2020 Off-season gameplan

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

9 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I know the board threw the idea around last year but would Turris be a good stop gap 2C for a couple of years until Cozens is ready?  Turris could always drop to 3C after that.  He is expensive at $6 AAV but maybe Nashville retains some salary to unload him and Sabres would not have to give up much to get him. Nashville is still loaded at center with Johansen, Duchene, and Bonino as top 3 centers. 

I think we could get Turris ($1million retained) and a third rd pick for Pilut and 4th rd pick.  Pilut may nix KHL contract if he knows he will be on NHL roster.  Nashville also has fellow country man in Lindholm on defense.

When deciding who will be a "place-holder" until Cozens is ready, shouldn't we also be considering that player as a possible "mentor"? Someone who can set an example for him and plays the style you hope Cozens will be for us. This should be in the talks of any 2C that we bring in, IMO.

[GASabresIUFAN]

10 hours ago, sweetlou said:

I know the board threw the idea around last year but would Turris be a good stop gap 2C for a couple of years until Cozens is ready?  Turris could always drop to 3C after that.  He is expensive at $6 AAV but maybe Nashville retains some salary to unload him and Sabres would not have to give up much to get him. Nashville is still loaded at center with Johansen, Duchene, and Bonino as top 3 centers. 

I think we could get Turris ($1million retained) and a third rd pick for Pilut and 4th rd pick.  Pilut may nix KHL contract if he knows he will be on NHL roster.  Nashville also has fellow country man in Lindholm on defense.

I think the actual discussion was working a deal to trade our bad contract (KO) for their bad contract, Turris, to shore up the 3C position, kill penalties and win faceoffs.  He was never considered that I remember as a possible 2C bridge candidate.

If Larsson walks I would be still be interested in a Turris for KO deal.

KO is owed 3 more years at 6 per season and is 32.  Turris has 4 years left at 6.0 per season and is 30.  I'd be willing to take on the extra year of Turris' deal to get a younger player with a skill set we could use, but only is Larry walks.

Edited July 14, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Sabre fan]

just researched and found that if we buy out Okposo we save 2 Million next season, one mill, and three mill on cap hit. The next 3 seasons after that we'd have just a one mill hit... what with all the uncertainty of what team will be able to afford to sign what players that many are headed towards UFA would the money saved not be better spent on a player who can actually contribute and actually score once in a while (I love KYle and his passion but he has scored a grand total of 23 goals total in the last 2 seasons combined) I hate buyouts as they linger on for in this case 6 years (which is absurd) but 3 more years at 6 mill per is also absurd...

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Sabre fan said:

just researched and found that if we buy out Okposo we save 2 Million next season, one mill, and three mill on cap hit. The next 3 seasons after that we'd have just a one mill hit... what with all the uncertainty of what team will be able to afford to sign what players that many are headed towards UFA would the money saved not be better spent on a player who can actually contribute and actually score once in a while (I love KYle and his passion but he has scored a grand total of 23 goals total in the last 2 seasons combined) I hate buyouts as they linger on for in this case 6 years (which is absurd) but 3 more years at 6 mill per is also absurd...

Okposo does contribute. He just doesn't score like he once did. I don't think buying him out makes sense considering you aren't just taking that 1 mil hit. You are also spending another 1 mil or more to replace him. He is one of 2 nhl right wings in the roster. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

FYI  - 

Key RFAs Q-offers according to capfriendly.com

Kahun - $874,125  (1.05 * base of 832,500), but has Arbitration rights

Lazar - 735,000 (1.05 * 700K), but has Arbitration rights

Mittelstadt - $874,125  (1.05 * base of 832,500)

Montour - $3,525,000 (100% of last year), but has Arbitration rights

Olofsson - $735,000 (1.05 * base of 700K), but has Arbitration rights

Reinhart - $3,750,000, but has Arbitration rights

Thompson - $874,125

Ullmark - $1,325,000, but has Arbitration rights

As you can see most of our guys have arbitration rights.  It could be a very long summer and fall for our rookie GM.

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Okposo does contribute. He just doesn't score like he once did. I don't think buying him out makes sense considering you aren't just taking that 1 mil hit. You are also spending another 1 mil or more to replace him. He is one of 2 nhl right wings in the roster. 

Correct, except Kahun is an NHL RW.  He can play center and LW, but he played RW for us last season and in Pit as well. That makes 3 NHL RWs.  I also wouldn't buy out KO at this point.  

Edited July 14, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[SwampD]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Okposo does contribute. He just doesn't score like he once did. I don't think buying him out makes sense considering you aren't just taking that 1 mil hit. You are also spending another 1 mil or more to replace him. He is one of 2 nhl right wings in the roster. 

Some nights, he looks like the only one.

[SABRES 0311]

[Weave]

Super Frolik?  Were we his kryptonite?

[GASabresIUFAN]

Broader question,  If Covid is still a big problem comes fall, how many Euro players could elect to play in their home leagues rather then return to the NHL?  

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Broader question,  If Covid is still a big problem comes fall, how many Euro players could elect to play in their home leagues rather then return to the NHL?  

Pretty much any that aren't under contract.  The Euro leagues & the NHL (through the IIHF) have agreements in place to honor the contracts of the players on both sides of the pond.  So, guys under contract can't leave.

How many will?  No data.  Doubt it will be that many unless the NHL decides to skip '20-'21.

[Thorny]

On 7/13/2020 at 6:02 PM, Taro T said:

It's doubtful the team will be pushing as close to the cap this season as they were last year even with Okposo's salary on the books.

Speaking of which, Chad had another great piece on a hypothetical way to mould this roster into something competitive, should the Pegulas look to cut player salaries and not spend to the cap:

 

...it may not all be necessarily feasible but it’s realistic and, more importantly, it’s nice to know a cut in spending is no death knell and no excuse to not improve significantly. 

 

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Speaking of which, Chad had another great piece on a hypothetical way to mould this roster into something competitive, should the Pegulas look to cut player salaries and not spend to the cap:

 

...it may not all be necessarily feasible but it’s realistic and, more importantly, it’s nice to know a cut in spending is no death knell and no excuse to not improve significantly. 

 

The forward lineup is better. I don’t get the armchair GMs who trade both Risto and Montour.

Im not sure how removing the two defencemen Ralph trusted most last year improves the defence.

[Thorny]

24 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The forward lineup is better. I don’t get the armchair GMs who trade both Risto and Montour.

Im not sure how removing the two defencemen Ralph trusted most last year improves the defence.

Probably comes down to how much one thinks Ralph was right to trust them as much as he did. Their metrics aren’t pretty. 

The most I’d concede is that, perhaps Ralph felt any other D men having that trust would have resulted in even worse results for those players, and that Risto and Montour achieved some sort of “relative good” that would be actual good on a better team. And Ralph thought there was no way to adapt the team’s strategy to make things work better for them, or something.

It’s possible, but their now rather large bodies of work don’t inspire confidence in me. I think Risto can be a capable 2nd pair D man, but if we aren’t ever going to put him in that role, we should trade him, particularly when it’s crucial we upgrade the forwards. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[Broken Ankles]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Speaking of which, Chad had another great piece on a hypothetical way to mould this roster into something competitive, should the Pegulas look to cut player salaries and not spend to the cap:

 

...it may not all be necessarily feasible but it’s realistic and, more importantly, it’s nice to know a cut in spending is no death knell and no excuse to not improve significantly. 

 

I don't usually like Chads suggestions but his logic is solid.  Especially if they are not spending to the cap.  Unlike Duda, I'm in the camp for trading both D.  I think moderately priced Right handed D will yield a premium this off-season.  Only disagreement is the Talbot signing. I prefer a buyout of Carter Hutton and allocate a little extra dinero to maybe Holtby.    If no teams are offering long term deals, perhaps he takes a 1 year $5M offer. 

[dudacek]

27 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Probably comes down to how much one thinks Ralph was right to trust them as much as he did. Their metrics aren’t pretty. 

The counting stats on both were pretty good, and against the toughest competition. And I think their metrics are largely the result of being weighed down by ineffective forwards not helping them out with shots, chances and sustained time in the offensive zone.

I think that when Dahlin slides into his birthright as a number one they both slot nicely as our top two right-side D. Joki Probably makes one of them redundant as soon as this year, but not both. I like Miller a lot as a 5, but he is not a guy I want long-term in my top four

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

The counting stats on both were pretty good, and against the toughest competition. And I think their metrics are largely the result of being weighed down by ineffective forwards not helping them out with shots, chances and sustained time in the offensive zone.

I think that when Dahlin slides into his birthright as a number one they both slot nicely as our top two right-side D. Joki Probably makes one of them redundant as soon as this year, but not both. I like Miller a lot as a 5, but he is not a guy I want long-term in my top four

I actually prefer both Joki and Miller as fits with Dahlin. Neither Risto nor Montour is a first pair talent on their own, so I’d go to the players I feel compliment Dahlin best. 

If we can play Risto on the second pair, with less ice time than we are now, I’m on board. No way I want either of the 2 logging the minutes Dahlin should command. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Speaking of which, Chad had another great piece on a hypothetical way to mould this roster into something competitive, should the Pegulas look to cut player salaries and not spend to the cap:

 

...it may not all be necessarily feasible but it’s realistic and, more importantly, it’s nice to know a cut in spending is no death knell and no excuse to not improve significantly. 

 

If the Sabres go to camp with that lineup the pitchforks and torches crowd will be out in full force.  And I'll be with them.

Risto, Montour and Mitts for a 26-point center, a failing prospect and a couple of defensemen?  No thank you.

They need a couple of no-BS producers of offense.  CDD's proposals do not deliver even one.

[dudacek]

Semi-related, at what contract level do we have interest in TJ Brodie to be our 2LD? He’s of a similar level to Montour, but a better fit, and it allows us to flip Montour for help up front.

I like the idea of this lineup if Joki and Little Ras mature as most of us expect:

Dahlin Jokiharju

Brodie Risto

McCabe Miller

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

If the Sabres go to camp with that lineup the pitchforks and torches crowd will be out in full force.  And I'll be with them.

Risto, Montour and Mitts for a 26-point center, a failing prospect and a couple of defensemen?  No thank you.

They need a couple of no-BS producers of offense.  CDD's proposals do not deliver even one.

I mean, Beauvillier played at a 47 point pace last season, his point total good for 4th on this roster. He did that at 22. Is he the failing prospect?

Copp is a solid 2-way (ACTUALLY CENTRE ICE PLAYING) centre who is probably ready for a larger role than he played in Winnipeg. To me, a reasonable stop gap. And a player of the type Skinner has had success with.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[dudacek]

Just now, Thorny said:

I mean, Beauvillier played at a 47 point pace last season, his point total good for 4th on this roster. He did that at 22. Is he the failing prospect?

Beauvillier’s a player. I think he’s talking Borgstrom.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Beauvillier’s a player. I think he’s talking Borgstrom.

 Maybe @nfreeman missed him

The proposal also adds a capable back up goalie. And leaves 7 mil in space. 

Botterill would do worse lol. Adams very well also could do worse.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[nfreeman]

7 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I mean, Beauvillier played at a 47 point pace last season, his point total good for 4th on this roster. He did that at 22. Is he the failing prospect?

Copp is a solid 2-way (ACTUALLY CENTRE ICE PLAYING) centre who is probably ready for a larger role than he played in Winnipeg. To me, a reasonable stop gap. And a player of the type Skinner has had success with.

 

3 minutes ago, Thorny said:

 Maybe @nfreeman missed him

The proposal also adds a capable back up goalie. And leaves 7 mil in space. 

Botterill would do worse lol

You are right that I glossed over Beauvillier.  But he's a LW, which is the only forward position where the Sabres don't need help.

Copp is indeed a solid 2-way guy, but he played 17:42 per game last year -- how much would his role realistically increase with the Sabres?

@dudacek is right that I was referring to Borgstrom.

Yes please on a new goalie.

[dudacek]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I mean, Beauvillier played at a 47 point pace last season, his point total good for 4th on this roster. He did that at 22. Is he the failing prospect?

Copp is a solid 2-way (ACTUALLY CENTRE ICE PLAYING) centre who is probably ready for a larger role than he played in Winnipeg. To me, a reasonable stop gap. And a player of the type Skinner has had success with.

It’s the truth of your last sentence that got my attention. I hated the Florida trade, but Copp is a good long-term 3C, who could take 2C minutes because of his dependability and the way I think he’d mesh with Skinner while Cozens percolates.
I think Montour is a better hockey player, and I’d like to see the Jets add, but the concept works in the cost-conscious context.

(unrelated side note on Chad. Taking Lundell over a Perfetti would be a travesty, especially when you just grabbed Copp to be your long-term 3C)

[Thorny]

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

 

You are right that I glossed over Beauvillier.  But he's a LW, which is the only forward position where the Sabres don't need help.

Copp is indeed a solid 2-way guy, but he played 17:42 per game last year -- how much would his role realistically increase with the Sabres?

@dudacek is right that I was referring to Borgstrom.

Yes please on a new goalie.

It’s hardly the ideal offseason, but there are positives in that lineup of the “realistically finds success in that role” variety, of the type Botterill was allergic to in his tenure. 

Copp WILL be a responsible centre ice-man that Krueger could rely on in many situations. If he meshes with Skinner we are in business. The ceiling isn’t high but his floor is. Insulates Cozens to a certainty and mitigates the loss of a Larsson.

It should be mentioned that Copp would represent a C better than any Botterill added in his entire tenture. All before Adams’ team plays one game.

And last year Copp was pacing offensively for production roughly double Johan’s best year. Beauvellier can provide some offensive pop in a sheltered offensive role with Cozens (an offensively sheltered role for Cozens with reasonable expectations, novel for this team, I know), and could hopefully also provide a boost to our anemic 2nd PP unit.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Thorny

[Thorny]

22 minutes ago, dudacek said:

It’s the truth of your last sentence that got my attention. I hated the Florida trade, but Copp is a good long-term 3C, who could take 2C minutes because of his dependability and the way I think he’d mesh with Skinner while Cozens percolates.
I think Montour is a better hockey player, and I’d like to see the Jets add, but the concept works in the cost-conscious context.

(unrelated side note on Chad. Taking Lundell over a Perfetti would be a travesty, especially when you just grabbed Copp to be your long-term 3C)

The allure with Lundell lies for him and others I believe with his projected floor. It’s coming up a lot more now, the value that maybe should be placed on that certainty as opposed to weighting the ceiling with more prominence. The odds that Cozens and Lundell, behind Eichel, solidify the C ice position, long term, is very high. 

We are probably laughing in a few years with that C depth. Perfetti could easily end up on the wing, from what I’ve read.  Is this spine not an absolute nightmare for opposing teams to play against? 

Eichel

Cozens

Lundell

Copp

We’re laughing. 

And it’s not a hope, it’d be likely - that’s the rub. If Cozens, Lundell, and Copp are also banking less empty-calorie points along the way, we also potentially save on spending on future contracts, as points have always broken the bank before two-way ability. 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Thorny