Jbot needs to go

[#freejame]

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

The key to the whole thing is that there is a clock ticking in the background the entire time.

The clock is Jack Eichel's peak years as an elite player.

They need to not only get it right, they need to do it pretty darned soon.

 

Jack Eichel is years away from his prime, we’re fine. 

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Hockey is a funny game … The Blues have been trying to win the Cup for decades - Hull and Oates, Cujo, the singing of MacGinnis, Greztky, Shanahan, Stevens, etc,   Being consistently good but never good enough.  Just when I thought they might decline for awhile they fire their coach and hire his assistant.  They pull an obscure minor league goalie up to replace a failing Allen, and they steal ROR from Buffalo and he leads them in just about every statistical category in hockey. 

and what kind of coach did they promote and succeed with? Was it a guy with his head buried in a pile of analytics? No sir, a tough guy who believes in hard work, grit, effort, and finishing your checks. 

[MODO Hockey]

9 hours ago, #freejame said:

Jack Eichel is years away from his prime, we’re fine. 

Could you explain this please

[WildCard]

10 hours ago, #freejame said:

Jack Eichel is years away from his prime, we’re fine. 

He's directly in it 

Edited February 8, 2020 by WildCard

[MODO Hockey]

23 minutes ago, WildCard said:

He's directly in it 

word, how anyone can think jacks prime is years away utterly blows me away

[#freejame]

3 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

Could you explain this please

2 hours ago, WildCard said:

He's directly in it 

2 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

word, how anyone can think jacks prime is years away utterly blows me away

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2646054

National Hockey League forwards reach their peak scoring performance at age 28 and defencemen peak at age 29, while goaltenders show little change in performance based on age, says a new study that crunched the numbers.
 

Brander's team also found that forwards:

• Improve more quickly than they decline and typically begin "a significant decline in their early 30s."
• Perform within 90 per cent of their peak from 24 to 32 years old.
• 25 is their most common age, with 24-27 very similar.

Brander's study also looked at the NHL's elite players, which would include Oates.

Oates joined the NHL at age 23 and stayed for 19 seasons, playing for six teams. When he retired as a player, his assists total was the fifth highest in NHL history. A centre, his highest points per game seasons were when he was 28 and 30 years old. Oates played until he was 41.

Brander's study found that elite forwards are at their peak performance for scoring from age 27 to 29.

"Elite players improve faster initially, continue to improve for slightly longer and experience slower age-related decline," according to Brander. "They do not experience a major drop-off in performance until their late 30s."

I’ve never heard of an NHL player hitting their prime at 23. The league would be substantially younger if that were the case. Most players in the league aren’t even hitting their stride at that age. Jack Eichel is still on the up-and-up. In 3-5 years he’ll plateau for for 2-4 years and those will be his prime scoring years. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by #freejame
Added more from the article

[Randall Flagg]

What that tells me is that we should sign Holtby to be our Fleury ?

[MODO Hockey]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbc.ca/amp/1.2646054

National Hockey League forwards reach their peak scoring performance at age 28 and defencemen peak at age 29, while goaltenders show little change in performance based on age, says a new study that crunched the numbers.
 

Brander's team also found that forwards:

• Improve more quickly than they decline and typically begin "a significant decline in their early 30s."
• Perform within 90 per cent of their peak from 24 to 32 years old.
• 25 is their most common age, with 24-27 very similar.

Brander's study also looked at the NHL's elite players, which would include Oates.

Oates joined the NHL at age 23 and stayed for 19 seasons, playing for six teams. When he retired as a player, his assists total was the fifth highest in NHL history. A centre, his highest points per game seasons were when he was 28 and 30 years old. Oates played until he was 41.

Brander's study found that elite forwards are at their peak performance for scoring from age 27 to 29.

"Elite players improve faster initially, continue to improve for slightly longer and experience slower age-related decline," according to Brander. "They do not experience a major drop-off in performance until their late 30s."

I’ve never heard of an NHL player hitting their prime at 23. The league would be substantially younger if that were the case. Most players in the league aren’t even hitting their stride at that age. Jack Eichel is still on the up-and-up. In 3-5 years he’ll plateau for for 2-4 years and those will be his prime scoring years. 

What is prime for you? is it age only? or is it a random study?

Prime is when youve developed into a complete elite player, has nothing to do with age. We're all different and you should know that by now. 
Connor Mcdavid has produced 3x 100point+ seasons in a rubbish team, but hey he is not in his prime right? what is this fkn bullshait.

You have no clue what ur talking about. 

Let's take Sid for example, buy your logic he would have been in his prime 5 years ago, his prime scoring years as your saying. Doesnt look to me like he had his prime  back then does it, does it to you? 

 

[DarthEbriate]

15 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I have been in St Louis a long time.  Berglund was done, Sobotka was done, Tage was a prospect they saw enough off to determine they could lose with Thomas and Kyrou coming up. 

Berglund was a guy the fans here loved to complain about.  Streaks of very good hockey and long periods of nothing. 

Hockey is a funny game …

That's just it. You never know what you're going to get in a trade. The Blues thought they were close (turns out they were) and let Hutton go because Allen was the guy (even if he wasn't). They got Bozak for 2C. They just needed the 1C (I rate ROR higher than Schenn). So they went and got him.

But what boggles the mind is the return. Not just STL, but the entire league, knew Berglund had lost a step and was 3/4C at this point and Sobotka was 3/4W. But more importantly, they're older players who played the heavier/slower "western" conference style the past decade. They don't even play the style of fast, forechecking game Botterill wants.

So... if the Sabres are giving up the best player AND giving STL cap relief for said player AND are taking back players that don't fit the system they want to run anyway on long-term contracts... what damn fool-interested crusade are we on?

It had to be a top center prospect: Kyrou + a 1, or Thomas + a 1 and 2. But Thompson -- listing him as a C does not a C make him. It just didn't make sense at all with an end-goal in mind beyond removing ROR and balancing the salaries. That's not a vision.

[DarthEbriate]

20 hours ago, pi2000 said:

I'm not defending the trade but there were also a lot of ifs that had to happen for it turn out this badly for Buffalo.

Berglund quits hockey.    

Sobotka finds success in his role under RK, team having success, lands on season ending IR 16 games into the season.

Thompson taking the next step in Roch showing development, 1st game in Buffalo goes on season ending IR.

JBOT couldn't have known these things were going to happen, but they did, so it looks like an even worse trade at this point.

All true. We knew we lost the trade. But did it have to be this bad of a loss? (and ROR wins the Conn Smythe and STL ends their drought, as well).

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

What is prime for you? is it age only? or is it a random study?

Prime is when youve developed into a complete elite player, has nothing to do with age. We're all different and you should know that by now. 
Connor Mcdavid has produced 3x 100point+ seasons in a rubbish team, but hey he is not in his prime right? what is this fkn bullshait.

You have no clue what ur talking about. 

Let's take Sid for example, buy your logic he would have been in his prime 5 years ago, his prime scoring years as your saying. Doesnt look to me like he had his prime  back then does it, does it to you? 

This is unnecessarily aggressive and belittling.  It’s ok to disagree and have a different point of view.  Try to express it while maintaining some respect.

[#freejame]

10 minutes ago, MODO Hockey said:

What is prime for you? is it age only? or is it a random study?

Prime is when youve developed into a complete elite player, has nothing to do with age. We're all different and you should know that by now. 
Connor Mcdavid has produced 3x 100point+ seasons in a rubbish team, but hey he is not in his prime right? what is this fkn bullshait.

You have no clue what ur talking about. 

Let's take Sid for example, buy your logic he would have been in his prime 5 years ago, his prime scoring years as your saying. Doesnt look to me like he had his prime  back then does it, does it to you? 

 

Dude, you’ve needed to take it down like five notches for months now. Prime is your peak. Ages help notate when that is, because your prime athletic ability is related to an age. That’s science and indisputable. This goes for all physical activity. It’s why the military uses age brackets for their physical fitness tests. Chill out and realize you don’t know nearly as much as you think you do. It’s long past incredibly annoying. 
 

and nice cherry picking of Crosby. You don’t think there’s other brain related reasonings for that? You would take 18-22 year old Crosby over the Crosby from his cup years? Have you watched any of those games? Com’mon. 

3 minutes ago, Curt said:

This is unnecessarily aggressive and belittling.  It’s ok to disagree and have a different point of view.  Try to express it while maintaining some respect.

Not to mention wrong 

He’s been doing it for a while now all over the board. He makes no arguments that hold water and just acts like a dick. 

Edited February 8, 2020 by #freejame

[MODO Hockey]

Just now, #freejame said:

Dude, you’ve needed to take it down like five notches for months now. Prime is your peak. Ages help notate when that is, because your prime athletic ability is related to an age. That’s science and indisputable. This goes for all physical activity. It’s why the military uses age brackets for their physical fitness tests. Chill out and realize you don’t know nearly as much as you think you do. It’s long past incredibly annoying. 
 

and nice cherry picking of Crosby. You don’t think there’s other brain related reasonings for that? You would take 18-22 year old Crosby over the Crosby from his cup years? Have you watched any of those games? Com’mon. 

I disagree with you and think most of what your saying, because prime is nothing that relates to  _all_ players with age as a preference. That is just not how it works. 
You were the one speaking of points, 

"in 3-5 years he’ll plateau for for 2-4 years and those will be his prime scoring years"

This is you cherry picking, im speaking facts. If you dont think Jack is in his prime now, then dont. I think he is.

[Brawndo]

18 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

All true. We knew we lost the trade. But did it have to be this bad of a loss? (and ROR wins the Conn Smythe and STL ends their drought, as well).

That trade was self inflicted damage that is on ownership and Botterill.  If the return included Elias Lindholm we would be have a different feeling about the team. 

The unlucky one was the San Jose First Rounders traded to us and Ottawa.

San Jose finished with the 29th Pick for us and will be giving a Top Ten Pick to Ottawa.

 

[sodbuster]

Just drove by the arena. There are about 40 people there so far, along with a couple local news reporters. 

[Neo]

6 minutes ago, sodbuster said:

Just drove by the arena. There are about 40 people there so far, along with a couple local news reporters. 

I’m going to need you to set up a live feed.    Get a mic, put the commotion over your shoulder.   E-nun-ci-ate.

[sodbuster]

7 minutes ago, Neo said:

I’m going to need you to set up a live feed.    Get a mic, put the commotion over your shoulder.   E-nun-ci-ate.

Eh, I'm just passing through. I want to be back in Brockport for the xfl kickoff. I wouldn't be surprised if the Trainwreck guys are streaming it though.

[PASabreFan]

25 minutes ago, sodbuster said:

Just drove by the arena. There are about 40 people there so far, along with a couple local news reporters. 

 

[Brawndo]

 

[bunomatic]

Who are these dingbats ?

 

what local Sabres fans ? I didn’t recognize the uni’z . Carry on then.

[Indabuff]

Looks like more fans there than have been attending the games as of late.

[MODO Hockey]

9 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

 

This is actually great. Hardcore fans right there speaking their mind. 

[Pimlach]

Hockey is a funny game.    I don’t know why the Sabres that beat Vegas, Dallas, and the Rangers did not show up against Ottawa, Montreal, Colorado or Detroit.   

After yesterday’s game I started thinking that  just a few more really good forwards and maybe we can take a real step forward as a team.   Then add in a stud goalie and look out. Which means blowing up the FO might be the wrong move.   I am more inclined to put in someone over Boterill that will help him with trades, player evaluations, and strategy.   

All I want now is to finish this season with the same level of compete like the Ranger game had, and do it every game, especially at home.  Finish strong like a team, do not spiral down.  

 

As for these fans protesting, its their right and it can’t hurt for Pegula to see it.  Hopefully Pegula interprets correctly - the low attendance speaks volumes - many people in WNY do not care about this team anymore.   

[Broken Ankles]

2 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Hockey is a funny game.    I don’t know why the Sabres that beat Vegas, Dallas, and the Rangers did not show up against Ottawa, Montreal, Colorado or Detroit.   

After yesterday’s game I started thinking that  just a few more really good forwards and maybe we can take a real step forward as a team.   Then add in a stud goalie and look out. Which means blowing up the FO might be the wrong move.   I am more inclined to put in someone over Boterill that will help him with trades, player evaluations, and strategy.   

All I want now is to finish this season with the same level of compete like the Ranger game had, and do it every game, especially at home.  Finish strong like a team, do not spiral down.  

 

As for these fans protesting, its their right and it can’t hurt for Pegula to see it.  Hopefully Pegula interprets correctly - the low attendance speaks volumes - many people in WNY do not care about this team anymore.   

Could not agree more.   I am extremely concerned about the current managements bond or ties to draft picks or players brought in via trade.   Specifically Carter Hutton.  A new GM would look at this situation, the flexibility of a buyout and this guy would be gone in the off-season.  Especially with talent like Holtby or other UFA goalies this summer.  I would doubt the current regime makes any changes at the position and stays with the status quo until his contract expires next year.  The experiment has failed.   Same to a lesser degree with Montour and Casey.  A new GM with no ties to these players can be much more objective in evaluating these assets as collateral in a trade.

[nfreeman]

On 2/8/2020 at 10:46 AM, MODO Hockey said:

What is prime for you? is it age only? or is it a random study?

Prime is when youve developed into a complete elite player, has nothing to do with age. We're all different and you should know that by now. 
Connor Mcdavid has produced 3x 100point+ seasons in a rubbish team, but hey he is not in his prime right? what is this fkn bullshait.

You have no clue what ur talking about. 

Let's take Sid for example, buy your logic he would have been in his prime 5 years ago, his prime scoring years as your saying. Doesnt look to me like he had his prime  back then does it, does it to you?

C'mon.  You know better than this.

 

Separately:  the Sabres have 27 wins and 62 pts with 22 games left.  They had 76 pts last year, in JB's 2nd year, and 62 in JB's 1st year (after getting 78 pts in GMTM's last season). 

Let's assume they don't go on an insane 17-5 streak and get into the playoffs, but rather muddle along around .500 for the rest of the year.  If they go DeLuca .500 and get a couple of OTLs (i.e. 11-9-2), they'll end up with 86 pts.  I think JB is safe in that situation.

If they go NHL .500 -- say, 9-9-4 -- they'll end up with 84 pts.  JB is probably safe in that situation too.

But what if bad goaltending and a UFA selloff causes them to lose badly and mail it in for the last 6 weeks of the season and they go, say, 7-13-2, for a total of 78 pts, with empty seats and tons of booing in the arena?  That's the number that got GMTM fired in his 3rd season, and it would unquestionably represent a disappointing season.

In that situation, I think it's at least 50/50 that JB is gone.