Pimlach Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, Randall Flagg said: Uh, what I saw was talked about for weeks - the eventual game 7 GWG was scored while Marchand lollygagged to the bench while the Blues were rushing, abandoning his man who eventually scored the goal. It was ripped on by national media in real time during the game and intermission, and is one of a million examples of the fact that bad effort plays are universal to all levels of hockey ability and all qualities of organizations, even on the biggest stage. I'm just not interested in THAT play, in which Sam was well aware he wasn't going to catch the fastest skater in the east even if he hadn't been out for a minute and forty seconds, becoming some bullsh*t watershed moment for us to pretend it's okay to lose another good player for pennies on the dollar, like some people cackling over the ROR trade tried to explain at the time. Marchand is a Superstar. His name is on a Cup. He is one of the main reasons that the Bruins are perennial contenders, I hope Reinhart can live up to that billing. Until he does, I see no comparing the efforts of those two players. I am not saying trade Reinhart because of that play. Who ever said trade Reinhart for pennies on the dollar? I have said that I don't want Reinhart to be traded, mostly because I do not think JBOT can win a trade involving Reinhart. Why would i trust him to trade an important asset. The swap of Scandella for Frolik, we all understand why they made it, but even that trade has not made us any better. In fact, Jokiharju's game is off since the trade. The root of this teams problems are both talent and effort There is not enough talent to run four NHL caliber lines. Unfortunately, there is not enough effort to overcome the lack of talent. So, if you are going to call out your teammates for effort, then don't get caught up ice to give up a goal in the last second of the period. I read that Coach Krueger says there is no problem with Sam's effort. Talk to the Coach about why he had a 1:42 second shift. Long shifts and overplaying players till the point they cannot compete. You saw the OT. Long shifts, early period goals against, late period goals against, a bad PK, a bad PP, lost faceoffs - this is all enough to get Kruger fired, which would be sad, but Sam and the gang will move on to Coach number 4. Edited February 7, 2020 by Pimlach 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmel Corn Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, Pimlach said: Marchand is a Superstar. His name is on a Cup. He is one of the main reasons that the Bruins are perennial contenders, I hope Reinhart can live up to that billing. Until he does, I see no comparing the efforts of those two players. I am not saying trade Reinhart because of that play. Who ever said trade Reinhart for pennies on the dollar? I have said that I don't want Reinhart to be traded, mostly because I do not think JBOT can win a trade involving Reinhart. Why would i trust him to trade an important asset. The swap of Scandella for Frolik, we all understand why they made it, but even that trade has not made us any better. In fact, Jokiharju's game is off since the trade. The root of this teams problems are both talent and effort There is not enough talent to run four NHL caliber lines. Unfortunately, there is no enough effort to overcome the lack of talent. So, if you are going to call out your teammates for effort, then don't get caught up ice to give up a goal in the last second of the period. I read that Coach Krueger says there is no problem with Sam's effort. Talk to the Coach about why had a 1:42 second shift. Long shifts and overplaying players till the point they cannot compete. You saw the OT. Long shifts, early period goals against, late period goals against, a bad PK, a bad PP, lost faceoffs - this is all enough to get Kruger fired, which would be sad, but Sam and the gang will move on to Coach number 4. IMHO - Marchand is also a bargain. Signed a long-term agreement with a reasonable cap hit ($6.1MM?) when he could have easily commanded more. Regardless of anybody's opinion of Sam, I don't see his next contract being in the low $6MM range. Also agree that we are overplaying our top forwards and seeing shifts that are too long. This is what happens when you play from behind most of the time and have a ridiculous 11-7 roster many games (although not last night). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Forecheck Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 The watershed event mentally for this team was when Tampa took advantage of us during the 2 game series. Guys like Maroon, Kucherov and Cernak were taking liberties and we wussied out. Oh and our talent level is inferior and injured to a certain extent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimlach Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 6 minutes ago, Carmel Corn said: IMHO - Marchand is also a bargain. Signed a long-term agreement with a reasonable cap hit ($6.1MM?) when he could have easily commanded more. Regardless of anybody's opinion of Sam, I don't see his next contract being in the low $6MM range. Also agree that we are overplaying our top forwards and seeing shifts that are too long. This is what happens when you play from behind most of the time and have a ridiculous 11-7 roster many games (although not last night). Some players on winning teams, with winning cultures, will sign deals like Marchand did. I would sign Sam to an extension at $6.1M right now. It will be interesting to see what happens. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pi2000 Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Torpedo Forecheck said: I get the blood and guts that every coach tries to instill in his players. The reality is the play people are complaining about happens multiple times every game. Keeping your feet moving all the time may a nice goal, but it doesn't occur. Players have an internal instinct at work, especially strong offensive players, they skate hard to a spot and then analyze where to go next. For all we know he started gliding to see his next move towards a rebound after realizing the shot wasn't going to be prevented. Gliding is sometimes the right play. I could see Jack doing the same thing or not catching Larkin going full speed. Look ideally everyone skates and moves their feet all the time, won't happen. And, if this was the biggest problem the Sabres have we'd be all set as a franchise. It is an ongoing battle between players and coaches when a player stops and comes up short and a rebound goes in. It happens on teams as good as the Bruins with Marchand. Coach gets on them, they focus on it for awhile, drift away from when there's no goals against, no harm no foul and then bingo it happens. Cycle repeats. Again I wish this was our biggest problem. Gliding was the wrong play here. He was not at top speed when he pulled up. He took his last stride at the blue line, coasted in, leaned back on his heels, two hands on his stick off the ice. At least make a desperate attempt, skate hard to the hash marks, take a penalty, dive, do something... act like you care. The fact we are even having this discussion is alarming.... trying to excuse a guy for coasting... and you wonder why the TEAM is struggling. Year after year after year with this group of players there are long stretches where the effort level comes into question. You want a culture change? Then a good start would be NOT throwing $7-8mil/yr at a player that does THAT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PASabreFan Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 46 minutes ago, Pimlach said: Some players on winning teams, with winning cultures, will sign deals like Marchand did. I would sign Sam to an extension at $6.1M right now. It will be interesting to see what happens. Think his agent would agree to that? It's going to be a lot closer to what Skinner got than $6 million. Another reason the Skinner contract was a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torpedo Forecheck Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 14 minutes ago, pi2000 said: Gliding was the wrong play here. He was not at top speed when he pulled up. He took his last stride at the blue line, coasted in, leaned back on his heels, two hands on his stick off the ice. At least make a desperate attempt, skate hard to the hash marks, take a penalty, dive, do something... act like you care. The fact we are even having this discussion is alarming.... trying to excuse a guy for coasting... and you wonder why the TEAM is struggling. Year after year after year with this group of players there are long stretches where the effort level comes into question. You want a culture change? Then a good start would be NOT throwing $7-8mil/yr at a player that does THAT. This play which is being given way...to much credence as to the problem with the team, had no impact on the game. It was a goal. Again I wish solving the Sabres problems was as simple as you believe. Just work a little harder and all is good. The good players setting a bad example Yadda Yadda Yadda We are struggling mostly because we don't have enough talent and have injuries to boot. Look, I know people are frustrated and it easy to focus on the stars and look for petty little things. Jack isn't McDavid, only 95% of him and crap like that. This whole Reinhart thing is beyond petty and misses the point, because it had no bearing on the outcome of the game. Now the Montour defensive lapse goal is a bigger problem, not an effort issue. But, the fact that he would leave the front in that situation is mind boggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randall Flagg Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 2 hours ago, Pimlach said: Marchand is a Superstar. His name is on a Cup. He is one of the main reasons that the Bruins are perennial contenders, I hope Reinhart can live up to that billing. Until he does, I see no comparing the efforts of those two players. I am not saying trade Reinhart because of that play. Who ever said trade Reinhart for pennies on the dollar? I have said that I don't want Reinhart to be traded, mostly because I do not think JBOT can win a trade involving Reinhart. Why would i trust him to trade an important asset. The swap of Scandella for Frolik, we all understand why they made it, but even that trade has not made us any better. In fact, Jokiharju's game is off since the trade. The root of this teams problems are both talent and effort There is not enough talent to run four NHL caliber lines. Unfortunately, there is not enough effort to overcome the lack of talent. So, if you are going to call out your teammates for effort, then don't get caught up ice to give up a goal in the last second of the period. I read that Coach Krueger says there is no problem with Sam's effort. Talk to the Coach about why he had a 1:42 second shift. Long shifts and overplaying players till the point they cannot compete. You saw the OT. Long shifts, early period goals against, late period goals against, a bad PK, a bad PP, lost faceoffs - this is all enough to get Kruger fired, which would be sad, but Sam and the gang will move on to Coach number 4. The comparison of the effort of the two players is logically consistent. We've each identified one similar flaw from two players who have played thousands of minutes of hockey over the last few years. You gave the Bruins some mythical status where you don't see this happen, so I provided an instance of it not only happening, but happening at a far more inexcusable situation. That is all this comparison really is - pointing out that the narrative you painted was flawed. Agreed on not wanting Jason handling any more deals - and I'm not even opposed to a Reinhart swap. I just don't want some off-ice, fan/media blown up narrative leading to something stupid happening again. The fact is, you can isolate effort plays like this for every player in the NHL every season, and I see no evidence that Sam is worse about it than others, so if you're going to trade him fine, but make a case that's more grounded than the flare up of anti-Sam resentment after that play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 3 hours ago, Carmel Corn said: IMHO - Marchand is also a bargain. Signed a long-term agreement with a reasonable cap hit ($6.1MM?) when he could have easily commanded more. Regardless of anybody's opinion of Sam, I don't see his next contract being in the low $6MM range. Also agree that we are overplaying our top forwards and seeing shifts that are too long. This is what happens when you play from behind most of the time and have a ridiculous 11-7 roster many games (although not last night). The reason he’s under a great contract is because the Bruins signed him to a great extension before his breakout like many were saying we should have done with Sam. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorny Posted February 7, 2020 Report Share Posted February 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said: The comparison of the effort of the two players is logically consistent. We've each identified one similar flaw from two players who have played thousands of minutes of hockey over the last few years. You gave the Bruins some mythical status where you don't see this happen, so I provided an instance of it not only happening, but happening at a far more inexcusable situation. That is all this comparison really is - pointing out that the narrative you painted was flawed. Agreed on not wanting Jason handling any more deals - and I'm not even opposed to a Reinhart swap. I just don't want some off-ice, fan/media blown up narrative leading to something stupid happening again. The fact is, you can isolate effort plays like this for every player in the NHL every season, and I see no evidence that Sam is worse about it than others, so if you're going to trade him fine, but make a case that's more grounded than the flare up of anti-Sam resentment after that play. I get what you are saying and I agree but I’m tired of the blame being laid at the fans feet for this type of thing. The fans didn’t trade ROR, management did. If they felt compelled to go against their better judgment due to pressure from the fans, they shouldn’t be our management. If they trade Reinhart for a inadequate return, it’s again on management. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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