Jbot needs to go

[Randall Flagg]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I agree.  It something that should have been addressed properly this off-season, instead of relying on a converted winger and a kid to try to fill the 2C role.  This is a mistake that could cost him his job as many people here think it should.  I don’t think it will, but he better have a better solution for next fall then Cozens and Mitts as the 2C and 3C.  He needs a proven commodity at the 2C and I’m praying he gets one now, especially with he price of D being sky high.

Yep. Though I don't think he's gonna get one now. I know he's trying (yes, we hear you, 15 different hockey "analysts" tweeting that he's trying) but this is not the time that teams are willing to part with these kind of players for the kind of return they would get

[Sabre fan]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

You guys all realize he's not going anywhere right? 

Exactly...he isn't going anywhere soon. Must say it is pretty sad though when a guy he dumped gets such a good return a month later. I find the biggest problem with JBotto is that he trades out of spite or dislike of a guy (OReilly, kane Lehner etc) and he just gets rid of them instead of actually trying to make a hockey trade. He is hell-bent on getting rid of anybody EX GMTM brought in not named Jack and was in such a hurry to get rid of players that actually had the nerve to say they wanted to win that he got virtually nothing in return,  Still find it funny that there are people that still defend those terrible trades (OReilly Kane) and try to somehow justify what JBotto did and what he got in return.  hell Lehner would be better then Hutton right about now....which isn't saying much I suppose...

[nfreeman]

21 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m not sure that’s correct. He was handed a team in cap hell with a terrible D group and few good prospects.  Joker for Nylander was a great trade. Miller for Picks was good value.  Skinner for Pu and stuff was an excellent trade.  Others like Scandy and Pommers for Ennis and Foligno is solid.  I also don’t mind the Montour trade, because I think Montour is a good player.  I like the Pilut and Routsalainen signings to help enhance the prospect pool.

He has also turned Rochester into a winning team, maneuvered us out of cap hell this summer while slowing improving the product on the ice.  Our GF are up in real terms and adjusted terms and our GA are down in real and adjusted terms.  We are on pace for 85 points which his better then the vet laden teams of TM’s best season.  We also have some top notch prospects like Cozens, UPL and even Mitts who will be arriving soon.  

The biggest complaint against Jbot is that he traded away ROR and hasn’t adequately replaced him for two seasons.  This is huge and valid complaint.  Imho if he had found a real center we’d be a playoff team right now and the acquisitions of Vesey and Sheary would have borne more fruit. However, my guess is TP and KP will give him one more year to see if he can fix that problem and if he does and the team makes the playoffs in 2020-21the hot seat will go away.

I agree with a lot of this, but it's a bit too rose-colored IMHO.

I don't think it's fair to say that JB has maneuvered the Sabres out of cap hell.  He didn't figure a clever way out of the KO, Moulson and Hunwick deals -- the Sabres just had to keep taking those hits.  Until Bogo flaked, they were capped out, and it's still a consideration now at the deadline (and let's not forget the Berglund cap windfall).  And a big reason they are capped out is the plethora of overpaid guys brought in by JB like Hunwick, Sobotka, Sheary, Frolik, etc.  Again, a team tight against the cap shouldn't be this bad.

I also think the failure to bring in a quality goaltender is unacceptable, especially after Hutton made it clear last year that he can't do the job.

As for the prospect pool, every team has good prospects.  The Sabres' prospect pool was just ranked #16 in the NHL by the Athletic, FWIW.  So nothing special there.

Bottom line is that he's accountable for the results.  If the results are 85 points, as you note, that's probably good enough to buy him another offseason.  But if they end up with 76 or 78 pts, which could easily happen -- he could easily get canned.

[Indabuff]

39 minutes ago, ... said:

Then WTH are you making a quip about it? 

The Pegulas got owned in the sports media of two countries - utterly embarrassed - by the unfolding of the entire Duane episode. If they're NOT paying attention to it, if they're NOT making decisions "based on Duane" then they deserve more and more and more Duane and God help the fans.

<commences production of #Duane2020 shirts>

[PerreaultForever]

Can anyone still defend JBot (and if so how?) when he flips his UFA for a 4th rounder, flips that for another half assed UFA and then watches the first trade partner flip same asset for a 2nd plus a cond. 4th? 

Does he just have the St. Louis number on block after the ROR fleecing or what? 

There simply is no defense for this level of incompetence. 

[Cheektorado]

9 hours ago, WildCard said:

You guys all realize he's not going anywhere right? 

It will most likely be so.  These are the times that tries men's souls.

[Pimlach]

The day is ending.  No trade by JBot.  I like that.  I prefer that.  I don’t see him improving our center situation at the deadline.  No need to spend assets if he can’t do that.  

[Scottysabres]

33 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

The day is ending.  No trade by JBot.  I like that.  I prefer that.  I don’t see him improving our center situation at the deadline.  No need to spend assets if he can’t do that.  

I think he's going to bring in Trocheck from Florida. We don't play again until Saturday, he has time before then. And I don't think that's the only deal he'll make, I think another goalie is coming in as well. Along with another player or 2 to boot.

I believe Botterill wants the playoffs, and I think he's going to bolster the roster to push up on Toronto and Florida. Just a hunch.

[freester]

10 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I’m not sure that’s correct. He was handed a team in cap hell with a terrible D group and few good prospects.  Joker for Nylander was a great trade. Miller for Picks was good value.  Skinner for Pu and stuff was an excellent trade.  Others like Scandy and Pommers for Ennis and Foligno is solid.  I also don’t mind the Montour trade, because I think Montour is a good player.  I like the Pilut and Routsalainen signings to help enhance the prospect pool.

He has also turned Rochester into a winning team, maneuvered us out of cap hell this summer while slowing improving the product on the ice.  Our GF are up in real terms and adjusted terms and our GA are down in real and adjusted terms.  We are on pace for 85 points which his better then the vet laden teams of TM’s best season.  We also have some top notch prospects like Cozens, UPL and even Mitts who will be arriving soon.  

The biggest complaint against Jbot is that he traded away ROR and hasn’t adequately replaced him for two seasons.  This is huge and valid complaint.  Imho if he had found a real center we’d be a playoff team right now and the acquisitions of Vesey and Sheary would have borne more fruit. However, my guess is TP and KP will give him one more year to see if he can fix that problem and if he does and the team makes the playoffs in 2020-21the hot seat will go away.

 

Yep.

EDIT: Rumor has it that he is looking to trade a D for a top 6 forward with term.  That forward better be a C only.  

I think you may be the last Botteril supporter. I read a post on HF boards that sounded like you. If it wasn’t you posting than you have company. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

54 minutes ago, freester said:

I think you may be the last Botteril supporter. I read a post on HF boards that sounded like you. If it wasn’t you posting than you have company. 

I only post here.  However, it's kind of sad given the circumstances that most everyone is saying fire Jbot already.  This organization needs to follow through with a plan for a change rather then change course again for the 5th time since TP bought the team.  The franchise needs stability.  

I'm also not some blind loyalist either.  I have been vocal on my displeasure regarding the return for Kane, the Frolik/Scandella trade (I'm the person who called Frolik Sobotka 2) and agree that trading ROR for a mistake.  I've also yelled in many threads for Jbot to get off his butt and do something to support this team.  However, when I look at where TM left us and where we are now, I feel the Sabres and the entire franchise is much better off and moving in the right direction, especially with some real cap space this summer to improve the team.

[sabremike]

4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I only post here.  However, it's kind of sad given the circumstances that most everyone is saying fire Jbot already.  This organization needs to follow through with a plan for a change rather then change course again for the 5th time since TP bought the team.  The franchise needs stability.  

I'm also not some blind loyalist either.  I have been vocal on my displeasure regarding the return for Kane, the Frolik/Scandella trade (I'm the person who called Frolik Sobotka 2) and agree that trading ROR for a mistake.  I've also yelled in many threads for Jbot to get off his butt and do something to support this team.  However, when I look at where TM left us and where we are now, I feel the Sabres and the entire franchise is much better off and moving in the right direction, especially with some real cap space this summer to improve the team.

If the Cult of Stability meant anything both the Milbury and Garth Islanders would've matched the accomplishments of the dynasty era. Keeping a completely incompetent person in charge will simply give him more time to inflict more damage on your organization. The only way you get real stability is to hire people who are actually good at their job, and we need to find that person NOW because if we don't nothing is going to change.

[freester]

2 hours ago, sabremike said:

If the Cult of Stability meant anything both the Milbury and Garth Islanders would've matched the accomplishments of the dynasty era. Keeping a completely incompetent person in charge will simply give him more time to inflict more damage on your organization. The only way you get real stability is to hire people who are actually good at their job, and we need to find that person NOW because if we don't nothing is going to change.

This

[Kristian]

7 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I only post here.  However, it's kind of sad given the circumstances that most everyone is saying fire Jbot already.  This organization needs to follow through with a plan for a change rather then change course again for the 5th time since TP bought the team.  The franchise needs stability.  

I'm also not some blind loyalist either.  I have been vocal on my displeasure regarding the return for Kane, the Frolik/Scandella trade (I'm the person who called Frolik Sobotka 2) and agree that trading ROR for a mistake.  I've also yelled in many threads for Jbot to get off his butt and do something to support this team.  However, when I look at where TM left us and where we are now, I feel the Sabres and the entire franchise is much better off and moving in the right direction, especially with some real cap space this summer to improve the team.

The franchise has stability if ever saw it - We’ve been crap for 10+ years.

That’s as stable as it gets.

[GASabresIUFAN]

50 minutes ago, Kristian said:

The franchise has stability if ever saw it - We’ve been crap for 10+ years.

That’s as stable as it gets.

 

4 hours ago, sabremike said:

If the Cult of Stability meant anything both the Milbury and Garth Islanders would've matched the accomplishments of the dynasty era. Keeping a completely incompetent person in charge will simply give him more time to inflict more damage on your organization. The only way you get real stability is to hire people who are actually good at their job, and we need to find that person NOW because if we don't nothing is going to change.

How exactly is Jbot responsible for the mistakes made before he got here? 

By what objective measures is Jbot incompetent? Have the Amerks improved since he got here? Yes.  Is his drafting poor?  We don’t know yet but it is showing promise.  Is the pipeline better?  I believe it is, especially at D and goaltending.  Cap management?  Not perfect but considering this will be the first offseason with substantial cap space since TM spent us in oblivion, I’d say a passing grade.  What about trades? Mixed, some great ( Joker and Skinner) some good (Scandella in), some below average (Scandella out and Kane) and one terrible so far (ROR).  

The next and most important question is are the Sabres better? They are on their highest point pace since before TM.  They are scoring more goals in real and adjusted terms and giving up less in real and adjusted terms since before TM.  

This team is far from complete and Jbot has made some big errors (like not replacing ROR quickly) but the trend is in the right direction.  At worst he deserves another season to see if he can get the team into the playoffs.

FYI Snow was GM with the Islanders for 12 years and Milbury for 11 years.   Not really legit comparisons with Jbot but posting without doing research is a habit around here. 

Edited February 20, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[bob_sauve28]

https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/19/buffalo-sabres-nhl-jason-botterill-ralph-krueger-ottawa-senators-terry-pegula-kim-pegula-marco-scandella-zach-bogosian-news-2020/

 

Quote

The NHL trade deadline is Monday and Botterill has to do something significant here. His golden boy status as the NHL's next great GM-in-waiting has long since been frittered away, the glow of the 2016 and 2017 Stanley Cups won with Pittsburgh rendered meaningless.

Like what? We are pretty much out of it and nothing a trade will do to fix that. 

[bob_sauve28]

2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

How exactly is Jbot responsible for the mistakes made before he got here? 

By what objective measures is Jbot incompetent? Have the Amerks improved since he got here? Yes.  Is his drafting poor?  We don’t know yet but it is showing promise?  Is the pipeline better?  I believe it is, especially at D and goaltending.  Cap management?  Not perfect but considering this will be the first offseason with substantial cap space I’d say a passing grade.  What about trades? Mixed some great ( Joker and Skinner) some good (Scandella in), some below average (Scandella out) and one terrible so far (ROR).  

The next and most important question is are the Sabres better? They are on their highest point pace since before TM.  They are scoring more goals in real and adjusted terms and giving up less in real and adjusted terms since before TM.  

This team is far from complete and Jbot has made some big errors (like not replacing ROR quickly) but the trend is in the right direction.  At worst he deserves another season to see if he can get the team into the playoffs.

FYI Snow was GM with the Islanders for 12 years and Milbury for 11 years.   Not really legit comparisons with Jbot.

How is goaltending better in the pipeline? Just asking because I have no idea, not trying to be critical or argumentative. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 minutes ago, bob_sauve28 said:

How is goaltending better in the pipeline? Just asking because I have no idea, not trying to be critical or argumentative. 

We have three legit prospects at the position.  One, Johansson, is close to NHL ready, another, UPL, who is in the top 5 of prospects at the position and will be the starter next year in Roch and lastly Pirillo who stared at the WJr and looks to be developing into a high quality prospect.  Jbot drafted both UPL and Pirillo.

Edited February 20, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[bob_sauve28]

1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We have three legit prospects at the position.  One, Johansson, is close to NHL ready, another, UPL, who is in the top 5 of prospects at the position and will be the starter next year in Roch and lastly Pirillo who stared at the WJr and looks to be developing into a high quality prospect.  Jbot drafted both UPL and Pirillo.

Oh good. That makes me feel a little better. I was actually thinking we should make a play for Brandon Holtby but that sounds expensive 

[Radar]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

I only post here.  However, it's kind of sad given the circumstances that most everyone is saying fire Jbot already.  This organization needs to follow through with a plan for a change rather then change course again for the 5th time since TP bought the team.  The franchise needs stability.  

I'm also not some blind loyalist either.  I have been vocal on my displeasure regarding the return for Kane, the Frolik/Scandella trade (I'm the person who called Frolik Sobotka 2) and agree that trading ROR for a mistake.  I've also yelled in many threads for Jbot to get off his butt and do something to support this team.  However, when I look at where TM left us and where we are now, I feel the Sabres and the entire franchise is much better off and moving in the right direction, especially with some real cap space this summer to improve the team.

On one point I agree. He took over a bad team. I also think the ROR trade was similar to the loss of both Drury and Brier on the teams success. Both set us back for no return. My confidence in Jbott is at a low point. Frankly his future rides on the off season and he better improve this to a playoff team of he's gone. Pegula won't fire him at this point in my opinion.

 

 

[Ogelthorpe]

23 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

How exactly is Jbot responsible for the mistakes made before he got here? 

By what objective measures is Jbot incompetent? Have the Amerks improved since he got here? Yes.  Is his drafting poor?  We don’t know yet but it is showing promise.  Is the pipeline better?  I believe it is, especially at D and goaltending.  Cap management?  Not perfect but considering this will be the first offseason with substantial cap space since TM spent us in oblivion, I’d say a passing grade.  What about trades? Mixed, some great ( Joker and Skinner) some good (Scandella in), some below average (Scandella out and Kane) and one terrible so far (ROR).  

The next and most important question is are the Sabres better? They are on their highest point pace since before TM.  They are scoring more goals in real and adjusted terms and giving up less in real and adjusted terms since before TM.  

This team is far from complete and Jbot has made some big errors (like not replacing ROR quickly) but the trend is in the right direction.  At worst he deserves another season to see if he can get the team into the playoffs.

FYI Snow was GM with the Islanders for 12 years and Milbury for 11 years.   Not really legit comparisons with Jbot but posting without doing research is a habit around here. 

So is this Mr. or Mrs. Botterill? 

 

15 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

We have three legit prospects at the position.  One, Johansson, is close to NHL ready, another, UPL, who is in the top 5 of prospects at the position and will be the starter next year in Roch and lastly Pirillo who stared at the WJr and looks to be developing into a high quality prospect.  Jbot drafted both UPL and Pirillo.

Its Erik Portillo by the way. Not knowing name kind a throws a wrench into your whole point. Also he was drafted as an overage player, not sure where top prospect comes into that. JBot is trash and pegula needs to stop hiring yes men.

Edited February 20, 2020 by Ogelthorpe

[nfreeman]

6 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

So is this Mr. or Mrs. Botterill? 

 

Its Erik Portillo by the way. Not knowing name kind a throws a wrench into your whole point. Also he was drafted as an overage player, not sure where top prospect comes into that. JBot is trash and pegula needs to stop hiring yes men.

This is obnoxious.

[Ogelthorpe]

2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

This is obnoxious.

Stating an opinion you dont agree with is now obnoxious. Lol

[GASabresIUFAN]

8 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

So is this Mr. or Mrs. Botterill? 

 

Its Erik Portillo by the way. Not knowing name kind a throws a wrench into your whole point. Also he was drafted as an overage player, not sure where top prospect comes into that. JBot is trash and pegula needs to stop hiring yes men.

Cellphone auto correct but thanks for your input.  
I also didn’t say top prospect.  UPL is a top prospect.  
However since I like it help the ignorant.

https://buffalonews.com/2019/11/23/buffalo-sabres-dubuque-fighting-saints-erik-portillo-kalle-larsson-nhl-ushl-news-2019/

[LGR4GM]

10 minutes ago, Ogelthorpe said:

So is this Mr. or Mrs. Botterill? 

 

Its Erik Portillo by the way. Not knowing name kind a throws a wrench into your whole point. Also he was drafted as an overage player, not sure where top prospect comes into that. JBot is trash and pegula needs to stop hiring yes men.

Well his birthday is Sept 3 so it is no wonder he was drafted as an overager.  That is absurdly young for a draft class. 

[freester]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

https://buffalonews.com/2020/02/19/buffalo-sabres-nhl-jason-botterill-ralph-krueger-ottawa-senators-terry-pegula-kim-pegula-marco-scandella-zach-bogosian-news-2020/

 

Like what? We are pretty much out of it and nothing a trade will do to fix that. 

This is the greatest article written about the incompetence of Botteril. 

As fans it is our duty to force the Pegulas hands.  People attending the games must chant in unison loudly "FIRE BOTTERIL NOW'   It's the only way this nightmare is going to end.