Per Source Pegulas Have No Plans to Hire a POHO

[nfreeman]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

RaKru as special advisor to the owner? He'll find a new GM and get Terry's sign off? Then be the go-between between the new GM and the owner, leaving the GM to do his job unfettered? And maybe work with Adams, who will be the new team president, to do business-y stuff, the link between the hockey and business side?

I'd take that as a compromise to my idea of a hockey president with Terry back in Scranton without phone service or email.

In all seriousness, there is a real chance this or something like it comes to pass.  

[Taro T]

4 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I just bashed Friedman in the other thread, but from a poster's summary of his words on hfboards:
 

Lastly, he [Friedman] says that the biggest wildcard with the team is what the organization looks like next year. Whether Botterill will be back, if Kevin Adams or Kruger are elevated into new roles, etc. Says that the Pegulas are really frustrated and that all options are being discussed.

My biggest fear at this point is that Botterill gets canned and replaced by a guy that isn't interested in building in the Chicago/Pittsburgh mold which we've seen them working towards the past 3 seasons.  If the next guy seeks a team built for a different style, we are likely once again 2 years away from playoff contention / relevance.  (Kind of like how Murray went a different direction than Regier was headed and Botts went in a different direction than TM.)

And, perhaps, should Botterill go bye bye, the Pegulas will hire someone with the same sort of vision but better tangible skills than Jason so we see better trade results and better Cap management.  But can anybody here present a compelling reason to EXPECT that they will?

 

[Randall Flagg]

29 minutes ago, Taro T said:

My biggest fear at this point is that Botterill gets canned and replaced by a guy that isn't interested in building in the Chicago/Pittsburgh mold which we've seen them working towards the past 3 seasons.  If the next guy seeks a team built for a different style, we are likely once again 2 years away from playoff contention / relevance.  (Kind of like how Murray went a different direction than Regier was headed and Botts went in a different direction than TM.)

And, perhaps, should Botterill go bye bye, the Pegulas will hire someone with the same sort of vision but better tangible skills than Jason so we see better trade results and better Cap management.  But can anybody here present a compelling reason to EXPECT that they will?

 

I don't think we're particularly far down the road towards a model of hockey that remotely resembles what those teams were capable of at their peak. As long as we bring in somebody that is competent in the arena of player value, making trades, pro scouting etc. we will be a playoff caliber team next year

[dudacek]

3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I don't think we're particularly far down the road towards a model of hockey that remotely resembles what those teams were capable of at their peak. As long as we bring in somebody that is competent in the arena of player value, making trades, pro scouting etc. we will be a playoff caliber team next year

Do you know how easy it is for a bad team to make a 10 point improvement in the NHL?

Of the 14 teams that missed the playoffs the year Murray was fired, 12 of them finished at least 10 points better in one of the two following seasons.

Buffalo was worse both years.

Edited February 21, 2020 by dudacek

[Taro T]

19 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I don't think we're particularly far down the road towards a model of hockey that remotely resembles what those teams were capable of at their peak. As long as we bring in somebody that is competent in the arena of player value, making trades, pro scouting etc. we will be a playoff caliber team next year

That's our hope as Sabre fans and pretty sure the expectation of the Fire Botterill Now crowd.  Just not convinced that expectation is as realistic as it should be.

And, as IMHO this team as currently assembled is a 2C and a 2nd competent goalie (1 difficult to acquire but, with the capital available in the D corps, acquirable piece and 1 very acquirable piece) away from having had a very legit shot at ending the playoff drought, am very much on the fence for getting rid of him.

[Brawndo]

Here is the segment from 31 Thoughts Podcast that Flagg was referring to earlier. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Brawndo

[triumph_communes]

Scared that Steve Smith gets promoted to head coach if Krueger became GM/President

[Taro T]

3 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Scared that Steve Smith gets promoted to head coach if Krueger became GM/President

Good point.  Everyone in the organization seems to think the guy walks on water.  (Suppose technically everybody involved in this sport does, but that's not the point.) 

Not seeing it myself.

[Randall Flagg]

20 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Scared that Steve Smith gets promoted to head coach if Krueger became GM/President

Krueger does seem to like him, how rare is it for coaches to come in and keep an assistant that was already there?

 

id have to hope that the pool of available HCs is enticing enough to not go that route

2 hours ago, Taro T said:

That's our hope as Sabre fans and pretty sure the expectation of the Fire Botterill Now crowd.  Just not convinced that expectation is as realistic as it should be.

And, as IMHO this team as currently assembled is a 2C and a 2nd competent goalie (1 difficult to acquire but, with the capital available in the D corps, acquirable piece and 1 very acquirable piece) away from having had a very legit shot at ending the playoff drought, am very much on the fence for getting rid of him.

While I want him fired because I don't believe he is better than mediocre in those areas, I understand that there is a chance that a Botts can make these moves and get us there, so while I'd fire him I understand it's likely that he's here one more offseason and am not fully in doom and gloom mode about it 

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, Randall Flagg said:

Krueger does seem to like him, how rare is it for coaches to come in and keep an assistant that was already there?

Not rare. If things don't go well the first year they are scapegoated out the next but new coaches often like to keep one or two guys around to help in getting to know the lay of the land. Some of the arrogant veteran guys want all their own people but rarely.

[triumph_communes]

Smith was his assistant in Edmonton as well

[Brawndo]

This organization is at a pivotal crossroads this summer. The makings of a young core is in place and there are important decisions to be made on RFAs and cap space. The question becomes is Botterill up to the job given the fact besides Skinner, his most notable forward acquisitions on the team this season were Sobotka, Vesey, Frolik and Sheary. Thompson is hurt, and Mittlestadt is finally where he belongs in Rochester. Rochester has improved, but how much of that is on the draft choices that are down there versus the AHL Veterans that were brought in. If the Pegulas are questioning whether or not Botterill is the right person for the job, it’s time to move on from him.

This job should be attractive to GM Candidates based on the flexibility that exists for this summer. Add the various coaching candidates who are available this summer and moving on from JBOT is prudent. Allowing Botterill, who will be under pressure to get this right, could be disastrous for the team as another summer of inactivity or worse bad activity will take a large toll on the team. 

[dudacek]

35 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

This organization is at a pivotal crossroads this summer. The makings of a young core is in place and there are important decisions to be made on RFAs and cap space. The question becomes is Botterill up to the job given the fact besides Skinner, his most notable forward acquisitions on the team this season were Sobotka, Vesey, Frolik and Sheary. Thompson is hurt, and Mittlestadt is finally where he belongs in Rochester. Rochester has improved, but how much of that is on the draft choices that are down there versus the AHL Veterans that were brought in. If the Pegulas are questioning whether or not Botterill is the right person for the job, it’s time to move on from him.

This job should be attractive to GM Candidates based on the flexibility that exists for this summer. Add the various coaching candidates who are available this summer and moving on from JBOT is prudent. Allowing Botterill, who will be under pressure to get this right, could be disastrous for the team as another summer of inactivity or worse bad activity will take a large toll on the team. 

Agree wholeheartedly that the slate Botterill leaves will be extraordinarily tempting to new candidates, although that will be tempered by the Pegulas track record.

Reading between the lines, it appears Jason will get the deadline and the stretch to demonstrate why he deserves June and July. Dumping Sheary and Frolik for 4th rounders won’t save his job. I hope the pressure doesn’t push him into doing something damaging before he leaves.

[Curt]

6 hours ago, Brawndo said:

This organization is at a pivotal crossroads this summer. The makings of a young core is in place and there are important decisions to be made on RFAs and cap space. The question becomes is Botterill up to the job given the fact besides Skinner, his most notable forward acquisitions on the team this season were Sobotka, Vesey, Frolik and Sheary. Thompson is hurt, and Mittlestadt is finally where he belongs in Rochester. Rochester has improved, but how much of that is on the draft choices that are down there versus the AHL Veterans that were brought in. If the Pegulas are questioning whether or not Botterill is the right person for the job, it’s time to move on from him.

This job should be attractive to GM Candidates based on the flexibility that exists for this summer. Add the various coaching candidates who are available this summer and moving on from JBOT is prudent. Allowing Botterill, who will be under pressure to get this right, could be disastrous for the team as another summer of inactivity or worse bad activity will take a large toll on the team. 

You forgot Johansson and Lazar as forward additions.  However, I think that the issue you pose is certainly the big question.  Botterill has set up this offseason for maximum roster and cap flexibility.  Should he be the one who is trusted to mold the clay this offseason?

[triumph_communes]

At the end of the Murray tenure there was no path forward. He had spent all his marbles and every single pet of the org was a failure.  The minor league was in shambles. All the prospects he traded for were busting early.  And he still had confidence in Dan freaking Bylsma as the coach 

 

Currently the team is on pace for its best finish before Murray, even if its a disappointment. Lots of injuries to blame. Amerks are doing well. Prospects are growing up. The core is growing up. Our cap situation is going to be wide open. Team needs a 2C and a better back up goalie—-and he has a deadline and the off season to address this.  It’s not like he hasn’t been all over the phones. 
 

He’s not going anywhere 

Edited February 21, 2020 by triumph_communes

[CallawaySabres]

This team is in the playoffs if he doesn't make the O'Reilly trade. That move alone,  and the fact they still have no replacement is grounds for dismissal.  That is the worst trade in Sabres history and he's still here?

[Curt]

48 minutes ago, CallawaySabres said:

This team is in the playoffs if he doesn't make the O'Reilly trade. That move alone,  and the fact they still have no replacement is grounds for dismissal.  That is the worst trade in Sabres history and he's still here?

While possible, that’s not a given.  Do not underestimate the Sabres ability to screw things up in other ways.

ROR was in Buffalo for three seasons and they didn’t make the playoffs any of them.

[Pimlach]

15 hours ago, Taro T said:

That's our hope as Sabre fans and pretty sure the expectation of the Fire Botterill Now crowd.  Just not convinced that expectation is as realistic as it should be.

And, as IMHO this team as currently assembled is a 2C and a 2nd competent goalie (1 difficult to acquire but, with the capital available in the D corps, acquirable piece and 1 very acquirable piece) away from having had a very legit shot at ending the playoff drought, am very much on the fence for getting rid of him.

The additional capital we had on defense is gone.  Bogo is gone and not worth anything.  The  Scandella asset was wasted on Frolik (could have been a #2).   Trade Risto or Montour in an effort to get a 2C and you lose a top 4 defenseman.  Pilut is not a viable 4, he is a 6/7 at best.  Gilmour is a 7.  Trading Miller or McCabe will not bring a 2C by themselves.   Borgen might be an option next year. 
 

 

 

[Taro T]

21 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The additional capital we had on defense is gone.  Bogo is gone and not worth anything.  The  Scandella asset was wasted on Frolik (could have been a #2).   Trade Risto or Montour in an effort to get a 2C and you lose a top 4 defenseman.  Pilut is not a viable 4, he is a 6/7 at best.  Gilmour is a 7.  Trading Miller or McCabe will not bring a 2C by themselves.   Borgen might be an option next year. 
 

 

 

The Sabres were ALWAYS going to lose a Top 4 D-Man to bring in a legit 2C.  And, unless the team trading away the C really liked Ristolainen, there was always going to be an additional pjece/ pieces going out.  So, while the depth is thinned, the necessary capital to bring in a 2C still is on the roster (& the supplements necessary to consummate that trade are here/in the pipeline).

And that top 4 D-man was going to be one of Ristolainen, Montour, or Miller depending on just what the other team needed to improve its blue line.

After that trade would be made the Sabres BL becomes (and for simplicity, let's say its Risto; it could be any of the 3 RHD)

Dahlin - Montour/Miller

McCabe - Jokiharju

Pilut - Miller/Montour.

Bogosian doesn't see ice time.  Keeping Scandella would've put Pilut back with the Amerks, and the team's D is weaker without him.  But that is still a good D-corps as there aren't any true AT PRESENT 1's or 2's (but there weren't any  with Risto & Marco either; and to Thorny  - yes Dahlin WILL be a #1 soon, but he isn't yet, apologies for stating that ? ) but there also aren't any 6 or 7's (or worse 8 or 9's).  We disagree on Pilut.  IMHO he is a 5.  And it is weaker because there is now a 5 (Pilut) in there in place of a 3 (Risto); but having Miller in in place of Scandella weakens the PK but overall it doesn't weaken the D much if any.  They're different skill sets but both are 4's IMHO.

The backups are 7-8's (Gilmour & until he is waived Bogo) and Bryson is also in the wings.  Which is better asset management than having a 4 & a 5 waiting for playing time.  (And the issue with trading Scandella (who my preference was to re-sign btw) wasn't losing him it was losing him for friggin' Frolik.)

Edited February 21, 2020 by Taro T

[WildCard]

9 hours ago, Brawndo said:

This organization is at a pivotal crossroads this summer. The makings of a young core is in place and there are important decisions to be made on RFAs and cap space. The question becomes is Botterill up to the job given the fact besides Skinner, his most notable forward acquisitions on the team this season were Sobotka, Vesey, Frolik and Sheary. Thompson is hurt, and Mittlestadt is finally where he belongs in Rochester. Rochester has improved, but how much of that is on the draft choices that are down there versus the AHL Veterans that were brought in. If the Pegulas are questioning whether or not Botterill is the right person for the job, it’s time to move on from him.

This job should be attractive to GM Candidates based on the flexibility that exists for this summer. Add the various coaching candidates who are available this summer and moving on from JBOT is prudent. Allowing Botterill, who will be under pressure to get this right, could be disastrous for the team as another summer of inactivity or worse bad activity will take a large toll on the team. 

Not even sure who I'd want to be the next GM. Honestly, probably steal someone from Boston. They draft well it seems like

[Eleven]

20 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

They already have him. They either lucked into it when Botterill hired him, or they were super smart to tell Botterill to hire him.

 

If your meaning is Kruger, then let's get on with it already.  

[Pimlach]

1 hour ago, Taro T said:

The Sabres were ALWAYS going to lose a Top 4 D-Man to bring in a legit 2C.  And, unless the team trading away the C really liked Ristolainen, there was always going to be an additional pjece/ pieces going out.  So, while the depth is thinned, the necessary capital to bring in a 2C still is on the roster (& the supplements necessary to consummate that trade are here/in the pipeline).

And that top 4 D-man was going to be one of Ristolainen, Montour, or Miller depending on just what the other team needed to improve its blue line.

After that trade would be made the Sabres BL becomes (and for simplicity, let's say its Risto; it could be any of the 3 RHD)

Dahlin - Montour/Miller

McCabe - Jokiharju

Pilut - Miller/Montour.

Bogosian doesn't see ice time.  Keeping Scandella would've put Pilut back with the Amerks, and the team's D is weaker without him.  But that is still a good D-corps as there aren't any true AT PRESENT 1's or 2's (but there weren't any  with Risto & Marco either; and to Thorny  - yes Dahlin WILL be a #1 soon, but he isn't yet, apologies for stating that ? ) but there also aren't any 6 or 7's (or worse 8 or 9's).  We disagree on Pilut.  IMHO he is a 5.  And it is weaker because there is now a 5 (Pilut) in there in place of a 3 (Risto); but having Miller in in place of Scandella weakens the PK but overall it doesn't weaken the D much if any.  They're different skill sets but both are 4's IMHO.

The backups are 7-8's (Gilmour & until he is waived Bogo) and Bryson is also in the wings.  Which is better asset management than having a 4 & a 5 waiting for playing time.  (And the issue with trading Scandella (who my preference was to re-sign btw) wasn't losing him it was losing him for friggin' Frolik.)

There is no telling exactly what JBOT was going to do with his stock pile of defensemen but the situation now is slightly different than it was at the start of the season.  What you state is still  theory .. it is all theoretical discussion by guys on a hockey forum.   If it was easy to make the trade for a 2C, JBOT would have probably made it by now. 

While I agree with most of the theory you propose, I look at it this way ---  Procrastination hurts.   I think we are weaker in terms of trade capital with the Bogo on the scrap heap (sure - probably a wash all along) and the Scandella asset wasted for nothing.  That 2nd round pick that Montreal got would be far more useful in a trade, more useful that Frolik has proven to be.  Not only that but the limited play and possible misuse of Miller has lessened his value around the league.  This years Miller was not as good as this years Scandy - at best a wash. 

As you stated we disagree on Pilut.  As long as we are playing regular season games against "lighter" teams he is ok as a 5/6.  He is simply not up to the task against heavy teams and I could see him getting abused in the playoffs.  Simply put, his skills have to overcome his lack of size and I don't think he is an NHL defensemen.  I want to be wrong on this. 

So yes, we can lose Risto or Montour plus some other asset(s) to get a 2C.   I am more hopeful for Borgen stepping up than anyone we have  seen this year. 

Edited February 21, 2020 by Pimlach

[Curt]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

The additional capital we had on defense is gone.  Bogo is gone and not worth anything.  The  Scandella asset was wasted on Frolik (could have been a #2).   Trade Risto or Montour in an effort to get a 2C and you lose a top 4 defenseman.  Pilut is not a viable 4, he is a 6/7 at best.  Gilmour is a 7.  Trading Miller or McCabe will not bring a 2C by themselves.   Borgen might be an option next year. 

You are talking about 2 unrelated things here.  1) Not maximizing Scandella’s value and 2) trading a top 4 for a 2C.  They are unrelated because Scandella or Bogo was never going to return a 2C in a trade, nor provide long term cover for a top 4 D who was traded for a 2C.
 

I keep seeing people mash these two topics together as one thing, when they don’t actually impact each other in any real way.

[Pimlach]

30 minutes ago, Curt said:

You are talking about 2 unrelated things here.  1) Not maximizing Scandella’s value and 2) trading a top 4 for a 2C.  They are unrelated because Scandella or Bogo was never going to return a 2C in a trade, nor provide long term cover for a top 4 D who was traded for a 2C.
 

I keep seeing people mash these two topics together as one thing, when they don’t actually impact each other in any real way.

They are related if you believe that Scandella could have in some way been in the package to get a 2C.  Which I do.   Example:  get that #2 pick for Scandella.  Use that pick in whatever you package for a 2C.  There, they are related now.  All assets are interrelated and one deal can impact the next.  
 

I am saying that stockpiling defensemen, waiting all year for a trade while rotating 7, and then mismanaging the assets you have all go together.  My main point has been that I believe we are in a weaker position to acquire a 2C right now.  I prefer he waits until the off season so we can look at free agents too.  
 

My confidence in JBot is very low.  

Edited February 21, 2020 by Pimlach

[Taro T]

2 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

They are related if you believe that Scandella could have in some way been in the package to get a 2C.  Which I do.   Example:  get that #2 pick for Scandella.  Use that pick in whatever you package for a 2C.  There, they are related now.  All assets are interrelated and one deal can impact the next.  
 

I am saying that stockpiling defensemen, waiting all year for a trade while rotating 7, and then mismanaging the assets you have all go together.  My main has been that I believe we are in a weaker position to acquire a 2C right now.  I prefer he waits until the off season so we can look at free agents too.  
 

My confidence in JBot is very low.  

Truly doubt Scandella would've been part of a package for a 2C, unless TWO D went out in that trade.  He was playing well this year after a very bad year but wasn't a key target from anyone, especially being a pending UFA.  Montreal absolutely maxed out his value and only roll because of Bouwmeister's condition.  (Timing helps.)