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Way Ahead for the Sabres


SABRES 0311

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First off if there is no need for this thread mods please delete.

A 2C is definitely needed as is a new/better goalie to replace Hutton. Thing is I do not believe that solves the problem of winning consistently. At least not to the point we are really contending for the cup. All the king’s men couldn’t put humpty together again. Meaning even if we filled those holes it comes down to on ice actions and team culture. 

The organization needs an experienced GM who has gone through the ups and downs. JBott knew success riding shotgun. He is getting a crash course in failing which will probably make him better but results in his firing. RaKru is not a terrible coach but not the guy for the situation. 

Ive read numerous posts about the state of the team and for the most part I agree with all of you. To put it all together we need a GM with experience and a coach who will do the opposite of be nice. We also need a president. “The right” coach would be snapping sticks on the bench and knocking over tables in the dressing room. “The right” GM would not have made some of the decisions JBot has. He would come in that locker room and join the coach in a hate filled, semi-psychotic, borderline illegal tirade. 

Finally the players. This team has shown the ability to skate with some of the better teams in the league but then lay eggs against bottom feeders. Regardless of management it’s a players job to make things happen. If they can’t, make them sit. You don’t want to play hard then sit. You request a trade, too bad. You sit. You lost your love for the game, you sit and turn your man card in p***y. You have personal problems affecting your play, figure it out like a man and get results on the ice. If applicable don’t be dbag who puts themselves in that position. Management isn’t here to hold your hand. You are replaceable so everyday is a tryout. 

I got weird at the end there but said what I was thinking. Have at it.

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4 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

Regardless of management it’s a players job to make things happen. If they can’t, make them sit. You don’t want to play hard then sit. You request a trade, too bad. You sit. You lost your love for the game, you sit and turn your man card in p***y. You have personal problems affecting your play, figure it out like a man and get results on the ice. If applicable don’t be dbag who puts themselves in that position. Management isn’t here to hold your hand. You are replaceable so everyday is a tryout. 

Mean. They are real people, with real lives. 

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9 minutes ago, SABRES 0311 said:

For those 60 minutes they need to be something more. They chose their path in life and represent a city.

Interesting argument.  On one hand, players "work" only 82 days a year.  On the other hand, they have to be physically ready, which is unlike a "normal" job where you can perform at an adequate level and be competent at less than 100%.  But they are paid handsomely to perform in those 82 games so the patience level is 0.  But they aren't machines.  For me, effort is the determinator.  Just give me an honest effort, regardless of result, and I'm OK.

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You have to start in net.   It's so tough mentally as a player when your goalie is below average.   It's a helpless feeling and I do really believe that if you shore up the goaltender position, improve from say a bottom 5 to top 10 goalie, then the mental state of the entire group will improve and they'll start scoring more as well.

 

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1 hour ago, Tondas said:

 Just give me an honest effort, regardless of result, and I'm OK.

Yup.

1 hour ago, pi2000 said:

You have to start in net.   It's so tough mentally as a player when your goalie is below average.   It's a helpless feeling and I do really believe that if you shore up the goaltender position, improve from say a bottom 5 to top 10 goalie, then the mental state of the entire group will improve and they'll start scoring more as well.

 

You grew up watching Hasek I'm guessing?

A great goalie will help elevate a team no question, but it takes a team to be successful. I've said it before but will repeat it again and again. We have a collection of individuals, we do not have much of a team. This lies at the core of the cultural problem. Break it all down and rebuild it on the Bruins model. That's how it'll work and endure. Start by hiring the alumni from teams that cared as your management/scouting/advisory/public relations core. Let them speak openly. Let them be critical of failure. Hire new broadcasters that call the team to account like Biron finally did. Raise the standard and the expectation and the results will follow in time. Bring back pride

Give you a recent example of the difference. I was watching the Bruins Islanders game earlier today. Bruins were up 2-0 after the first period and the intermission with the Bruins announcers/analysts was spent critiquing how they have to be better at the PP and how the Bruins had to improve that. They were winning. That's a winning culture.

Edited by PerreaultForever
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45 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Yup.

You grew up watching Hasek I'm guessing?

A great goalie will help elevate a team no question, but it takes a team to be successful. I've said it before but will repeat it again and again. We have a collection of individuals, we do not have much of a team. This lies at the core of the cultural problem. Break it all down and rebuild it on the Bruins model. That's how it'll work and endure. Start by hiring the alumni from teams that cared as your management/scouting/advisory/public relations core. Let them speak openly. Let them be critical of failure. Hire new broadcasters that call the team to account like Biron finally did. Raise the standard and the expectation and the results will follow in time. Bring back pride

Give you a recent example of the difference. I was watching the Bruins Islanders game earlier today. Bruins were up 2-0 after the first period and the intermission with the Bruins announcers/analysts was spent critiquing how they have to be better at the PP and how the Bruins had to improve that. They were winning. That's a winning culture.

I find the idea of speaking openly as refreshing. When Patty left everything was hush hush. Obviously he left under less than favorable conditions but Terry didn’t want it coming out. As hard as I am on the players, management needs a better example than that. 

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6 hours ago, Tondas said:

Interesting argument.  On one hand, players "work" only 82 days a year.  On the other hand, they have to be physically ready, which is unlike a "normal" job where you can perform at an adequate level and be competent at less than 100%.  But they are paid handsomely to perform in those 82 games so the patience level is 0.  But they aren't machines.  For me, effort is the determinator.  Just give me an honest effort, regardless of result, and I'm OK.

A lack of consistent effort, period to period and game to game, has been this organizations primary problem for a long time now.

 

 

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6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

You have to start in net.   It's so tough mentally as a player when your goalie is below average.   It's a helpless feeling and I do really believe that if you shore up the goaltender position, improve from say a bottom 5 to top 10 goalie, then the mental state of the entire group will improve and they'll start scoring more as well.

 

Like your thinking here. Goaltending effects teams play more than a #2 center. So, let's do our best to get both.?

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6 hours ago, pi2000 said:

You have to start in net.   It's so tough mentally as a player when your goalie is below average.   It's a helpless feeling and I do really believe that if you shore up the goaltender position, improve from say a bottom 5 to top 10 goalie, then the mental state of the entire group will improve and they'll start scoring more as well.

 

It’s almost like team building 101 since the start of the sport has been to build from your net out. How this organization has forgotten that is beyond me. 

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If the plan is to continue with Hutton and Ullmark next season, then JBOT needs to be fired.

If I'm TP, first order of business is JBOTs plan to fix the goaltending position, next is 2C.

They need to continue to drafting and developing goalies, but in the meantime there has to be a plan to bring in an established veteran goaltender, with starting experience, somebody significantly better than what they have.    Khudobin, Kuemper, Greiss, etc...

 

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I'm not sure what to think anymore.  We've been through so much change since TP bought the team.  We're getting a little better but there's not much that's clear about how we get to being a yearly playoff team for a while.  I'm resigned to thinking we're going to have to get lucky.

 

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An upgrade at goalie definitely needs to happen. Ulmark going down definitely hurt us, but there have been far too many soft goals let in this year. However, we also can't expect every goalie to be Hasek either. Over this season, heck focus just on this roadtrip, there were plays where our defenseman made bone headed plays or where we werent tying up attackers sticks or playing heavy on their body,  leaving forwards wide open & alone with space & hanging the goalie out to dry. There were lazy or misguided passes by our forwards that led to oddman opportunities that RK needs to ask what those players were thinking & then correct it. Hasek was good enough to stop a lot of those chances when our play broke down, but you can't expect that from everyone else... its why he was the Dominator.

We talk about effort. Colin Miller i see is trying. But he's made a ton of bone headed mistakes that have cost our team goals. I heard the other night on the broadcast a comment from RK about how he thinks the guys have finally understood how he wants to play D. Every coach has their own system & it takes time to understand it & get to the point where you dont have to think about what you're doing & you just go out & react & play. Think of how often we've changed coaches/systems. I saw the Bruins mentioned above. They have stability & consistency thruout their organization & it shows on the ice. Whereas we have the total opposite of that & it shows on the ice. A dysfunctional organization will have a dysfunctional team. They go hand in hand.

Unless theres some cant miss great GM out there looking for a job, i think we need to stick with Jbots for this offseason, just to try to have some stabilization of the franchise. But i think we have a golden opportunity to change the culture with the amount of players we can swap out of here. Some of these guys have known nothing but losing. Kahun while young had a taste of a winning organization. Simmonds has as well. Bring a few other guys, goalie/2c, 2RW & another year with the same system & that culture should change by addition & subtraction.

I know everyones frustrated, i am for sure. But unless theres a clear upgrade at GM, blowing this up will cause more harm than good. We're really not that far away. For as much as we suck, we're a non Hutton 1st half of the season, a Skinner who scores 10 more goals, a healthy VO & 2C away from making the playoffs this year. Tage Thompson mightve helped too. (Did i really just say TT?, never mind i take everything i just said back!) haha we're doomed!  Na but really i just dont want TP firing Jbots without a clear plan & upgrade to replace him. IF they had a GM they wanted now then sure maybe, but dont fire him & then look for your guy. You shouldnt quit your job before you already have a new one lined up. You don't move out of your house unless you have a new one lined up. I'd be more comfortable with replacing Jbots if it was because they had a guy in mind, not just because the fan base was riled up. But if we're having this same conversation next year, then yeah get him the $%@! out of here!

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1 minute ago, In The Buff said:

An upgrade at goalie definitely needs to happen. Ulmark going down definitely hurt us, but there have been far too many soft goals let in this year. However, we also can't expect every goalie to be Hasek either. Over this season, heck focus just on this roadtrip, there were plays where our defenseman made bone headed plays or where we werent tying up attackers sticks or playing heavy on their body,  leaving forwards wide open & alone with space & hanging the goalie out to dry. There were lazy or misguided passes by our forwards that led to oddman opportunities that RK needs to ask what those players were thinking & then correct it. Hasek was good enough to stop a lot of those chances when our play broke down, but you can't expect that from everyone else... its why he was the Dominator.

We talk about effort. Colin Miller i see is trying. But he's made a ton of bone headed mistakes that have cost our team goals. I heard the other night on the broadcast a comment from RK about how he thinks the guys have finally understood how he wants to play D. Every coach has their own system & it takes time to understand it & get to the point where you dont have to think about what you're doing & you just go out & react & play. Think of how often we've changed coaches/systems. I saw the Bruins mentioned above. They have stability & consistency thruout their organization & it shows on the ice. Whereas we have the total opposite of that & it shows on the ice. A dysfunctional organization will have a dysfunctional team. They go hand in hand.

Unless theres some cant miss great GM out there looking for a job, i think we need to stick with Jbots for this offseason, just to try to have some stabilization of the franchise. But i think we have a golden opportunity to change the culture with the amount of players we can swap out of here. Some of these guys have known nothing but losing. Kahun while young had a taste of a winning organization. Simmonds has as well. Bring a few other guys, goalie/2c, 2RW & another year with the same system & that culture should change by addition & subtraction.

I know everyones frustrated, i am for sure. But unless theres a clear upgrade at GM, blowing this up will cause more harm than good. We're really not that far away. For as much as we suck, we're a non Hutton 1st half of the season, a Skinner who scores 10 more goals, a healthy VO & 2C away from making the playoffs this year. Tage Thompson mightve helped too. (Did i really just say TT?, never mind i take everything i just said back!) haha we're doomed!  Na but really i just dont want TP firing Jbots without a clear plan & upgrade to replace him. IF they had a GM they wanted now then sure maybe, but dont fire him & then look for your guy. You shouldnt quit your job before you already have a new one lined up. You don't move out of your house unless you have a new one lined up. I'd be more comfortable with replacing Jbots if it was because they had a guy in mind, not just because the fan base was riled up. But if we're having this same conversation next year, then yeah get him the $%@! out of here!

That's a lot...I'm sure most of the non playoff teams are a few players away from making the playoffs

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As far as a goalie goes, you can't have a bad one.  You can get away with having a bad line on your team....or a bad D-pairing...but because there is only one goalie, your starter can't be 'bad'. 

With that said though, I don't think you need a great one.  Just get someone who is just above 'middle of the pack', but has the potential every year to go on a good run.  If you can get that and NOT pay him top 5 goalie dollars, I think you are set in net.

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