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Zamboni

Who is replacing Botterill? No, really ...

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3 hours ago, dudacek said:

Mike Gillis was thoroughly hated by the time he was ousted in Vancouver. Five years later people reconsidered as it started to dawn on them that he oversaw the best team that city ever had.

Mike seems prickly and arrogant and extremely intelligent. An experienced GM but far from the old boy’s network, he will do things his way and that won’t necessarily be conventional way. You’d definitely see him exploring and implementing new ways of doing things.

He can hold his own in the corporate venue through sheer competence, but you won’t get the cliches that seem to be Jason’s calling card.

If he’s learned some humility and relationship skills, he would be a very intriguing hire.

 

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Mike Gillis was GM in Vancouver for 6 seasons.  After missing the playoffs the season before hiring him, they made the playoffs in his 1st 5 seasons, including winning the first round in his 1st 2 seasons, winning the President's Trophy and making the SCF in his 3rd season, and then getting bounced in the 1st round in his 4th and 5th seasons.  He got canned after missing the playoffs in his 6th season.

Holy mackerel does that sound like a massive improvement for the Sabres. 

Yes please.

My memory could be off, but what did Gillis actually do? Didn't he inherit nearly everything about those teams that made them so good? Granted, he'd be inheriting pieces here that could make the situations comparable and maybe he could make similar supplementary moves. But I wouldn't exactly be doing cartwheels. 

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55 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

 

My memory could be off, but what did Gillis actually do? Didn't he inherit nearly everything about those teams that made them so good? Granted, he'd be inheriting pieces here that could make the situations comparable and maybe he could make similar supplementary moves. But I wouldn't exactly be doing cartwheels. 

This is fair comment in that the Sedins and most of the rest of their core were there when he got there, and that he would be inheriting a similar situation here, but I think there’s some gaps too. His drafting record was poor and his trades generally good. He took over an 88-point team and led it to what would have been five straight 100-point seasons if not for the the lockout.

He is big on analytics, sports science and creative with the cap, all of which I would think would appeal to you. Some good stuff on that here:

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/qa-mike-gillis-travels-world-to-learn-what-other-sports-can-teach-hockey

 

He did a real good interview a while back on his Canucks tenure. Here’s a recap, plus the whole two-hour interview that’s worth a listen if his name ever surfaces I connection with the Sabres.

https://theathletic.com/583660/2018/10/11/the-final-word-on-mike-gillis-time-with-the-canucks/

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/gillis-on-regrets-and-achievements-with-canucks-hodgson-saga-1.1189506

Edited by dudacek

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1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

Hey I’m just spit ballin’ 😬

No problem, just wondering if I was missing something. 

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1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

 

My memory could be off, but what did Gillis actually do? Didn't he inherit nearly everything about those teams that made them so good? Granted, he'd be inheriting pieces here that could make the situations comparable and maybe he could make similar supplementary moves. But I wouldn't exactly be doing cartwheels. 

@dudacek’s response is far superior, but I’ll note that Gillis took over a team that had missed the playoffs 2 out of the prior 3 years (not just the year  before as I had posted previously) and immediately got them to the playoffs 5 years in a row.  

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

This is fair comment in that the Sedins and most of the rest of their core were there when he got there, and that he would be inheriting a similar situation here, but I think there’s some gaps too. His drafting record was poor and his trades generally good. He took over an 88-point team and led it to what would have been five straight 100-point seasons if not for the the lockout.

He is big on analytics, sports science and creative with the cap, all of which I would think would appeal to you. Some good stuff on that here:

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/qa-mike-gillis-travels-world-to-learn-what-other-sports-can-teach-hockey

 

He did a real good interview a while back on his Canucks tenure. Here’s a recap, plus the whole two-hour interview that’s worth a listen if his name ever surfaces I connection with the Sabres.

https://theathletic.com/583660/2018/10/11/the-final-word-on-mike-gillis-time-with-the-canucks/

https://www.tsn.ca/radio/vancouver-1040/gillis-on-regrets-and-achievements-with-canucks-hodgson-saga-1.1189506

Thanks for the good reads. 

31 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

@dudacek’s response is far superior, but I’ll note that Gillis took over a team that had missed the playoffs 2 out of the prior 3 years (not just the year  before as I had posted previously) and immediately got them to the playoffs 5 years in a row.  

Water wet. Sky blue. And so on 😜

I wouldn't hate the idea, and among retreads, he gives me a lot more hope for a successful second act than somebody like Ray Shero. I just wouldn't be giddy or anything given what he started with in Van. 

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19 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

I am usually amazed at how often these go together. 

You're prickly and intelligent. Up your arrogance and you'd have it all, baby!

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I just hope the next GM is an experienced one and not an Assistant GM. Both Murray and Botterill were Assistant GM's before they came to Buffalo and their lack of experience was detrimental to the team.

Edited by Jerry Jabber
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If Gillis fixed his drafting, yes. 

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A friend convinced me. I'm on the Gillis train. 

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10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

A friend convinced me. I'm on the Gillis train. 

They better hurry up

5D353688-144A-49B4-A132-C7D8A15C05B3.jpeg

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The problem for us would be if they fire him but then drag their heels and do a search and interview process and a new guy comes in over the summer. If that's the case he will first assess and then change and it'll be that "process" all over again taking years.  We need a guy to come in asap and make swift and bold moves.

Right now my dream team is something like:

Rick Dudley - President & Director of Hockey Operations

Ron Hextall - GM (or John Ferguson if you can get him out of Boston)

Gerald Gallant - Head coach with all new assistants.

also an overhaul of the scouting department. Either hire Don Luce out of Toronto's staff to run it or the GM's own people.

 

The mantra would be bringing back the pride (which can also be marketed with a tiger (Sabretooth) even though the wordplay is for lions obviously)

but this team will probably do something stupid instead and hire some analytic geek or novice nobody, sign the same players, and tell us trust the process we will get it right this time while raising ticket prices. <sigh>

Edited by PerreaultForever
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10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

A friend convinced me. I'm on the Gillis train. 

Let's hear why, because I'm still not.

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42 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Let's hear why, because I'm still not.

I can't find the article but basically Gillis recognizes the obvious flaw that is hockey scouting. It is a terrible system that sucks. He talked about looking at scouting from an analytics perspective to help clear out the ambiguity. I would hope that it is something akin to what Canucks Army used to do before the guy left. 

Here is an example from 2017 when the guy doing this work for that site still worked there. An interesting note that I hear repeatedly when reading scouting reports is mentioned for Pettersson. He got ranked lower because his U20 Worlds wasn't great. This happens all the time with scouting and guys will get pushed higher because they had a good tournament. It is stupid and not logical to place much emphasis on a 7 game tourney. 

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/06/15/nation-network-2017-prospect-profiles-5-elias-pettersson/

 

Here is Mitts for those curious, he was ranked 7th compared to Pettersson at 5

https://canucksarmy.com/2017/06/14/nation-network-prospect-profiles-7-casey-mittelstadt/

"The concern regarding Mittelstadt in the scouting community is that playing another year with Eden Prairie hurt his development, and based on my viewings of Mittelstadt there may be merit to that theory... At times, Mittelstadt can be seen forcing plays or trying to skate through his competition rather than around it, something he just isn’t going to get away with at the pro level. For the numerically inclined, there’s an even bigger red flag when it comes to Mittelstadt: his production at even-strength. During his stint in the USHL, over two-thirds of Mittelstadt’s points came on the powerplay, and he had just two primary assists at even-strength. Five-on-five production is much more repeatable than special teams success, so there are reasons to be concerned about Mittelstadt’s ability to produce at higher levels."

I mean, they nailed Mitts too a T and the concerns with drafting him. They also hit the reason the head for why he should have been sent to Rochester to actually learn how to play pro hockey. I wish I understood the things about prospects I do know when Mitts was drafted. He would have slid on my list a bit more. 

Mitts_SEAL.thumb.PNG.596918f712768a50a56a2e7b2f6cabed.PNG

Edited by LGR4GM
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Before the analytics guy left, this was one of the very best places for prospect information. Now compare those reports to Cozens and you see why I am sad but also want a GM who does some of what Canucks army used to do. 

https://canucksarmy.com/2019/06/18/2019-draft-countdown-no-7-dylan-cozens/

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The bottom line is I want that level of analysis when it comes to taking a prospect and that extends to all rounds of the draft. This is the type of work we should be doing and is cutting edge stuff. You obvious still use scouts too. You need to know how well someone skates and if they are dedicated to hockey. Cozens for instance is very hockey focused and I that came out in his interviews from my understanding. If you want to learn more about SEAL adjusted scoring, https://hockey-graphs.com/2016/06/15/seal-adjusted-scoring-and-why-it-matters-for-prospects/ 

Either way I wish I had the time, or the job, to sit down and do this. I am seriously considering doing this for the top 10 in this years draft. 

 

I will add this on to the Mitts stuff "My chief concern about Mittelstadt is that it is more than likely that he will take longer to develop simply because he doesn’t have the level of experience at high levels as his peers. He has the skill and the will to catch up, it’s just a matter of perseverance."

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11 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

The problem for us would be if they fire him but then drag their heels and do a search and interview process and a new guy comes in over the summer. If that's the case he will first assess and then change and it'll be that "process" all over again taking years.  We need a guy to come in asap and make swift and bold moves.

Right now my dream team is something like:

Rick Dudley - President & Director of Hockey Operations

Ron Hextall - GM (or John Ferguson if you can get him out of Boston)

Gerald Gallant - Head coach with all new assistants.

also an overhaul of the scouting department. Either hire Don Luce out of Toronto's staff to run it or the GM's own people.

 

The mantra would be bringing back the pride (which can also be marketed with a tiger (Sabretooth) even though the wordplay is for lions obviously)

but this team will probably do something stupid instead and hire some analytic geek or novice nobody, sign the same players, and tell us trust the process we will get it right this time while raising ticket prices. <sigh>

Hextall was GM for 4 seasons in Philly, during which they made the playoffs twice and got bounced in the 1st round both times.

Ferguson was GM for 4 seasons in Toronto, during which they made the playoffs once and won one round.

No thank you.

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14 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Hextall was GM for 4 seasons in Philly, during which they made the playoffs twice and got bounced in the 1st round both times.

Ferguson was GM for 4 seasons in Toronto, during which they made the playoffs once and won one round.

No thank you.

I like Hextall’s drafts a lot.  They look really good.

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On 3/1/2020 at 12:09 AM, Zamboni said:

After you get past saying you just want JB fired. After you get past saying “I don’t know, anyone would be better”. After you get past the understandable frustration of wanting him fired ...

What realistic, logical solution would you recommend to the Pegulas?  I know some will make jokes and rage against JB and/or Pegulas .... so after you get it out of your system, can you name some GM candidates that are semi realistic choices? It would be interesting what real possibilities you think are out there. If anyone can actually supply names.

I personally don’t want a GM where the game has passed them by and are a retread who’s peak was in 1985. I also don’t want a GM with little to no experience as a GM. But that’s just me.
Sabres fans ... Names Names! I want names! 👍🏼

Honestly now that we see what has happened since him, was Darcy Regier such a bad GM?  I almost would say think about bringing him back at this point.

46 minutes ago, Ruff Around The Edges said:

I am circling back on this thought: Can Darcy Regier be brought back?

It IS that bad, help me!

I am kind of with you...on the balance he did a very good job here for a long time. Towards the end when things needed a reboot, partially because Golisano wouldn't spend to keep Drury and Briere it got rough, but we made the playoffs a LOT while he was here...8 times in 15 full seasons and we finished above 90 points 8 times and 100 or more 3 times...far better than the total number of appearances since he has left which has been 0 and the number of 90+ point seasons we have had which also have been 0.

Edited by matter2003

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1 hour ago, matter2003 said:

Honestly now that we see what has happened since him, was Darcy Regier such a bad GM?  I almost would say think about bringing him back at this point.

I am kind of with you...on the balance he did a very good job here for a long time. Towards the end when things needed a reboot, partially because Golisano wouldn't spend to keep Drury and Briere it got rough, but we made the playoffs a LOT while he was here...8 times in 15 full seasons and we finished above 90 points 8 times and 100 or more 3 times...far better than the total number of appearances since he has left which has been 0 and the number of 90+ point seasons we have had which also have been 0.

I've always thought Darcy and Ruff were a good pair. Maybe not great but good. Darcy with Pegula resources rather than the budget constraints he operated under I honestly believe would have been better than our past two guys. Maybe that's not saying a lot. I think Darcy was better.

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Both Tampa and Carolina use an analytics approach similar to what Gilles maybe advocating for drafting

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24 minutes ago, Radar said:

I've always thought Darcy and Ruff were a good pair. Maybe not great but good. Darcy with Pegula resources rather than the budget constraints he operated under I honestly believe would have been better than our past two guys. Maybe that's not saying a lot. I think Darcy was better.

You would have had trouble convincing anyone on here of it 10 years ago, but history has probably revealed Darcy as the most successful GM in franchise history.

Some will say Punch, but Darcy won 11 playoff rounds to Punch’s 6, had 4 final four appearances to Punch’s 1.

He also built two completely different contending teams, Both of them without the benefit of highly-drafted studs. That 06 team was entirely the result of his multiple savvy trades and picks.

Edited by dudacek
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I am all in for bringing back Darcy and Lindy...at least their teams had heart and passion, something badly  missing around here since they left 

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