shrader Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 I know teams will trade random draft picks 3 or 4 years in advance, but 2109? Now that's a rebuild. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 12 minutes ago, tom webster said: Because they are throw always. They give a portion of the fan base a reason to believe there’s more coming down the road. Are they? From 1999 to 2014 the Sabres made 13 4th rd picks netting Chris Butler, Jan Hejda and Marcus Foligno. That’s not bad at all (23%). League average is 15-18%. You may consider them throw in to appease the masses but I don’t think GM’s look at them that way My understanding is that NHL teams have draft value charts like the NFL and use the value of those picks as currency to even out deals. Here is a chart I’ve used in the past that does a pretty solid job of assigning pick value. https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/4/25/4262594/nhl-draft-pick-value-trading-up Edited January 28, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 20 minutes ago, nfreeman said: I think both of the examples you listed support the position that your offer for Henrique is too low. Both guys' production are roughly equivalent to Henriques', and both garnered higher returns than your proposal for Henrique. Winnipeg gave up a higher price for Hayes, who was a 30-game rental and is less than 2 years younger than Henrique. Carolina gave up a better prospect in Duclair than Asplund is, plus 2 2nds. And you're asking Anaheim to take Bogo. I like the Henrique idea, and I don't think the Sabres would need to give up a #1, but it would need to be a better prospect than Asplund, we couldn't make them wait a year for the #2 and I don't think they would accept a cap dump, especially since Anaheim is a cash-budget team. According to Wheeler today in the Athletic, Asplund is our 4th Best prospect and most NHL ready with a 3rd line upside. Our better prospects are Cozens, UPL and Portillo. The article I read about Ana open to cap dumps also said that right now guys with long term aren’t as highly prized. My speculation is that most teams won’t take a guy with 4 years left other then a superstar. I’m happy to add a Bryson or Fitzgerald to the mix but not much more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said: It’s not treading water at all. Henrique is an upgrade over MoJo at center, allowing MoJo to be upgrade at RW. Give me a better solution that is possible today, that we can afford asset wise and that will work cap wise. Anthony Cirelli this summer. I am not interested in mortgaging the future for a slim chance of making the playoffs and losing in round 1 to Boston. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Anthony Cirelli this summer. I am not interested in mortgaging the future for a slim chance of making the playoffs and losing in round 1 to Boston. I love the idea, except why will cap strapped TB trade away one of its few cheap good players? Also I don’t think we would be mortgaging anything away to get Henrique. Losing Asplund and some draft pick doesn’t exactly change the franchise’s future while Henrique helps the present and best future. Edited January 28, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: I love the idea, except why will cap strapped TB trade away one of its few cheap good players? Because he is an RFA on July 1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 58 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Are they? From 1999 to 2014 the Sabres made 13 4th rd picks netting Chris Butler, Jan Hejda and Marcus Foligno. That’s not bad at all (23%). League average is 15-18%. You may consider them throw in to appease the masses but I don’t think GM’s look at them that way My understanding is that NHL teams have draft value charts like the NFL and use the value of those picks as currency to even out deals. Here is a chart I’ve used in the past that does a pretty solid job of assigning pick value. https://www.broadstreethockey.com/2013/4/25/4262594/nhl-draft-pick-value-trading-up I think you verified my point. 15years and Butler, Hejda and Foligno? And I like Marcus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 42 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Because he is an RFA on July 1. Which 100% means nobody will offer sheet him unfortunately Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 3 minutes ago, WildCard said: Which 100% means nobody will offer sheet him unfortunately I'd offer him 6mil for whatever term he wants (2-7 years). If that doesn't do it, go 8.1mil and say screw it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 Just now, LGR4GM said: I'd offer him 6mil for whatever term he wants (2-7 years). If that doesn't do it, go 8.1mil and say screw it. Maybe some day they will get to the point where offer sheets are used. Some team or teams are going to get the jump in the rest of the league when they decide to be Trail Blazers. Imagine how different things would be around here if Sebastian Aho was the 2C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I'd offer him 6mil for whatever term he wants (2-7 years). If that doesn't do it, go 8.1mil and say screw it. Don't have time to look up the compensation charts, but remember the Sabres don't have this years' 3rd rounder so there are a lot of offers they can't make. (And pretty sure they'll be in that same position next year.) Thoughg a $6MM-ish offer would necessitate a 3rd as part of the package. (But not positive on that.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 46 minutes ago, tom webster said: Imagine how different things would be around here if Sebastian Aho was the 2C. Yeah and.... what picks would we be missing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WildCard Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 7 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Yeah and.... what picks would we be missing? I don't think I'd care at that point Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweetlou Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Taro T said: Don't have time to look up the compensation charts, but remember the Sabres don't have this years' 3rd rounder so there are a lot of offers they can't make. (And pretty sure they'll be in that same position next year.) Thoughg a $6MM-ish offer would necessitate a 3rd as part of the package. (But not positive on that.) ANNUAL AVERAGE (AAV) VALUE COMPENSATION $0 - $1,395,053 No Compensation $1,395,054 - $2,113,716 1 Third Round Pick $2,113,717 - $4,227,437 1 Second Round Pick $4,227,438 - $6,341,152 1 First Round Pick, 1 Third Round Pick $6,341,153 - $8,454,871 1 First Round Pick, 1 Second Round Pick, 1 Third Round Pick $8,454,872 - $10,568,589 2 First Round Picks, 1 Second Round Pick, 1 Third Round Pick Any Sabres offer sheets would have to be below 4,227,437 since they do not have a third rd pick. Edited January 28, 2020 by sweetlou 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 56 minutes ago, tom webster said: Maybe some day they will get to the point where offer sheets are used. Some team or teams are going to get the jump in the rest of the league when they decide to be Trail Blazers. Imagine how different things would be around here if Sebastian Aho was the 2C. What kind of offer would it take for a significant RFA to not be matched by his own team. There really aren't too many crazy things you can throw into a deal to mess with another team. Ultimately, the things that are going to limit that team are probably going to limit your team as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 6 minutes ago, Doohickie said: Yeah and.... what picks would we be missing? We need a 23-year-old 1B centre far more than a bunch of picks. We don't have a third in 2021, which effectively eliminates all offer sheets betwee 4.2 and 10.5 AAV. Which is too bad, because our roster is otherwise in the ideal place to poach an RFA. 1 minute ago, shrader said: What kind of offer would it take for a significant RFA to not be matched by his own team. There really aren't too many crazy things you can throw into a deal to mess with another team. Ultimately, the things that are going to limit that team are probably going to limit your team as well. It's the salary cap. For example, if someone threw $9 million at Brayden Point last summer, the Bolts would have had to trade a good player to clear space. Same situation this summer for Cirelli. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 hour ago, WildCard said: I don't think I'd care at that point Oh sure you would. This is a sports forum. No matter what management does, people gripe about it. ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, dudacek said: We need a 23-year-old 1B centre far more than a bunch of picks. One name, one player to wield the 2C spot amongst them all, one team looking for a no holds barred rebuild, 3 1st round unprotected draft picks and a B+ or higher prospects to get him...……………. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you...……………………. DYLAN LARKIN of the Detroit Red Wings. 3 unprotected 1st round picks, Casey Mittelstadt or William Borgen. There is your 2C. Edited January 28, 2020 by Scottysabres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 1 minute ago, Scottysabres said: One name, one player to wield the 2C spot amongst them all, one team looking for a no holds barred rebuild, 3 1st round unprotected draft picks and a B+ or higher prospects to get him...……………. Ladies and Gentlemen, I give you...……………………. DYLAN LARKIN of the Detroit Red Wings. 2 unprotected 1st round picks, Casey Mittelstadt or William Borgen. There is your 2C. I kicked that around but by all accounts Stevie Y sees himself in Larkin, a true leader who will one day lead them back to glory. What might have been had TM been able to convince KH that second round picks were as valuable as some posters here think they are. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, tom webster said: I kicked that around but by all accounts Stevie Y sees himself in Larkin, a true leader who will one day lead them back to glory. What might have been had TM been able to convince KH that second round picks were as valuable as some posters here think they are. Yea Tom, I figure they'll build around him, but, at some point and time, everything has a price, well, in this case, a massive over pay. Just how much is Larkin worth to a team like the Sabres as opposed to the Red Wings? Well, Stevie Y is no fool, four 1st's unprotected and both Middelstadt and Borgen, and I'd firmly say you have your Larkin. And while a good portion of die hard fans would scream in pain at the four 1st's, a fan like myself would wide eye'd smile at each and every game he played in for us. Is the price steep? It should be. How much of a difference would Larkin make as opposed to the assets I listed? He'd be a catalyst for the arrival of the Sabres on the cup contention scene, in my most humbled opinion. Edited January 28, 2020 by Scottysabres Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 28, 2020 Report Share Posted January 28, 2020 5 hours ago, LGR4GM said: So we are basically trading for another Johansson level player and hoping he works better plugged into #2 center role for the next 2 years. Nothing like treading water. If that is what I can get this season, I'll take another Johansson. It moves the actual Johansson to wing where he belongs and drops Erod off the roster. Incremental improvement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksabre Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SwampD Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 2 hours ago, darksabre said: Me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted January 29, 2020 Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 17 hours ago, dudacek said: It's the salary cap. For example, if someone threw $9 million at Brayden Point last summer, the Bolts would have had to trade a good player to clear space. Same situation this summer for Cirelli. The same salary cap that both teams have to deal with. So whoever gets Point at $9 million winds up with cap issues of their own, maybe not immediately, but soon. But that's really the point, the type of deal it's going to take to make a team pass on matching is extremely high and will mess with the cap figures of any team. When you start to significantly overpay people, it snowballs from there. And Tampa has that tax advantage that's really hard to quantify. If this is ever going to start happening, it won't be a Tampa player that starts it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted January 29, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 29, 2020 The Athletic Winnipeg had 5 Defenseman that the Jets could target in trade. Risto and Miller were mentioned as possible targets. The rumor from the summer about the return for Risto would have made NS very happy...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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