2020 Off-season gameplan

[Thorny]

On 6/16/2020 at 11:39 AM, Weave said:

Buffalo News has an interview with Ralph.  He likes role players over talent.  

What?

On 6/16/2020 at 8:39 PM, GASabresIUFAN said:

One year is fine also

Too risky. He can simply choose arbitration and walk himself to UFA. Sign him this offseason for LT or trade him. 

[thewookie1]

Trade McCabe for our 3rd and a 2020 3rd with the Rangers

Trade Risto to CGY for Bennett, their 2nd in 20 and their 4th in 22

Trade Montour to ARI for a protected 1st in 21 and a 6th in 20

Trade Pilut's rights for a 4th in 20 from NJ

Trade Thompson and the CGY 2nd to Carolina for Haydn Fleury and a 5th

Offersheet Cirelli at 5 years 6 mil per

Sign Edmundson at 4x4mil, Hamhuis at 1x1.3mil, McKegg at 1x1mil

Resign Reinhart 5x6.2mil, Olofsson 4x3.6mil, Ullmark 3x3mil, Kahun 3x2.4mil, Fleury gets 2x1.5mil, Lazar 1x950k, Larsson at 3x3mil

 

Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart

Olofsson-Cirelli-Kahun

Johansson-Cozens-Bennett

Asplund-Larsson-Okposo

 

Dahlin-Miller

Edmundson-Jokiharju

Fleury - Borgen

 

Ullmark

Hutton

 

Subs:

Lazar, Hamhuis, McKegg

 

Even with a 1.25mil cap penalty we still have 3.2mil in cap space

[dudacek]

39 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

 

Even with a 1.25mil cap penalty we still have 3.2mil in cap space

And a thoroughly gutted defence core

[Taro T]

Just now, dudacek said:

And a thoroughly gutted defence core

That's ok.  Botterill will build it back ... up?

Ooops.  Never mind.  ?

[sabresparaavida]

1 hour ago, thewookie1 said:

Trade McCabe for our 3rd and a 2020 3rd with the Rangers

Trade Risto to CGY for Bennett, their 2nd in 20 and their 4th in 22

Trade Montour to ARI for a protected 1st in 21 and a 6th in 20

Trade Pilut's rights for a 4th in 20 from NJ

Trade Thompson and the CGY 2nd to Carolina for Haydn Fleury and a 5th

Offersheet Cirelli at 5 years 6 mil per

Sign Edmundson at 4x4mil, Hamhuis at 1x1.3mil, McKegg at 1x1mil

Resign Reinhart 5x6.2mil, Olofsson 4x3.6mil, Ullmark 3x3mil, Kahun 3x2.4mil, Fleury gets 2x1.5mil, Lazar 1x950k, Larsson at 3x3mil

 

Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart

Olofsson-Cirelli-Kahun

Johansson-Cozens-Bennett

Asplund-Larsson-Okposo

 

Dahlin-Miller

Edmundson-Jokiharju

Fleury - Borgen

 

Ullmark

Hutton

 

Subs:

Lazar, Hamhuis, McKegg

 

Even with a 1.25mil cap penalty we still have 3.2mil in cap space

Honestly, I don't see this lineup as much better than last year's. Our defense got much worse so that we could upgrade 1 spot.

[Drag0nDan]

On 6/24/2020 at 8:26 PM, thewookie1 said:

Trade McCabe for our 3rd and a 2020 3rd with the Rangers

Trade Risto to CGY for Bennett, their 2nd in 20 and their 4th in 22

Trade Montour to ARI for a protected 1st in 21 and a 6th in 20

Trade Pilut's rights for a 4th in 20 from NJ

Trade Thompson and the CGY 2nd to Carolina for Haydn Fleury and a 5th

Offersheet Cirelli at 5 years 6 mil per

Sign Edmundson at 4x4mil, Hamhuis at 1x1.3mil, McKegg at 1x1mil

Resign Reinhart 5x6.2mil, Olofsson 4x3.6mil, Ullmark 3x3mil, Kahun 3x2.4mil, Fleury gets 2x1.5mil, Lazar 1x950k, Larsson at 3x3mil

 

Skinner-Eichel-Reinhart

Olofsson-Cirelli-Kahun

Johansson-Cozens-Bennett

Asplund-Larsson-Okposo

 

Dahlin-Miller

Edmundson-Jokiharju

Fleury - Borgen

 

Ullmark

Hutton

 

Subs:

Lazar, Hamhuis, McKegg

 

Even with a 1.25mil cap penalty we still have 3.2mil in cap space

Why is someone signing an offer sheet to come to buffalo?

Why are all the RFA's signing below market deals?  

[thewookie1]

7 hours ago, Drag0nDan said:

Why is someone signing an offer sheet to come to buffalo?

Why are all the RFA's signing below market deals?  

Why not, money is money and Tampa can't pay everyone.

Which ones exactly?

Reinhart at 5/6 years should be between 6 and 7 mil

Olofsson at 3/4 years should be between 3 and 4 mil

Kahun isn't making anything over 2.85mil

Ullmark is good but nowhere near great at this time hence the 3x3mil, if he wants 2x3mil I'd accept that too

Haydn Fleury is the only one I don't have a clue about so I gave him a pay raise for 2 years.

[Drag0nDan]

On 6/26/2020 at 9:51 PM, thewookie1 said:

Why not, money is money and Tampa can't pay everyone.

Which ones exactly?

Reinhart at 5/6 years should be between 6 and 7 mil

Olofsson at 3/4 years should be between 3 and 4 mil

Kahun isn't making anything over 2.85mil

Ullmark is good but nowhere near great at this time hence the 3x3mil, if he wants 2x3mil I'd accept that too

Haydn Fleury is the only one I don't have a clue about so I gave him a pay raise for 2 years.

Money is money sure - but this is hands down the worst organization to play for at the moment.  Tampa bay would likely just trade him.

I think reinharts number will be north of 7 if he's giving up UFA years.  Olofsson is kinda in the same boat - will want more than he probably gets slotted.

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

I hate to keep beating this horse, but there is only one move that really means anything this summer and will send a message to Jack, the team and the fans that this new regime is serious about winning.  That move is acquiring a 2C.  

Jbot is gone because he never replaced ROR.  He also never gave the team mid season material support.  Getting Montour and Kahun at the deadlines was to little to late.

Jack is sick of losing and is rightfully frustrated that he has zero support driving the offense.  Mitts, Cozens, Rossi etc could eventually be the help that takes us from playoff contender to Cup contender as they mature, but Jack needs a proven 2C.  Any other move is meaningless.

Make TB an offer sheet for Cirelli.  Make a deal to get Strome, Henrique or Tyler Johnson.  Do you think Colorado might make Kadri (M-NTC) available?  the Avs need a RD and have RFAs Zadorov, Jost and Burkaovksy to re-sign and have 69 mill already invested in only 14 players (including 4.5 to Kadri).   Would Namestnikov (UFA) be an interesting stopgap for a year or two?  How about Mitts for Kadri straight up?

 

[Andrew Amerk]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I hate to keep beating this horse, but there is only one move that really means anything this summer and will send a message to Jack, the team and the fans that this new regime is serious about winning.  That move is acquiring a 2C.  

Jbot is gone because he never replaced ROR.  He also never gave the team mid season material support.  Getting Montour and Kahun at the deadlines was to little to late.

Jack is sick of losing and is rightfully frustrated that he has zero support driving the offense.  Mitts, Cozens, Rossi etc could eventually be the help that takes us from playoff contender to Cup contender as they mature, but Jack needs a proven 2C.  Any other move is meaningless.

Make TB an offer sheet for Cirelli.  Make a deal to get Strome, Henrique or Tyler Johnson.  Do you think Colorado might make Kadri (M-NTC) available?  the Avs need a RD and have RFAs Zadorov, Jost and Burkaovksy to re-sign and have 69 mill already invested in only 14 players (including 4.5 to Kadri).   Would Namestnikov (UFA) be an interesting stopgap for a year or two?  How about Mitts for Kadri straight up?

 

Just do what needs to be done to get Cirelli. 
 

That’s all.  

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Just do what needs to be done to get Cirelli. 
 

That’s all.  

As much as that is the dream acquisition the odds are stacked against it.  

[Andrew Amerk]

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As much as that is the dream acquisition the odds are stacked against it.  

TBL can’t keep everyone. 
 

Offer them Risto/Montour/Miller/McCabe + a pick + Mitts/ Asplund/ Pekar. Whatever gets it done. Time to stop overthinking it and get talent in here. 
 

As much as I appreciate the Hail Marys on Moulson, Leino, Johansson, Sheary, Frolik, Berglund, Sobotka, Vesey, Kahun and whoever else, it’s time to acquire actual talent. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Andrew Amerk

[freester]

2 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

TBL can’t keep everyone. 
 

Offer them Risto/Montour/Miller/McCabe + a pick + Mitts/ Asplund/ Pekar. Whatever gets it done. Time to stop overthinking it and get talent in here. 

I think Tampa only wants picks and prospects and entry level deals. They can’t take on salary. 

[Andrew Amerk]

1 minute ago, freester said:

I think Tampa only wants picks and prospects and entry level deals. They can’t take on salary. 

That’s what I’d figure. So give them a cheaper D man, a pick, and a prospect. Miller, Mitts, a pick. 

[freester]

1 minute ago, Andrew Amerk said:

That’s what I’d figure. So give them a cheaper D man, a pick, and a prospect. Miller, Mitts, a pick. 

More like Ryan Johnson, Mitts 2021 1st

[GASabresIUFAN]

11 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

TBL can’t keep everyone. 
 

Offer them Risto/Montour/Miller/McCabe + a pick + Mitts/ Asplund/ Pekar. Whatever gets it done. Time to stop overthinking it and get talent in here. 
 

As much as I appreciate the Hail Marys on Moulson, Leino, Johansson, Sheary, Frolik, Berglund, Sobotka, Vesey, Kahun and whoever else, it’s time to acquire actual talent. 

 

7 minutes ago, freester said:

I think Tampa only wants picks and prospects and entry level deals. They can’t take on salary. 

You can’t destroy your organization to get one player.  This was the TM approach and it gutted our pipeline especially on D.  
 

As much as I like Cirelli, we need mostly need a bridge until Mitts, Cozens or Rossi/Perfetti are ready.  That is a much cheaper and more likely scenario.  If we really want to make a run at Cirelli try the offer sheet route otherwise it ain’t happening. Honestly TB is going to get 20 offers for him. Sending him to someone in the division is highly unlikely without an offersheet.  Getting to sign an offer from us is probably just as unlikely.

Edited June 30, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

You can’t destroy your organization to get one player.  This was the TM approach and it gutted our pipeline especially on D.  
 

As much as I like Cirelli, we need mostly need a bridge until Mitts, Cozens or Rossi/Perfetti are ready.  That is a much cheaper and more likely scenario.  If we really want to make a run at Cirelli try the offer sheet route otherwise it ain’t happening. Honestly TB is going to get 20 offers for him. Sending him to someone in the division is highly unlikely without an offersheet.  Getting to sign an offer from us is probably just as unlikely.

No, it was not. 

Unless you are talking about the Tank. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[Weave]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

No, it was not. 

As of it hasn’t been laid out plainly enough times....

[Thorny]

7 minutes ago, Weave said:

As of it hasn’t been laid out plainly enough times....

It's just...he didn't gut anything. There's an argument to be made he made deals at the wrong time, but bringing in actual talent for futures is a viable form of team building and people are taking Murray's overall failure and, ignoring the perhaps problematic context of when he made the moves, choosing to proclaim futures for currents deals as "organization destroying maneuvers". 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[Andrew Amerk]

11 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

You can’t destroy your organization to get one player.  This was the TM approach and it gutted our pipeline especially on D.  
 

As much as I like Cirelli, we need mostly need a bridge until Mitts, Cozens or Rossi/Perfetti are ready.  That is a much cheaper and more likely scenario.  If we really want to make a run at Cirelli try the offer sheet route otherwise it ain’t happening. Honestly TB is going to get 20 offers for him. Sending him to someone in the division is highly unlikely without an offersheet.  Getting to sign an offer from us is probably just as unlikely.

Sorry but giving up one of our D plus a player like Mitts who isn’t gonna make it anyways, and an unknown pick isn’t going to “gut” our team. 
 

Our team already doesn’t have enough “guts,” which is why we need a player like Cirelli. 

[LGR4GM]

You cannot move both Reinhart and Skinner away from Eichel. 1 or both needs to stay on that line. It's crazy to think Eichel will be fine carrying olofsson and a rookie around facing top d and forwards. Olofsson doesn't have the defense and a rookie is a rookie. 

[nfreeman]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:It's just...he didn't gut anything. There's an argument to be made he made deals at the wrong time, but bringing in actual talent for futures is a viable form of team building and people are taking Murray's overall failure and, ignoring the perhaps problematic context of when he made the moves, choosing to proclaim futures for currents deals as "organization destroying maneuvers". 

I don’t have any quarrel with the Kane or ROR trades by GMTM.  He paid high prices in both trades but got the best player in both too. 

He overpaid for Lehner, not egregiously, but somewhat, although no one would’ve complained if he’d turned into what GMTM thought he was getting — which means, to be fair, that GMTM whiffed on Lehner. 

He well overpaid for Hudson Fasching.  That might’ve been his worst trade.

I’m not a Pysyk fan, but he overpaid for Kulikov too.  And the KO and Moulson contracts were both debacles.

I’m probably missing a couple of trades but I generally agree that the narrative is somewhat overblown.  Still, it’s fair to hold him accountable for turning a bunch of good assets into not much in end results.

 

 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You cannot move both Reinhart and Skinner away from Eichel. 1 or both needs to stay on that line. It's crazy to think Eichel will be fine carrying olofsson and a rookie around facing top d and forwards. Olofsson doesn't have the defense and a rookie is a rookie. 

To me, it's the lesser of two weevils, if Cozens is forced into the 2C role. I'd give Cozens both the top wingers. Obviously, neither situation is at all desirable. In the situation I mentioned where Cozens was top line RW with Jack, that was in an imaginary scenario where Cozens had already actually proven himself ready in his rookie year, therefore it would be a viable line. 

[Thorny]

11 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I don’t have any quarrel with the Kane or ROR trades by GMTM.  He paid high prices in both trades but got the best player in both too. 

He overpaid for Lehner, not egregiously, but somewhat, although no one would’ve complained if he’d turned into what GMTM thought he was getting — which means, to be fair, that GMTM whiffed on Lehner. 

He well overpaid for Hudson Fasching.  That might’ve been his worst trade.

I’m not a Pysyk fan, but he overpaid for Kulikov too.  And the KO and Moulson contracts were both debacles.

I’m probably missing a couple of trades but I generally agree that the narrative is somewhat overblown.  Still, it’s fair to hold him accountable for turning a bunch of good assets into not much in end results.

 

 

The argument I am so opposed to, is the idea that: because Murray failed, the types of moves he occasionally made, multiple assets for fewer, are bad ones to make, as a rule. 

That to deal futures now in a package for a real player is somehow torpedoing our future. 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Thorny

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

I don’t have any quarrel with the Kane or ROR trades by GMTM.  He paid high prices in both trades but got the best player in both too. 

He overpaid for Lehner, not egregiously, but somewhat, although no one would’ve complained if he’d turned into what GMTM thought he was getting — which means, to be fair, that GMTM whiffed on Lehner. 

He well overpaid for Hudson Fasching.  That might’ve been his worst trade.

I’m not a Pysyk fan, but he overpaid for Kulikov too.  And the KO and Moulson contracts were both debacles.

I’m probably missing a couple of trades but I generally agree that the narrative is somewhat overblown.  Still, it’s fair to hold him accountable for turning a bunch of good assets into not much in end results.

 

 

The problem of his overpaying for guys he wanted is that Botterill didn't value those guys and ended up with almost nothing for them:

O'Reilly: Thompson & Johnson only pieces that MIGHT be useful.

Lehner: walked for nothing (correct decision based on where he was on his recovery from his demons).

Kane: reasonable haul (can't recall ottomh exact return, but that was ok).

Fasching & Deslauriers: Hickey & Redmond (AHLers)

Kulikov: walked (but they still have Asplund)

That isn't much for everything that had gone out for those assets.  And another fear of why dumping Botterill might not work.  If Adams favors a different style yet, we could see additional pieces go out for pennies on the $.  (But Adams has talked a good game, so hopefully that fear doesn't come to fruition.)

[Edit: forgot 1]Bogosian out for nada as well.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Taro T