nfreeman Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 30 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: If this is true, it's not through "Skinner should have had x more goals by now in his minutes, that's why we aren't in it." Adding goals isn't how hockey works. The thing that isn't working on Skinner's line all year isn't just Skinner being worse, it's other stuff which holds that under an umbrella of things going wrong, and this becomes clearer to me every single new game that I'm focusing on it. And what has me so insistent about this today in particular was spending this morning looking at 2018/19 clips that I have saved in memory, compared to what I've seen offensively from Skinner the last few weeks I agree with much of this, but I also think: - Skinner played in a frustrated and petulant way for much of the season. - In doing so, Skinner lost a bit of his razor-sharp scorer's edge -- so that now, despite playing with more determination and Skinner-PITA-ness, he's not burying his chances like he did last year. - The decline in Skinner's play relative to last year has materially harmed the production that the Sabres would otherwise have gotten from their 2nd line (again, acknowledging that Skinner deserved and needed better linemates) and power play -- which in turn has cost the team wins. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 5 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I agree with much of this, but I also think: - Skinner played in a frustrated and petulant way for much of the season. - In doing so, Skinner lost a bit of his razor-sharp scorer's edge -- so that now, despite playing with more determination and Skinner-PITA-ness, he's not burying his chances like he did last year. - The decline in Skinner's play relative to last year has materially harmed the production that the Sabres would otherwise have gotten from their 2nd line (again, acknowledging that Skinner deserved and needed better linemates) and power play -- which in turn has cost the team wins. We might quibble about how "much" of the season he played in a way I would describe as "petulant," but I'm not thrilled with the stretch of hockey that had those bad penalties in it either. Tough to quantify if that has affected the lack of goals going in now, but I know for a fact that stuff is left on the table almost every shift by the non-entities (offensively) he plays with, which really have no place being on this team in a non-4th-line role ever again. And stuff is left on the table by him in both zones too, so he's not perfect. But the Jason Botterill offensive zone allergies are inexcusable at this point, and have permeated the roster for years, and Jeff's line for all of this one. People cite Jeff's Carolina linemates, but while those guys weren't stars, the difference between their offensive creation potential, whether that is just making passes or making space or scoring, is large compared to Jason's yearly depth forwards' I agree that having fewer goals than last year from a line that has a guy on it making 9 mil has a net negative impact on the standings, but I think you get what I'm going for with the post you quoted, in that I don't think our problems can be accurately boiled down to "Skinner should have had x goals in this situation this year, and that is the difference between us having a meaningfully different outcome on the season from the one we will end up having" which I am becoming more and more convinced isn't the case the more I watch. Edited February 25, 2020 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumph_communes Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Wayne’s a digger and Kshhn is a great primary assist getter. Either have potential to help Skinner do his thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, LGR4GM said: I am going to say it. I don't think Jeff Skinner is a sniper. Glad to see someone else on the train. ? He IS a goal scorer, but not a sniper, per se. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: I'm actually gonna put something together on Skinner this offseason. I firmly believe that we don't need to be anywhere near the ledge on Jeff, as long as Jason does his job this summer. And I will have the film, stats, and arguments to prove it I haven't really been that worried about Skinner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said: ie, if Skinner has x more goals, the Sabres aren't better because Skinner has x more goals, but because the environment in which Skinner is making the plays like I'm watching from last season right this second, x more times this season, exists in place of the one that is currently happening on whichever line he's on the ice with, night after night If you are saying the environment surrounding Skinner’s success last year contributed greatly to his success relative to his general status as a hockey player, and the environment surrounding Skinner this year has contributed greatly to his failure, then I will agree. I will also say that similar things can probably be said about Jack, or Risto, or Sheary, and about many (most?] players whose fortunes have changed as their environment changed. And that Skinner - whether through coaching, injury or frustration - stopped doing a lot of the things he does well in December and January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: It's possible, but I could also see that line being an absolute disaster haha Slumping Skinner, Johansson who hates playing center and has declined steadily while being in that position, and an unknown who is widely thought to be a shell of his former self I really think Skinner and Simmonds will feed off each other's energy. Even if they don't score as much as we'd like I can see that line being a real pain to play against and will get opponents off their game. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Doohickie said: I really think Skinner and Simmonds will feed off each other's energy. Even if they don't score as much as we'd like I can see that line being a real pain to play against and will get opponents off their game. We just need Jeff to roll back the clock a year and Wayne three or four. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, dudacek said: We just need Jeff to roll back the clock a year and Wayne three or four. That's kind of what I'm hoping for... that they "click" so to speak and get back into good habits they've had previously. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SABRES 0311 Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 hours ago, nfreeman said: OK, so I'm looking forward to seeing Skinner-MJo-Simmonds. Same here. Someone above said they hope he can forecheck and create space for Skinner and MOJO. I can see Simmonds digging a puck out and getting it to Skinner or driving the net while MOJO sends a nice pass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Allan in MD Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 The rag on Skinner has gotten filthy. When he played with Eichel he scored, consistently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Amerk Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 3 hours ago, triumph_communes said: ...and Kshhn is a great primary assist getter. Is that a Czech name or a German name? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 9 hours ago, WildCard said: Just sub in Kahun for Frolik (and maybe switch Kahun and SImmonds) and good to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Thorny said: Just sub in Kahun for Frolik (and maybe switch Kahun and SImmonds) and good to go. Definitely good with swapping Frolik and Kahun, and expect they will do that at least at 1st as soon as Kahun recovers from his boo boo. Interesting that you'd swap Kahun and Simmonds; primarily because my expectation is the 1st mod to those 2 lines is swapping Vesey and Skinner (just because that swap is what Krueger has run with the past 2-3 weeks when he still had Sheary to put with Johansson). Care to elaborate on why you'd flip the Wayne Train and the German instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 29, 2020 Report Share Posted February 29, 2020 On 2/26/2020 at 12:22 AM, Taro T said: Definitely good with swapping Frolik and Kahun, and expect they will do that at least at 1st as soon as Kahun recovers from his boo boo. Interesting that you'd swap Kahun and Simmonds; primarily because my expectation is the 1st mod to those 2 lines is swapping Vesey and Skinner (just because that swap is what Krueger has run with the past 2-3 weeks when he still had Sheary to put with Johansson). Care to elaborate on why you'd flip the Wayne Train and the German instead? Trying to help Skinner out of his funk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curt Posted February 29, 2020 Report Share Posted February 29, 2020 On 2/25/2020 at 3:59 PM, Taro T said: Glad to see someone else on the train. ? He IS a goal scorer, but not a sniper, per se. Yes, not a sniper. He isn’t shooting lasers from distance or picking corners. He is a threat in transition and he goes to the right places around the net. 90% of his goals come within 6 ft of goal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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