Randall Flagg Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Aargh, I should know better than to touch on the trade that should not be named. Yes, that is exactly what I am referring to (although it was Lebrun, not McKenzie) balanced with the fact Haula is a UFA. I wouldn’t trade a first for Wallmark, and the two prospects the Canes gave up look pretty similar in value to Tage and a 2nd. I think Haula is probably in Florida's long-term plans. If he is, or if Florida makes the playoffs before letting him walk, then I hold firm on my preference. If he's not, then I guess, but i really hated the NHL pieces and Tage at the time of the trade, and the fact that the first was lotto protected even after how we were bent over, which was insulting 1 minute ago, nfreeman said: Interesting. I am not expecting this and will be fairly surprised if it happens. Yes. If you're the GM in your 3rd year with a team, the team is lousy, you're capped out even after 2 expensive vets bailed on the team and had their contracts terminated, you've brought in a bunch of overpaid, underproducing vets and you're borrowing from next year's cap -- you've done a crappy job with the cap (among other failures). As to your 2nd point -- I think it's fair to say that on paper, TT and a #1 alone were a better return than Florida's return for Trocheck, plus Bergy and Sobotka were seen as having some value. Not by the people who were right about the trade all along I was arguing the day after the trade that they should have had negative value because of their play and contract combination Edited February 25, 2020 by Randall Flagg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 27 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Regardless we sent out 10.142 in annualized cap and only brought in 3.4 in annualized cap. That’s a huge change for the better and saves us $1.69 in actual cap the remainer of the season. He did. Agree that getting that money out of town was / is a good thing. But, if NHL Numbers is correct about the Sabres still being over the cap today when the IR'd and BF-LTIR'd guys are included after those moves, then there is no actual cap savings for the remainder of the season and the entirety of whatever bonuses get earned this season will count against next year's cap. If they're incorrect and your #'s are right, then we'll see them keep 1/3-1/2 of those bonuses away from next year's cap. And, it should go without saying, I do hope your interpretation is correct and either NHL Numbers is incorrect or there's been a misinterpretation of what they mean by the "projected cap space" remaining negative. (Maybe they're already including the anticipated bonuses in their projections?) Edited February 25, 2020 by Taro T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 hfboards' resident cap guru guy guesses that we'll be in the 1-1.5 million range for how much cap will spill over to next season, but says it depends on stuff we don't have access to right now, I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: hfboards' resident cap guru guy guesses that we'll be in the 1-1.5 million range for how much cap will spill over to next season, but says it depends on stuff we don't have access to right now, I think. Does that take into account potential FA we lose and sign back? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Just now, WildCard said: Does that take into account potential FA we lose and sign back? I don't think that's relevant to this. It only hinges on performance bonuses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 25, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Taro T said: Agree that getting that money out of town was / is a good thing. But, if NHL Numbers is correct about the Sabres still being over the cap today when the IR'd and BF-LTIR'd guys are included after those moves, then there is no actual cap savings for the remainder of the season and the entirety of whatever bonuses get earned this season will count against next year's cap. If they're incorrect and your #'s are right, then we'll see them keep 1/3-1/2 of those bonuses away from next year's cap. And, it should go without saying, I do hope your interpretation is correct and either NHL Numbers is incorrect or there's been a misinterpretation of what they mean by the "projected cap space" remaining negative. (Maybe they're already including the anticipated bonuses in their projections?) Probably. Some bonuses may have already been earned like with Dahlin and they are already included in their projections. Jbot said some of the bonuses will spill over, but he didn’t seem overly concerned about it which leads me to believe that we aren’t talking a $5 mill hit to our cap next year. 1.0 to 1.5 is certainly manageable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 31 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: hfboards' resident cap guru guy guesses that we'll be in the 1-1.5 million range for how much cap will spill over to next season, but says it depends on stuff we don't have access to right now, I think. 26 minutes ago, WildCard said: Does that take into account potential FA we lose and sign back? 25 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said: I don't think that's relevant to this. It only hinges on performance bonuses Like Randall says, none of that is relevant. Once the regular season is finished, nearly all the team costs are locked in for this season. The exception would be team paid bonuses based on end of year league awards like making the All Rookie Team. It would make sense that the NHL Numbers site is baking some of the ELC Bonuses into their projections as Dahlin has already locked down some bonuses and maybe some of the others have as well. And Olofsson is a single goal away from a bonus as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 Positive spins on the rookie and other bonuses: 1) Yay! Our rookies are contributing and doing well on their rookie contracts. 2) $2M fewer to spend this offseason means JBot has to spend judiciously on his UFA acquisitions. So instead of picking up a Frolik at $4M, we'd have to find an up-and-comer at $775k. (Granted $2M less makes it harder to overpay that 2C or lock up the people we want, but again, positive spin.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 21 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said: Positive spins on the rookie and other bonuses: 1) Yay! Our rookies are contributing and doing well on their rookie contracts. 2) $2M fewer to spend this offseason means JBot has to spend judiciously on his UFA acquisitions. So instead of picking up a Frolik at $4M, we'd have to find an up-and-comer at $775k. (Granted $2M less makes it harder to overpay that 2C or lock up the people we want, but again, positive spin.) Add $916k for the C Hutton Buyout in June. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said: Add $916k for the C Hutton Buyout in June. That's one fewer ex-Pen JBot can acquire in a deal with Pitt to regain Sheary.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, DarthEbriate said: That's one fewer ex-Pen JBot can acquire in a deal with Pitt to regain Sheary.... Or half-a-Hunwick in bad Contracts he can accept from them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthEbriate Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said: Or half-a-Hunwick in bad Contracts he can accept from them. Win-win. Only an AHL-level defenseman can be added this time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni Posted February 25, 2020 Report Share Posted February 25, 2020 12 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said: Add $916k for the C Hutton Buyout in June. That buyout absolutely won’t happen. And it would be stupid of JB to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Zamboni said: That buyout absolutely won’t happen. And it would be stupid of JB to do so. Why would you say it's stupid? Stupid would be to rolling into 2021 expecting different results from the ineffective duo currently minding net. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 5 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said: Why would you say it's stupid? Stupid would be to rolling into 2021 expecting different results from the ineffective duo currently minding net. I wouldn't necessarily buy Hutton out, but I would sign a guy to legitimately compete with him and waive the loser. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: Even with all of this, if our cap genius ends up handcuffing a couple million in cap space next season, I'm justified in being pretty pissed off, right? Especially because of how bad Frolik is haha By reputations are you referring to Bob McKenzie telling us that Berglund and Sobotka were great depth? Because I'd much rather have the Panthers' haul today than I would have liked the Sabres' haul back on July 1st To me, funnily enough, it comes down to whether or not Botterill knew at the time of the trade we were going to be faced with that cap penalty next year. I've read speculation he was unaware, which to me would be unacceptable. If he was fully aware we had those few extra million against the cap next year and didn't see it an as issue, I guess it can be classified as a reasonable hit. He would be factoring that into his evaluation of Kahun, and have deemed him worth it. So, the trade just comes down to what becomes of Kahun, which is normal. What do we think? Would we rather have Kahun and the penalty or no Kahun? Edited February 26, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 minute ago, dudacek said: I wouldn't necessarily buy Hutton out, but I would sign a guy to legitimately compete with him and waive the loser. A buyout would cost us 900k approx for the next two seasons. A demotion to the AHL would give us a cap hit of 1.65 for next year only but also keep him in the organization in case of injury. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 Just now, Thorny said: To me, funnily enough, it comes down to whether or not Botterill knew at the time of the trade we were going to be faced that cap penalty next year. I've read speculation he was unaware, which to me would be unacceptable. If he was fully aware we had those few extra million against the cap next year and didn't see it an as issue, I guess it can be classified as a reasonable hit. What do we think? Would we rather have Kahun and the penalty or no Kahun? Not sure if by "time of the trade" you mean Kahun or Frolik. In his presser, he said he ran the scenarios on the deadline options, knew they were in overage and decided it was worth it. It's hard to pass judgement before knowing what the carryover will be, what the opportunity cost is in the summer, and how good Kahun is. But we do have a lot of space next year and in general I am in favour of acquiring skilled forwards under the age of 25. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 7 minutes ago, dudacek said: I wouldn't necessarily buy Hutton out, but I would sign a guy to legitimately compete with him and waive the loser. To compete with Hutton for the back-up job? Are you confident in Ullmark-as-starter for next season, a playoffs-must-make? Edited February 26, 2020 by Thorny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted February 26, 2020 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Thorny said: To compete with Hutton for the back-up job? Are you confident in Ullmark-as-starter for next season, a playoffs-must-make? Ullmark has improved every year. No reason to think he can’t play at least at his current level. Had Hutton played close to Ullmarks level this season, we’d be in a playoff spot now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Thorny said: To compete with Hutton for the back-up job? Are you confident in Ullmark-as-starter for next season, a playoffs-must-make? Not at all, at least not prior to Linus taking another step (beyond the one he's already taken this year) and leading us into the playoffs down the stretch. Goalie is my number two priority after 2C. In my perfect world we somehow acquire a new starter and Ullmark backs him up, but at the very least we need someone to compete with him the way Hutton was supposed to. Maybe Johansson emerges down the stretch or during a playoff run in Rochester? I haven't really looked at the options, but the cap and the expansion draft will complicate things. I just don't trust Hutton with any more than 20 games next year. Edited February 26, 2020 by dudacek 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 14 minutes ago, dudacek said: I wouldn't necessarily buy Hutton out, but I would sign a guy to legitimately compete with him and waive the loser. Waiving worked for Bogo, and could work for Carter. But this July there are three top tier UFA's that will not be available in coming years. A buyout this June saves $1.8M in 20/21, with a hit of only $916K for the next two. I'm using that space to pursue Holtby, Markstom or Murray. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 37 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said: Why would you say it's stupid? Stupid would be to rolling into 2021 expecting different results from the ineffective duo currently minding net. Because with only one year left on his contract it would make more sense to assign him to the A. That way there's no further cap hit after this coming season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 minute ago, Doohickie said: Because with only one year left on his contract it would make more sense to assign him to the A. That way there's no further cap hit after this coming season. If you are looking for a new #2, sure makes more sense. You carry a $2m cap hit for him in the A, no harm. If you need the space to sign a #1 the hit is only $916K. You pick up a $1M extra in 2020, and lose it in 2021. I don't think he's going to either, so it just mental *****. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted February 26, 2020 Report Share Posted February 26, 2020 1 hour ago, dudacek said: I just don't trust Hutton with any more than 20 games next year. One thing that puzzles me: Why does Hutton have such great stretches followed by such horrible ones? If we had some consistency out of him, it would be easier for the Sabres to deal with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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