense urban areas, census tracts with higher concentrations of minority populations are more likely to be food deserts, while tracts with substantial decreases in minority populations between 1990 and 2000 were less likely to be identified as food deserts in 2000.

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by LGR4GM

[shrader]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I've already read this and it is not a peer reviewed anything. In fact the Yale professor who wrote this btw is a major cancer researcher so when it comes to anti-viral meds I am a little skeptical. Further if he would like to submit a meta analyses he can but his musing in newsweek entitled "opinion" don't sway the evidence that I have reviewed including several of the studies he refers too. Interesting the one he locks into is one that discusses outpatient treatment so again, if this works why is it only working in certain instances? Why doesn't it work all the time. HQC is not a cure. 

I'm curious.  You keep throwing the word cure out there.  Is that the only bar you're aiming for here?  If that's the case, you'll wind up saying the same exact things about every treatment being explored.

[JujuFish]

57 minutes ago, Ogre said:

Your emotion and position here permitted you to violate my first amendment right.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe this applies to private entities, like our community here.

[bg17]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Sweden hasn't gotten close to herd immunity levels. Antibody testing shows about 10% of the population got infected.

I'd still like to know how we get to herd immunity when the immune response doesn't seem to be a lasting one.

They're talking about a vaccine that will be similar to the flu shot. Effective in as little as half the people who get it with the idea those who get sick anyway won't get as sick as they would have.

What are your thoughts on why their cases and deaths have plummeted to near nothing?

[Ogre]

12 minutes ago, JujuFish said:

I could be wrong, but I don't believe this applies to private entities, like our community here.

You could very well be right but that doesn’t make IT right. 

[shrader]

Paging Supreme Court Justice Smell, you have a call on the white courtesy phone.  Justice Smell, white courtesy phone.

[JujuFish]

5 minutes ago, Ogre said:

You could very well be right but that doesn’t make IT right. 

Agreed.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, shrader said:

I'm curious.  You keep throwing the word cure out there.  Is that the only bar you're aiming for here?  If that's the case, you'll wind up saying the same exact things about every treatment being explored.

This is why I hate the censorship on this forum. I literally cannot explain it because I'll get banned for doing so. 

Hcq alone has not been shown to significantly reduce mortality. Again we need a real control trial. 

[Wyldnwoody44]

We simply can't cure viruses, we haven't been able to for hundreds of years and we aren't going to anytime soon (except hepatitis C) we can get to treatments to help them lay dormant or to allow timing out of the virus so it can't replicate properly. 

Maybe we can figure out some of the miraculous breakthroughs that cure Hep C and implement that in research going forward; it's also rather sad, but a lot of "studies" being put forth are pure junk and speculation and being touted as actual science. Mostly because we have a need to have something new in our faces every 15 seconds. 

[Ogre]

9 hours ago, atoq said:

If only we could discuss the social context that led to this...

Amen to that my friend. Real solutions that provide real answers for the majority of people come from dialogue and if one voice has the power to silence the other voices then ideas aren’t exchanged and solutions get overlooked.

 

9 hours ago, atoq said:

I live and work in the tropics and we almost always take our chances with the possibility of catching malaria instead of taking preventative anti-malarial drugs, due to the severe side effects.

That’s an eye opener for me. I’ve never had to deal with the threat and never really thought about it before. 
 

I’m curious about the work you are doing in the tropics that exposes you to malaria? 

Edited August 4, 2020 by Ogre
Autocorrect. I’m not tropics, or in them...

[Ogre]

7 minutes ago, Wyldnwoody44 said:

We simply can't cure viruses,

And that’s exactly why I wash my hands like a mofo. I’m not exactly a germophobe but I have always been creeped out with all these dirty IWs wanting to use my gloves or borrow my welding hood. Eww. F no! 
 

 We put a sulfur dioxide scrubber on an old coal fired power plant back in the day. The new technology had everyone stand in line and scanning their hands on the same scanner to get in and out of the site . 
 

I used hand sanitizer every time and these dummies would bust my balls but I did not give one F.

Eventually an outbreak of Norovirus took out 160 of the 200 on site. Not this cat though.?

[shrader]

48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This is why I hate the censorship on this forum. I literally cannot explain it because I'll get banned for doing so. 

Hcq alone has not been shown to significantly reduce mortality. Again we need a real control trial. 

A completely randomized trial is great and all, but sometimes when you’re in the middle of the battle that’s just not how things are going to go. You’re not going to see any fancy setup at this point. They’re going to have to make do with the observational data. 

 

And if something is effective only in combination, that’s still a a good thing as long as you are getting that combination. You’ll find countless numbers of combined therapies around the medical field. 
 

12 minutes ago, Ogre said:

Amen to that my friend. Real solutions that provide real answers for the majority of people come from dialogue and if one voice has the power to silence the other voices then ideas aren’t exchanged and solutions get overlooked.

 

It’s a freaking message board. Lighten up Francis. 

[Ogre]

8 minutes ago, shrader said:

Lighten up Francis.

The name’s Francis Soyer....

[Eleven]

4 hours ago, Lanny said:

 

Tamiflu

I don't know what that is.  Is it a flu cure?

 

EDIT:  I've read up a bit.  Nice!

Edited August 4, 2020 by Eleven

[Taro T]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

This is why I hate the censorship on this forum. I literally cannot explain it because I'll get banned for doing so.

Hcq alone has not been shown to significantly reduce mortality. Again we need a real control trial.

And almost nobody in at least the last month, if not at least the last 2, suggests that HCQ ALONE has any efficacy against COVID-19.  Everybody touting successful usage points to using it in combination with zinc or azithromycin.  Which is part of why it is frustrating to see so much of the work to support it or debunk it tests/ studies the results of using it alone.

[LGR4GM]

3 hours ago, Taro T said:

And almost nobody in at least the last month, if not at least the last 2, suggests that HCQ ALONE has any efficacy against COVID-19.  Everybody touting successful usage points to using it in combination with zinc or azithromycin.  Which is part of why it is frustrating to see so much of the work to support it or debunk it tests/ studies the results of using it alone.

And those studies are also inconclusive. 

The best one I read had overlapping confidence intervals for mortality compared to a standard treatment. If Mortality with all three is between 12-16% and another treatment is 14-18% in 1 study, that concerns me because of the overlap and not knowing or being able to isolate what is going on. 

Idk what else to say. The studies are inconclusive but there have been some doctors and some others who have claimed that we can open everything back up and everything is going to be fine because we now have a verifiable way to treat COVID. That just doesn't mesh with the current science. It might but if it worked so well why haven't we witnessed death rates plunge? How much of the death rate has gone down because we have found ways to manage parts of COVID with perhaps this or other treatments? The death rate was always going to slip down once doctors learned about the disease. 

[That Aud Smell]

17 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

They're talking about a vaccine that will be similar to the flu shot. Effective in as little as half the people who get it with the idea those who get sick anyway won't get as sick as they would have.

I have not kept up with the reporting. At one point, I read someone talking encouragingly about how polio's basically been eradicated. But then someone else chimed in that this is a coronavirus -- a notoriously elusive sort of thing. Perhaps the idea is to get something like the flu shot, only a lot more effective (but not a silver bullet).

14 hours ago, shrader said:

Paging Supreme Court Justice Smell, you have a call on the white courtesy phone.  Justice Smell, white courtesy phone.

p.s. Y'all don't need an internet judge or a real-life lawyer to clarify that only the government can violate someone's 1st Amendment rights.

[PASabreFan]

14 hours ago, Eleven said:

I don't know what that is.  Is it a flu cure?

 

EDIT:  I've read up a bit.  Nice!

They have penicillin now, too. It's been in all the placards posted down by the canal.

Does anyone care what the FDA says about hydroxyorangequine?

[Curt]

17 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

They have penicillin now, too. It's been in all the placards posted down by the canal.

Does anyone care what the FDA says about hydroxyorangequine?

I don’t know if you were implying that it is, but penicillin does not treat viral infections.  It’s an antibiotic, which only treat bacterial infections.

I chuckled at the bolded.

[PASabreFan]

17 hours ago, bg17 said:

What are your thoughts on why their cases and deaths have plummeted to near nothing?

Here are some snippets I found interesting. Honestly I don't care that much about Sweden. I don't want to move there and frolick in an untied bathrobe not worrying about infecting others or getting infected. I was just pointing out Sweden didn't achieve herd immunity and it wasn't really their goal in the first place, as is suggested below.

Quote

Sweden is tackling the COVID-19 pandemic through both legally binding measures and recommendations. The government and the Swedish Public Health Agency have taken a number of decisions involving a wide range of new regulations and recommendations that affect the whole of society, including people’s private lives. There is no full lockdown in force, but many parts of Swedish society have shut down.

Life is not carrying on as normal in Sweden. Many people are staying at home and many have stopped travelling. This has had severe effects on Swedes as well as on the Swedish economy. Many businesses are folding. Unemployment is expected to rise dramatically. The Government has taken several measures to mitigate the economic effects and to stabilise the economy.

https://www.healtheuropa.eu/swedens-response-to-covid-19-life-is-not-carrying-on-as-normal/101515/

Quote

However, on a per-capita basis, Sweden far outpaces its Scandinavian neighbors in COVID deaths, with 567 deaths per million people compared with Denmark's 106 deaths per million, Finland's 59 deaths per million, and Norway's 47 deaths per million. The Swedish figure is closer to Italy's 581 deaths per million.

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87812

And why we can't be Sweden:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s

(Sorry that my url's don't turn into links. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. It ain't me.)

Edited August 4, 2020 by PASabreFan

[PASabreFan]

5 minutes ago, Curt said:

I don’t know if you were implying that it is, but penicillin does not treat viral infections.  It’s an antibiotic, which only treat bacterial infections.

I chuckled at the bolded.

Enjoy it while it lasts. nfreeman threw some change on the lawn and told me to stay outside for awhile.

[bg17]

18 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Here are some snippets I found interesting. Honestly I don't care that much about Sweden. I don't want to move there and frolick in an untied bathrobe not worrying about infecting others or getting infected. I was just pointing out Sweden didn't achieve herd immunity and it wasn't really their goal in the first place, as is suggested below.

https://www.healtheuropa.eu/swedens-response-to-covid-19-life-is-not-carrying-on-as-normal/101515/

https://www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/87812

And why we can't be Sweden:

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s

(Sorry that my url's don't turn into links. Sometimes they do and sometimes they don't. It ain't me.)

None of that speaks to why their cases and deaths are down to virtually nothing at the moment. 

[PASabreFan]

54 minutes ago, bg17 said:

None of that speaks to why their cases and deaths are down to virtually nothing at the moment. 

The articles themselves address the issue directly. There are only theories as to why Sweden bent the curve so dramatically after their spike. Trust in their health experts, higher level of societal responsibility (flying in the face of the theory that Sweden bent the curve by telling everyone to go crazy, folks, go crazy), measures the government took, their health care system etc. But it doesn't appear to be that enough people got infected to close down the virus.