Sabres becoming a perennial playoff team

[Weave]

9 minutes ago, Gatorman0519 said:

75% of the roster needs to be turned over.  With good drafting and development and good FA signings that will probably take 4-5 years to truly become a mature contender.  That is IF we draft and sign the right guys.  There is no quick fix to this.  

Right. There is no quick fix.  The cupboards are way too bare.  Perennial implies that we have players in Roc well along enough in the development cycle to step in and be effective.  We aren’t even at the point yet where we have enough NHL players capable of moving up a line as needed, let alone guys in the A ready to step in.

Suffering wasn’t sold hard enough as a long range possibility, even though it was a likely outcome of a complete tear down.

[Radar]

16 hours ago, Taro T said:

One good off-season is all it takes.

Overly optimistic I believe. This team needs to add at least 2-3 quality players capable of impacting a game. Their not readily available. Not much in our pipeline and our tradeable assets that would fetch something are few. You are looking at first round picks and high ones most likely. Not going to happen.

[LTS]

1 hour ago, Sabre1974 said:

I'm just fed up with the whole situation. Probably why I've not posted much this last week

See, that's a smart thing.  Coming here to read and post, if you are already agitated, is only going to agitate you more.  Best to just step away and find something else to fill in the time so you can stay a happier person.

I applaud you.

[SwampD]

17 hours ago, Taro T said:

One good off-season is all it takes.

Yep.

[PASabreFan]

Paul Wieland wrote that bit for Mike and Lindy!

[PASabreFan]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

Right. There is no quick fix.  The cupboards are way too bare.  Perennial implies that we have players in Roc well along enough in the development cycle to step in and be effective.  We aren’t even at the point yet where we have enough NHL players capable of moving up a line as needed, let alone guys in the A ready to step in.

Suffering wasn’t sold hard enough as a long range possibility, even though it was a likely outcome of a complete tear down.

Do you think Darcy believed the Sabres would need 10-15 years to recover?

[GASabresIUFAN]

"The cupboards are bare."  LOL

I'm sorry, but that's funny.

Core Forwards (age) - Eichel (23), Reinhart (24), Skinner (27) and VO (24).  Upcoming Forwards Cozens (19), Routsalainen (22), Mitts (21), Asplund (22), Thompson (22)

Core Defense (age) - Dahlin (19), Jokiharhu (20), Ristolainen (25) and Montour (25).  Depth D - Pilut (24), Miller (27), McCabe (26).  Upcoming D Borgen (23) Samuelsson (20), Johnson (19), Laaksonen (20), Bryson (22), and Fitzgerald (22)

Goaltending Depth - Ullmark (26), Johansson (24), UPL (20)

This is so far from having a bare cupboard.  Where this team lacks depth is only at 2C and 3C right now. That's it.  Jbot (or his replacement) adds a legit 2C, Cozens (or Mitts) comes in and plays a decent 3C, and they get another decent goaltender (which may be Johansson) this is a playoff team.  The reason this team is not effective offensively is that we have no catalysts at center other then Jack.  Vesey, Skinner, and even Frolik can and have scored in this league, but none really are offensive catalysts. They need some to feed them the puck. Jbot thought, incorrectly for this season, that MoJo and Mitts were ready to do that. They weren't.

The defense is solid, Ullmark was mostly steady until he got hurt.  

I'm sick of the losing as much as anyone.  My first game was the Sabres first game 50 years ago.  I've been more then patient.  However to act like there is nothing here is simply wrong.  This team is fixable and it not far away from taking a huge step forward.   

[calti]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

"The cupboards are bare."  LOL

I'm sorry, but that's funny.

Core Forwards (age) - Eichel (23), Reinhart (24), Skinner (27) and VO (24).  Upcoming Forwards Cozens (19), Routsalainen (22), Mitts (21), Asplund (22), Thompson (22)

Core Defense (age) - Dahlin (19), Jokiharhu (20), Ristolainen (25) and Montour (25).  Depth D - Pilut (24), Miller (27), McCabe (26).  Upcoming D Borgen (23) Samuelsson (20), Johnson (19), Laaksonen (20), Bryson (22), and Fitzgerald (22)

Goaltending Depth - Ullmark (26), Johansson (24), UPL (20)

This is so far from having a bare cupboard.  Where this team lacks depth is only at 2C and 3C right now. That's it.  Jbot (or his replacement) adds a legit 2C, Cozens (or Mitts) comes in and plays a decent 3C, and they get another decent goaltender (which may be Johansson) this is a playoff team.  The reason this team is not effective offensively is that we have no catalysts at center other then Jack.  Vesey, Skinner, and even Frolik can and have scored in this league, but none really are offensive catalysts. They need some to feed them the puck. Jbot thought, incorrectly for this season, that MoJo and Mitts were ready to do that. They weren't.

The defense is solid, Ullmark was mostly steady until he got hurt.  

I'm sick of the losing as much as anyone.  My first game was the Sabres first game 50 years ago.  I've been more then patient.  However to act like there is nothing here is simply wrong.  This team is fixable and it not far away from taking a huge step forward.   

most of those players are just not that good. Yeah its not bare...but the quality is low.

[Ogre]

23 hours ago, Taro T said:

One good off-season is all it takes.

Then they would be a decennial playoff team, eh?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, calti said:

most of those players are just not that good. Yeah its not bare...but the quality is low.

That's just not true.  Our top 4 D are mostly young, improving and very talented.  Jack is an elite player.  Reinhart is a top 50 forward and VO and Skinner are high end 30+ goal scorers with the right centers.  That's the core and they are all good players.  We now have to supplement from there.  Cozens and a more confident Mitts add to our depth at forward and they will eventually, (probably sooner then later) become good players.  

Ullmark is a decent to good goalie and UPL is a star in the making.  We need to bolster Ullmark until UPL is ready.  His play in Rochester the other night is a the first clue that he is very very talented and capable.  

As to the rest of the prospects no one here has any real idea of how good some of them will become.  We don't need most of them to become stars.  We need them to develop into NHL quality depth.  That's it. 

Wheeler's article on our pipeline in the Athletic made it pretty clear that there is NHL quality talent in the pipeline, but it does need time to develop.  

This off-season we have maneuvered out of cap hell.  Remember how the Bills have taken off once they got rid of the dead cap weight.  This off-season will be Jbot's opportunity to finally fix the on ice product.  

[Weave]

Irrational exuberance. The young players on the roster now are good pieces.  That’s not the cupboard though.  Rochester and juniors is the cupboard.  Outside of Cozens and maybe UPL there just isn’t anything to be excited about.  

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Do you think Darcy believed the Sabres would need 10-15 years to recover?

Who knows? He did say the owner would determine the extent of the rebuild.

[Radar]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's just not true.  Our top 4 D are mostly young, improving and very talented.  Jack is an elite player.  Reinhart is a top 50 forward and VO and Skinner are high end 30+ goal scorers with the right centers.  That's the core and they are all good players.  We now have to supplement from there.  Cozens and a more confident Mitts add to our depth at forward and they will eventually, (probably sooner then later) become good players.  

Ullmark is a decent to good goalie and UPL is a star in the making.  We need to bolster Ullmark until UPL is ready.  His play in Rochester the other night is a the first clue that he is very very talented and capable.  

As to the rest of the prospects no one here has any real idea of how good some of them will become.  We don't need most of them to become stars.  We need them to develop into NHL quality depth.  That's it. 

Wheeler's article on our pipeline in the Athletic made it pretty clear that there is NHL quality talent in the pipeline, but it does need time to develop.  

This off-season we have maneuvered out of cap hell.  Remember how the Bills have taken off once they got rid of the dead cap weight.  This off-season will be Jbot's opportunity to finally fix the on ice product.  

Hope you're right but I've entered the show me and I'll believe it phase. Certainly before spending one red cent on tickets and other garb.

[Andrew Amerk]

Whoever posted that we only need a 2C and 3C is way off. 

We need a 2C, another 2nd line winger, and an entire 3rd line. MOJO would be great on a 3rd line, so maybe we need 4 players. 

Better pray JBott has an actual plan for this offseason, and stop trying to rush Cozens like we’ve done with so many other shiny new toys in the past. 

Edited February 2, 2020 by Andrew Amerk

[#freejame]

9 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Whoever posted that we only need a 2C and 3C is way off. 

We need a 2C, another 2nd line winger, and an entire 3rd line. MOJO would be great on a 3rd line, so maybe we need 4 players. 

Better pray JBott has an actual plan for this offseason, and stop trying to rush Cozens like we’ve done with so many other shiny new toys in the past. 

The way I see it is we have four top six players and two middle six players then a bunch of trash. There’s a lot of work that needs to be done to be competitive. 

[LabattBlue]

13 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Whoever posted that we only need a 2C and 3C is way off. 

We need a 2C, another 2nd line winger, and an entire 3rd line. MOJO would be great on a 3rd line, so maybe we need 4 players. 

Better pray JBott has an actual plan for this offseason, and stop trying to rush Cozens like we’ve done with so many other shiny new toys in the past. 

I'd also add that we need energy players on the 4th line...such as guys like Foligno, Deslauriers and Carrier.  ?  Someone that when the team needs a shot in the arm, he is going to go out there and put a few players into the boards.

[Carmel Corn]

14 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

Whoever posted that we only need a 2C and 3C is way off. 

We need a 2C, another 2nd line winger, and an entire 3rd line. MOJO would be great on a 3rd line, so maybe we need 4 players. 

Better pray JBott has an actual plan for this offseason, and stop trying to rush Cozens like we’ve done with so many other shiny new toys in the past. 

I agree with this assessment.  The cupboard as mentioned by somebody else is pretty bare and offers very little quality top 6 caliber players.  The problem is that this organization will force them to play top 6 because they don't have anybody better.

As far as JBot's plan, my fear is that he'll try to restock the vacancies with either other bottom 6 players from other teams and/or possibly re-sign some of the current roster players that aren't getting the job done now.  Either way, it's not going to fill the void of true top 6 talent.  

I really wish ownership would take away the keys from JBot before he is trusted with one of the largest off-season makeovers we'll ever see...as he is drunk on soft and heartless players. 

 

[mjd1001]

2 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

I agree with this assessment.  The cupboard as mentioned by somebody else is pretty bare and offers very little quality top 6 caliber players.  The problem is that this organization will force them to play top 6 because they don't have anybody better.

As far as JBot's plan, my fear is that he'll try to restock the vacancies with either other bottom 6 players from other teams and/or possibly re-sign some of the current roster players that aren't getting the job done now.  Either way, it's not going to fill the void of true top 6 talent.  

I really wish ownership would take away the keys from JBot before he is trusted with one of the largest off-season makeovers we'll ever see...as he is drunk on soft and heartless players. 

 

I'll add my agreement to this. Someone above laughed at the notion of the cupboard being bare....but it really is.  Of course there are players there that are young, but no of them is jumping off the ice and looking like a legit top 6 nhl guy now.  If one or more of them really develops into that....well then of course we all want that..but there is little in Rochester that shows the Sabres will be getting a few legit top 6 forwards from there.

With that said...the situation is not totally hopeless.  You have Eichel, Olofsson, probably Reinhart, and Skinner. That SHOULD be 4 out of 6 top 2- line positions. Is it easy to get 2 more legit top 6 guys...no its not easy...but 4/6 of the way there is not hopeless.  Fill those spots....have a 'young guy' 3rd line (Cozens EVENTUALLY, Thompson, maybe Mitts?) and a 4th line that gets only a bit of ice time 5 on 5 but has some quality penalty killing players...now you are competitive up front.

So this team could be in the playoffs next year...just i am not betting on it myself. Its not that I think JBott is awful..its just it has been so long since this team has been good...I need to see it happen before I believe it.

[Doohickie]

19-20

[calti]

On 2/1/2020 at 11:52 AM, GASabresIUFAN said:

That's just not true.  Our top 4 D are mostly young, improving and very talented.  Jack is an elite player.  Reinhart is a top 50 forward and VO and Skinner are high end 30+ goal scorers with the right centers.  That's the core and they are all good players.  We now have to supplement from there.  Cozens and a more confident Mitts add to our depth at forward and they will eventually, (probably sooner then later) become good players.  

Ullmark is a decent to good goalie and UPL is a star in the making.  We need to bolster Ullmark until UPL is ready.  His play in Rochester the other night is a the first clue that he is very very talented and capable.  

As to the rest of the prospects no one here has any real idea of how good some of them will become.  We don't need most of them to become stars.  We need them to develop into NHL quality depth.  That's it. 

Wheeler's article on our pipeline in the Athletic made it pretty clear that there is NHL quality talent in the pipeline, but it does need time to develop.  

This off-season we have maneuvered out of cap hell.  Remember how the Bills have taken off once they got rid of the dead cap weight.  This off-season will be Jbot's opportunity to finally fix the on ice product.  

reinhardt is soft...skinner is above average.. any core featuring reinhardt and skinner isnt that good.

our core is eichel and dahlin---and half that core is not even a very good defenseman at this point

[#freejame]

4 minutes ago, calti said:

reinhardt is soft...skinner is above average.. any core featuring reinhardt and skinner isnt that good.

our core is eichel and dahlin---and half that core is not even a very good defenseman at this point

How many players deep is a core and can you provide a few examples of young cores that you prefer? I don’t like this team at all but we have six-ish NHL rostered players to build around (Samson, Eichel, Skinner, Olofsson, Joki, Dahlin). Our biggest issue is we don’t have the pieces to round out the top six, we only have one genuine third liner, and two (sometimes) properly slotted fourth lines who are both overpaid for their role in the modern NHL. 

[Kruppstahl]

14 hours ago, #freejame said:

How many players deep is a core and can you provide a few examples of young cores that you prefer? I don’t like this team at all but we have six-ish NHL rostered players to build around (Samson, Eichel, Skinner, Olofsson, Joki, Dahlin). Our biggest issue is we don’t have the pieces to round out the top six, we only have one genuine third liner, and two (sometimes) properly slotted fourth lines who are both overpaid for their role in the modern NHL. 

I think Reinhart will be moved at some point not too far from now.

I like Joker a lot, but I'm not sure I'd call him a core piece; he's a step down from that.

Olofsson remains a mystery IMO; too soon to call him a core piece too.

Hell, it's too early to call Dahlin a core piece.  He has a very, very long way to go before he becomes the next Lidstrom we were all promised, and it's not going to happen simply b/c he was projected to be that guy.  It's not a given or automatic that he will ever become what we want.

Look at Tyler Myers.  He's still nothing close to what we thought he would be and he's never going to be.

Needless to say, I would think of Dahlin as a "core piece" in terms of planning; I would not move him for anything, I don't think.

My point is we don't have as many solid pieces right now as some would suggest.

 

[apuszczalowski]

Are the numbers in the poll the amount of years? Cause at their rate, 23+ years could be a good bet.......