COVID-19

[FogBat]

4 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Unfortunately, there are a lot of voices that have an audience, and shouldn’t. 

Tell me about it!

[WildCard]

2 week quarantine for anyone entering NYS for the following high risk states:

• Alabama
• Arkansas
• Arizona
• Florida
• North Carolina
• South Carolina
• Washington
• Utah
• Texas

No idea how they enforce that if you're not flying though. If they do have a way for drivers, what if you moved to that state, and still have NYS plates?

[PASabreFan]

50 minutes ago, WildCard said:

2 week quarantine for anyone entering NYS for the following high risk states:

• Alabama
• Arkansas
• Arizona
• Florida
• North Carolina
• South Carolina
• Washington
• Utah
• Texas

No idea how they enforce that if you're not flying though. If they do have a way for drivers, what if you moved to that state, and still have NYS plates?

How do they enforce the quarantine? It can't be more than a strong recommendation.

[Eleven]

6 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

How do they enforce the quarantine? It can't be more than a strong recommendation.

They can't and it isn't.

[SwampD]

2 minutes ago, Neo said:

I have big plans with my NYS family in the works.   Multiple events, multiple dates.

I visited the NYS Health/COVID website.  I called its COVID hotline.    I visited the Governor’s website.  I called his office.

No one has any idea what it means, what I can and cannot do, who enforces this, etc.

Abbott and Costello had nothing on the wonderful, beautiful, human beings I talked to.  God love ‘em.  Not verbatim, and an amalgamation of several calls, but illustrative samples ...

“If I stay in a house with NYS family members, must THEY self quarantine?”.  “Hold please.”

”Can I visit friends?”. “No.”

“Can I stay with friends?”  “Yes.”  

“Can I visit with friends I’m staying with?”   “Hold please.”

“If I stay with friends, can they visit their other friends or their family?”  “I’m not sure.”   “Can they go to work while I’m staying there?”  “I don’t know.”

Side note ...  the COVID hotline referred me to the Governor.  The Governor’s phone system referred me to COVID Hotline.

They need more resources.

Or, it will discourage just enough people to stay home, keeping the current drip drip drip of new cases that we have now, and you'll be fine doing whatever you are going to do.

[Curt]

2 minutes ago, Neo said:

I have big plans with my NYS family in the works.   Multiple events, multiple dates.

I visited the NYS Health/COVID website.  I called its COVID hotline.    I visited the Governor’s website.  I called his office.

No one has any idea what it means, what I can and cannot do, who enforces this, etc.

Abbott and Costello had nothing on the wonderful, beautiful, human beings I talked to.  God love ‘em.  Not verbatim, and an amalgamation of several calls, but illustrative samples ...

“If I stay in a house with NYS family members, must THEY self quarantine?”.  “Hold please.”

”Can I visit friends?”. “No.”

“Can I stay with friends?”  “Yes.”  

“Can I visit with friends I’m staying with?”   “Hold please.”

“If I stay with friends, can they visit their other friends or their family?”  “I’m not sure.”   “Can they go to work while I’m staying there?”  “I don’t know.”

Side note ...  the COVID hotline referred me to the Governor.  The Governor’s phone system referred me to COVID Hotline.

They need more resources.

They are still figuring it out, haha.  I would say that it’s a deterrent more than anything else.  I doubt they plan on allocating resources to enforcing any of it.

[Eleven]

Neo, please stay home.

Tens if not hundreds of thousands of New York Staters respected Florida's request that we stay home during spring break.  Meanwhile, Florida and Texas and others went about as if almost nothing could happen locally.  Now that's being paid out, and we ask that you respect our state's request like we did your state's.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Eleven

[Neo]

I am happy to see Federalists being born!

My inquiry was to learn NYS’s wishes in order to be respectful.  I can’t wait to see the “figured out” version.  There will never be one.  There can never be one.   BUILD THAT WALL, BUILD THAT WALL!  Oh, the ironies.   Xenophobes,  I say.  icrackmeup.

I am inspired, so further to the mention of things playing themselves out with different states and different choices.  Someone once mentioned federal pandemic bailouts in the context of states not paying their fair share.   I’ll stay home.  NYS can fund its losses.  Am I following along?  If you want my earnings, I get to have a Ted’s Hot Dog.

The difference between a New Yorker and a Floridian matters not to me in this circumstance.  The duty to be  courteous doesn’t wax or wane situationally or geographically.  How you define courtesy varies person to person, state boarders being irrelevant.  There is no self appointed spokesperson I recognize on behalf of NYS.  I am not a spokesperson for Florida.   In the words of the great philosopher, “a man’s gotta recognize his limitations.”

I felt no “Floridian” pride when more people were dying elsewhere.   I didn’t look to Tallahassee and see anyone who was a super-competent manager.  New York wasn’t dumber two months ago and it isn’t smarter, today.

There is a fascinating conversation to be had.  It’s about human nature, assumption of risk, communal living and utility.   There are three hundred and thirty million views in the US.  Most are modified by the hour.  I don’t look to Albany, or Tallahassee, or Washington with any more confidence than I look into the mirror.  I certainly haven’t been inspired by anyone in those cities during the pandemic.  I understand the “my guy got it right, your guy got it wrong” tribal instincts.  I understand those instincts like I understand a wart or a rash.

There are New Yorkers who don’t want me to visit.  There are New Yorkers, with equal standing and bona fides, who do want me to visit.  Good conversations to have unencumbered by tribalism and parochialism.  Who here claims to be expert enough to advise?  I am not.

Now, lastly, and with no cynicism, snark or rhetorical flourish ....  my NYS family includes my closest kin across four generations.  My wife is there and has been for weeks.  The difference in pandemic lifestyle, and point of view, is remarkable to me as we describe daily events.  Perhaps this is a great Federalist moment.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Neo

[Weave]

Neo, you’re over thinking it.  The same request was presented to Woody when it was NY in the crosshairs and he wanted to travel out of NY.  
 

Its a pandemic.  We’re all missing people that the time is not now to see.

[PASabreFan]

Neo's got me spinning, and when I open my eyes I don't know if I want to kiss or punch him.

Taking this out of the realm of the hypothetical and into the personal, I do feel bad this pandemic might mess up your plans to visit family and friends right now. Would your stay be long-term? If you're staying for a month, 14 days doing extreme social distancing wouldn't necessarily ruin your trip. If it's a one- or two-week stay, it probably would.

Probably, because — Do you have to stay locked up in a room by yourself? No. Separate bathroom if possible, don't share towels and stuff, disinfect, etc. sure. Do you have to stay distanced from people and always wear a mask (when you're not by yourself)? Yes. But I don't think quarantine means you can't go for a walk outside, even with others. With common sense distancing, not wearing a mask wouldn't be that risky for anyone, but why not wear one? Visiting people? Technically, probably not. But you wouldn't go maskless into someone's crowded living room and start kissing people like you're Richard Dawson. Porch or patio would be better. Be especially careful around the vulnerable.

I'd factor in heavily whether you've been smart there in Florida, the amount of disease in your community, the chance you've picked it up recently, how you're traveling.

Lots of gray areas. I can easily see how someone like Neo and family could make this work responsibly (making quite a few assumptions here, including that Neo believes in social responsibility as much as he believes in personal assumption of risk). The problem from a public policy point of view is that you can't count on most people to make it work using only common sense. Nuance doesn't work as well as a hammer.

Are there really no rules of quarantine posted anywhere on NY's site?

Edited June 25, 2020 by PASabreFan

[PASabreFan]

I realize you could drive Crosschecking's truck through my rules of quarantine. I think there should be a difference in what quarantine looks like for someone traveling from another state and for someone who just got told he or she has been in close contact with someone with Covid-19.

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

I am happy to see Federalists being born!

My inquiry was to learn NYS’s wishes in order to be respectful.  I can’t wait to see the “figured out” version.  There will never be one.  There can never be one.   BUILD THAT WALL, BUILD THAT WALL!  Oh, the ironies.   Xenophobes,  I say.  icrackmeup.

I am inspired, so further to the mention of things playing themselves out with different states and different choices.  Someone once mentioned federal pandemic bailouts in the context of states not paying their fair share.   I’ll stay home.  NYS can fund its losses.  Am I following along?  If you want my earnings, I get to have a Ted’s Hot Dog.

The difference between a New Yorker and a Floridian matters not to me in this circumstance.  The duty to be  courteous doesn’t wax or wane situationally or geographically.  How you define courtesy varies person to person, state boarders being irrelevant.  There is no self appointed spokesperson I recognize on behalf of NYS.  I am not a spokesperson for Florida.   In the words of the great philosopher, “a man’s gotta recognize his limitations.”

I felt no “Floridian” pride when more people were dying elsewhere.   I didn’t look to Tallahassee and see anyone who was a super-competent manager.  New York wasn’t dumber two months ago and it isn’t smarter, today.

There is a fascinating conversation to be had.  It’s about human nature, assumption of risk, communal living and utility.   There are three hundred and thirty million views in the US.  Most are modified by the hour.  I don’t look to Albany, or Tallahassee, or Washington with any more confidence than I look into the mirror.  I certainly haven’t been inspired by anyone in those cities during the pandemic.  I understand the “my guy got it right, your guy got it wrong” tribal instincts.  I understand those instincts like I understand a wart or a rash.

There are New Yorkers who don’t want me to visit.  There are New Yorkers, with equal standing and bona fides, who do want me to visit.  Good conversations to have unencumbered by tribalism and parochialism.  Who here claims to be expert enough to advise?  I am not.

Now, lastly, and with no cynicism, snark or rhetorical flourish ....  my NYS family includes my closest kin across four generations.  My wife is there and has been for weeks.  The difference in pandemic lifestyle, and point of view, is remarkable to me as we describe daily events.  Perhaps this is a great Federalist moment.

Like I showed up thread, I live in one of the darkest counties of one of the darkest states. My niece was proxy for seven (maybe more by now) families that could not hold their loved one’s hand as they passed away. I didn’t go home when my sister passed to be with my mom because I didn’t want potentially bring it to WNY.

It really wasn’t much of a sacrifice. I mean, I absolutely could have just said, “Darn it! I’m goin’, because Ya know, ‘Murica!” And I would have had a great excuse. I figured saving lives was more important.

Now is not the time for politics. In fact, the people playing politics with this are making it worse for us all.

[PASabreFan]

Damn it, where are the quick, accurate point of care tests for everyone, not just the White House? It would be game-changing. Do others countries have them?

Dr. Fauci suggested it would be until the end of the year, beginning of next year until we have them.

We'll have a vaccine before we get our ***** together on testing.

[LGR4GM]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

Damn it, where are the quick, accurate point of care tests for everyone, not just the White House? It would be game-changing. Do others countries have them?

Dr. Fauci suggested it would be until the end of the year, beginning of next year until we have them.

We'll have a vaccine before we get our ***** together on testing.

That's what happens when America's "individualism" and "anti-intellectualism" meet up to form what we are seeing across the country. 

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

That's what happens when America's "individualism" and "anti-intellectualism" meet up to form what we are seeing across the country. 

I don't know if that's the reason we don't have widespread point of care tests. It might be that we can't produce that many tests. But we don't even have that kind of testing capability for nursing homes yet. We're still working on getting resident and staff tested once, waiting days for results.

Unless you are arguing that the powers that be figure that if the people don't care about testing, why bother?

[Eleven]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Damn it, where are the quick, accurate point of care tests for everyone, not just the White House?

I believe Major League Baseball took the rest of them.

[LGR4GM]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

I don't know if that's the reason we don't have widespread point of care tests. It might be that we can't produce that many tests. But we don't even have that kind of testing capability for nursing homes yet. We're still working on getting resident and staff tested once, waiting days for results.

Unless you are arguing that the powers that be figure that if the people don't care about testing, why bother?

I am arguing that if we had enacted a federal policy long ago we would be able to test where we needed with available tests and contract trace. We could have people quarantine and actually be seeing the reduction we have in NY currently, everywhere. Instead we have ppl claiming individual freedom is more important and that science is bad/wrong/stupid.

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am arguing that if we had enacted a federal policy long ago we would be able to test where we needed with available tests and contract trace. We could have people quarantine and actually be seeing the reduction we have in NY currently, everywhere. Instead we have ppl claiming individual freedom is more important and that science is bad/wrong/stupid.

Agree. I guess I need to look into these point of care tests a little more.

Here's an interesting article about issues with accuracy:

https://khn.org/news/abbott-rapid-test-problems-grow-fda-standards-on-covid-tests-under-fire/

[nfreeman]

Serious question:  is anyone here not able to get tested pretty quickly and easily?  I'm in a small town in upstate NY and can drive 15 min to a walk-in care center where  I can get a virus test and an antibodies test with no appointment, with the results on the virus test delivered within a couple of hours and on the antibodies within 24 hours.

If that is the case for most people (which I think it is at this point in most places in the US), why not just get tested before taking a trip/visiting relatives/other events?

[PASabreFan]

I think NY has done a good job on testing. In fact the governor said a few weeks ago there were excess tests and anyone who wanted one should go get one. Not the case in my part of PA. It's still symptomatic testing only. I got a test at a nursing home where I work as part of universal facility testing, but the results were to be available only within five business days, plenty of time for infection to spread. That was over a week ago, and I haven't heard any result. I'm now assuming only positive results would be communicated.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

Serious question:  is anyone here not able to get tested pretty quickly and easily?  I'm in a small town in upstate NY and can drive 15 min to a walk-in care center where  I can get a virus test and an antibodies test with no appointment, with the results on the virus test delivered within a couple of hours and on the antibodies within 24 hours.

If that is the case for most people (which I think it is at this point in most places in the US), why not just get tested before taking a trip/visiting relatives/other events?

My wife just went through the process last week.  Small town in WNY.  5 days for results.

You say you can get results in a couple of hours.  Has that been tested?  IOW, did you or someone close to you go there and get results that quickly?  Or is it just a statement out there?  Because supposedly around here we can get results overnight, but the hospital won’t test you without multiple specific symptoms and urgent care is 5 days for results.

Edited June 25, 2020 by Weave

[JujuFish]

My test here in NH took about 36 hours to get the results.

[Ogre]

I don’t think it should be a matter of politics at this point. It’s never been about my state is better than your state (which some have suggested by using the term tribalism to explain the situation).  For me it’s about protecting the hard work done by the people that live here and want to protect their fledgling economy. 
 

There should also be no doubt in a person’s mind as to what a quarantine is. Ask Typhoid Mary. 

The mask debate shackles my belief in humankind. I really want to go there yet.....

And now Texas is reaching ICU capacity.

 

 

[Eleven]

40 minutes ago, Ogre said:

I don’t think it should be a matter of politics at this point. It’s never been about my state is better than your state

It isn't about politics, or which state is better, but it has been about "we don't want people from your state; please stay home" since at least mid-March.  Again, not enforceable, just a reasonable request of people from states where the virus is exploding now, as it was here then.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Eleven

[#freejame]

A friends roommate invited her friends down from NY. One of them brought it down and now not only is her whole household infected, my group of friends are also infected from a kayak trip we had taken while we were in town. I was never within more than six feet of the NYers and even then it was very limited and outdoors. 
 

I will continue to believe it’s clowns from infected states bringing the virus to South Carolina until I am proven otherwise. All anecdotal evidence points to this being the case. It’s crazy how everything was fine until all the out-of-towners started showing up. Just wish I had re-upped on the Devil’s Lettuce before testing positive...here’s to having a reserve of wine and Jameson.