GASabresIUFAN Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 6 minutes ago, dudacek said: Low, I'd say. He won't want to pay deadline prices unless we are in striking distance of a playoff spot, and some targets won't be available if their teams out of the race. I imagine Jbot as both buyer and seller this deadline. I think if he can get a decent center with term like a Henrique or Bonino at the deadline he’ll do it. I also think he moves on from guys like Sheary or ERod if gets an offer. I also think he’ll move a D or two and move on from a disgruntled player or two. I mentioned before a cap neutral series of trades to upgrade the roster. KO for Turris. Bad contract winger for bad contract center. Bogo for Simmonds McCabe and Larsson for Bonino. Sheary for Galchenyuk. Erod for a bag of pucks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 22 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: What are the odds that Jbot gets a competent center by the deadline? 50/50? Less? 5 minutes ago, dudacek said: Low, I'd say. He won't want to pay deadline prices unless we are in striking distance of a playoff spot, and some targets won't be available if their teams out of the race. Even if they are still in the playoff race, the odds are low unless it happens to be an RFA being shopped. He demonstrated last year that he was, in a season not expected to include a playoff run, fine with losing extra games to save the cost differential (prospects/picks) of having Johansson when he was traded from Joisey to Boston last year to simply paying cash for him in the off-season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jad1 Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 Eric Staal could also be a short-term solution to bridge the gap until Cozens is ready. If Minnesota sinks any more in the standings, they might take a Skinner-lite type of deal (mid-level prospect and 3rd round pick-ish). He's older, but still producing, and could fill the 2c role for another season or so while giving veteren leadership to the locker room. He's cheap and would add production this season (38 points, 17 goals this season), and would allow Cozens to transition to the NHL on the 3rd line or on the wing. The playoffs are a longshot this season, but you get the feeling that the team needs a functional 2c in the lineup to get an idea about lineup decisions moving foward (for example, does Skinner need to be on a line with Eichel or can he thrive with a moderately talented center on the 2nd line). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted January 24, 2020 Author Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 Staal would be an excellent stop-gap 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3putt Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 Tampa’s team friendly deals have more to do with the ntc and nmc contracts they give out. Players are likely factor in stability and ability to control their living situation in their calculus of fair compensation. They take less if they know they will not be traded to say Buffalo from Tampa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom webster Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 3 hours ago, dudacek said: Low, I'd say. He won't want to pay deadline prices unless we are in striking distance of a playoff spot, and some targets won't be available if their teams aren't out of the race. The only was it happens if either he moves the number one pick without protection (remote chance) or he stumbles upon another Briere Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 24, 2020 Report Share Posted January 24, 2020 4 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said: What are the odds that Jbot gets a competent center by the deadline? 50/50? Less? 1% chance Botterill brings in a quality 2c before the deadline. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 11 hours ago, nfreeman said: That’s twice you’ve asked the same question that could’ve been answered with 60 seconds of google. Thank you for your kind direction. For the record, I did google and the article I read went to lengths to say how Stamkos got more by getting less as opposed to signing elsewhere and there was no mention of taxes for road games but once again, thank you for the idea and the kind thoughts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 5 hours ago, tom webster said: The only was it happens if either he moves the number one pick without protection (remote chance) or he stumbles upon another Briere Most likely case I suspect. Which leads many, including myself, to ponder this question: if he's unwilling to deal high end assets, including the unprotected 1st, to get Eichel the help roster wise to elevate this team to a contender while Jack is in his early prime years, as that contract winds down why would Eichel stay? And to further dive in to this subject, what's to prevent Jack from feeling so disgruntled that he just asks for a trade? While some will laugh off such questions, the fact is under the Pegula ownership there has been literally near 0 signs this team will climb out of the bottom feeders category. Failure and perpetual mediocrity are now a staple of the Sabres fan base, and the NHL league fans in general as well as the agents and players are not blind to this as well. So the question, at least in my humble opinion, is a valid one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 19 hours ago, nfreeman said: They need to pay state taxes to the states in which the games (including road games) are located. So they pay much less in state taxes than players on NYS or CA teams, but it’s quite a bit more than zero. Agreed it's not zero but it's not much at all. This was debated in September. "Most states measure duty days to determine when these visiting athletes should be taxed. This includes practice days, along with game days, that are spent in that state (and city depending on whether that city levies a jock tax as well). To determine the duty days spent in each visiting state, the work days spent in the visiting state are divided by the number of workdays in a season, from preseason through the postseason" The NHL has determined their season to be 270 days, so the players is only charged for the practice days and game days played in cities/states where a state tax exists. For Tampa Bay about 10 of their road games are in tax free states so only 30 games or about 40-50 "days" are spend inside these states. So using Jacks $10M AAV, his N.Y.S. tax would be around $880K. But if in Tampa bay, using a 270 day season those road games would add about 17% of his salary to those various states tax rates (average rate of $6.5%) for a tax of about $115K. I'd say the $760K in state tax savings is enough to affect ones decision. That and the weather. Being able to golf, hike, bike etc in the winter definitely factors in. I grew up in the 716 and live in a place where I can do all that and a whole lot more. It definitely doesn't suck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Scottysabres said: Most likely case I suspect. Which leads many, including myself, to ponder this question: if he's unwilling to deal high end assets, including the unprotected 1st, to get Eichel the help roster wise to elevate this team to a contender while Jack is in his early prime years, as that contract winds down why would Eichel stay? And to further dive in to this subject, what's to prevent Jack from feeling so disgruntled that he just asks for a trade? While some will laugh off such questions, the fact is under the Pegula ownership there has been literally near 0 signs this team will climb out of the bottom feeders category. Failure and perpetual mediocrity are now a staple of the Sabres fan base, and the NHL league fans in general as well as the agents and players are not blind to this as well. So the question, at least in my humble opinion, is a valid one. OK, for sake of discussion, let's say your premise is correct and Eichel decides he wants out this summer. He has SIX more years left on his contract. HOW does he force the Sabres to trade him? He can't sign a deal to play in any other pro league (KHL could be an exception. They didn't honor NHL contracts a few years ago, believe they worked that out, bit if not he could go there.) nor could he force a trade IMHO. If you believe he could force a trade, please explain the mechanics of how he does that. And if there is some other legit way out for him, please present it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottysabres Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 7 hours ago, Taro T said: OK, for sake of discussion, let's say your premise is correct and Eichel decides he wants out this summer. He has SIX more years left on his contract. HOW does he force the Sabres to trade him? He can't sign a deal to play in any other pro league (KHL could be an exception. They didn't honor NHL contracts a few years ago, believe they worked that out, bit if not he could go there.) nor could he force a trade IMHO. If you believe he could force a trade, please explain the mechanics of how he does that. And if there is some other legit way out for him, please present it. A player asking to be traded isn't a unicorn. It happens from time to time. And he needs to "force" nothing. The Pegulas public mantra has been "We want players that want to be here". If Jack adamantly doesn't want to be here, which is a very real possibility given the acceptance of the Sabres organization to remain a bottom feeder, i don't believe for one second he'd have to go in to mortal combat in an arena with Botterill or the Pegulas to get a trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, Taro T said: OK, for sake of discussion, let's say your premise is correct and Eichel decides he wants out this summer. He has SIX more years left on his contract. HOW does he force the Sabres to trade him? He can't sign a deal to play in any other pro league (KHL could be an exception. They didn't honor NHL contracts a few years ago, believe they worked that out, bit if not he could go there.) nor could he force a trade IMHO. If you believe he could force a trade, please explain the mechanics of how he does that. And if there is some other legit way out for him, please present it. 1 hour ago, Scottysabres said: A player asking to be traded isn't a unicorn. It happens from time to time. And he needs to "force" nothing. The Pegulas public mantra has been "We want players that want to be here". If Jack adamantly doesn't want to be here, which is a very real possibility given the acceptance of the Sabres organization to remain a bottom feeder, i don't believe for one second he'd have to go in to mortal combat in an arena with Botterill or the Pegulas to get a trade. Yup. We've already heard RK state that they will dress and play players that want to be here. If Jack ever decides he's done with the losing and states he wants out they'll move him to keep the room, and the coach. And they'll try to find another team that will give up a good return. Think ROR for reference, both Colorado and Buffalo (or Hasek). And like ROR, the chances we get good value in return will not be good most likely. Turgeon for LaFontaine does not happen often enough in the league to lend confidence to what may happen when Jack is ready for a fresh start. Edited January 25, 2020 by Weave 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huckleberry Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 On 1/24/2020 at 4:48 AM, WildCard said: Cirelli and RNH are the dreams but they're not happening To soft and having a bad season tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 One of the only possibilities would trading with Toronto for Kerfoot. Would love Staal, but I imagine the Sabres are near the Top of his M-NTC. In terms of trading Okposo for Turris, adding a declining player with an extra year left of his deal at 6 Million during the time the Sabres should be a bonafide Stanley Cup Contender makes little sense. Okposo is extremely overpaid for his present role on the team. That being said, John Vogl has an article about how the Okposo’s are the only members of the team to live in WNY all year round. If/when his contract gets to the point where it does not make sense to have him on the team, they probably will be able to approach him with options to join the organization in a different role and place him on LTIR for cap savings if he agrees. If terms of Jack wanting out, this organization deliberately destroyed two seasons by fielding two of the worse hockey teams ever seen in the history of the NHL to be able to draft either McDavid or Eichel. We are seeing the benefits of having a franchise center and Jack has moved from 29th to 6th on the TSN Top 50 Player Mid Season Rankings. He is behind McDavid, MacKinnon, Pasternak, Draistal and Panarin and ahead of Matthews. There is minimal chance the Sabres find a return anywhere close to the level of talent of Jack. Trading him would further damage the fragile relationship this team has with its fan base. Ralph is only going to play players that want to be here, yet we still see Zach Bogosian and ERod in the lineup for time to time, I imagine that changes after the trade deadline though. And this Organization, particularly this Management Group better have learned it’s lesson when it comes to trading disgruntled players with high end talent and how quickly the player can regain his love for the game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
French Collection Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 11 minutes ago, Brawndo said: We are seeing the benefits of having a franchise center and Jack has moved from 29th to 6th on the TSN Top 50 Player Mid Season Rankings. He is behind McDavid, MacKinnon, Pasternak, Draistal and Panarin and ahead of Matthews. Leafs fans must be storming TSN headquarters, Matthews is not top 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 7 minutes ago, French Collection said: Leafs fans must be storming TSN headquarters, Matthews is not top 2. I do take some solace in the fact that as crappy as the Sabres have played, they are only six points behind the Leafs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 hours ago, Scottysabres said: A player asking to be traded isn't a unicorn. It happens from time to time. And he needs to "force" nothing. The Pegulas public mantra has been "We want players that want to be here". If Jack adamantly doesn't want to be here, which is a very real possibility given the acceptance of the Sabres organization to remain a bottom feeder, i don't believe for one second he'd have to go in to mortal combat in an arena with Botterill or the Pegulas to get a trade. Over what time frame are you basing the bolded? He has given no indication that he wants out now. And, though it seems the team will never be good again, there is reason to believe the team WILL actually be good as soon as next season. And should they be good, this hand wringing over Eichel wanting out goes away. 2 hours ago, Weave said: Yup. We've already heard RK state that they will dress and play players that want to be here. If Jack ever decides he's done with the losing and states he wants out they'll move him to keep the room, and the coach. And they'll try to find another team that will give up a good return. Think ROR for reference, both Colorado and Buffalo (or Hasek). And like ROR, the chances we get good value in return will not be good most likely. Turgeon for LaFontaine does not happen often enough in the league to lend confidence to what may happen when Jack is ready for a fresh start. And again, there has been absolutely no indication that Eichel wants out. He has 6 years left on his deal. This team is already showing signs of having waaaaay more character and heart than any of the past 4 seasons. But, should the doom and gloomers be right and the team does still stink in 3 years; why in the world would the Pegulas choose to keep Botterill and his coach over the disgruntled elite player? That makes no sense at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Taro T said: Over what time frame are you basing the bolded? He has given no indication that he wants out now. And, though it seems the team will never be good again, there is reason to believe the team WILL actually be good as soon as next season. And should they be good, this hand wringing over Eichel wanting out goes away. And again, there has been absolutely no indication that Eichel wants out. He has 6 years left on his deal. This team is already showing signs of having waaaaay more character and heart than any of the past 4 seasons. But, should the doom and gloomers be right and the team does still stink in 3 years; why in the world would the Pegulas choose to keep Botterill and his coach over the disgruntled elite player? That makes no sense at all. I never said he has indicated that he wants out. I said “IF” that ever happens.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, Weave said: I never said he has indicated that he wants out. I said “IF” that ever happens.... Well, what do they do IF he steps in front of the Metro on his way to get a Super Mighty? And, again IF he ever gets disgruntled and says he wants out, why the #### would the Pegulas keep Botterill and punt Eichel? How would keeping Krueger and getting rid of, by far, their best forward allow him to keep the room? There's no room to keep at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Just now, Taro T said: Well, what do they do IF he steps in front of the Metro on his way to get a Super Mighty? And, again IF he ever gets disgruntled and says he wants out, why the #### would the Pegulas keep Botterill and punt Eichel? How would keeping Krueger and getting rid of, by far, their best forward allow him to keep the room? There's no room to keep at that point. Maybe mu point was poorly worded. IF their star player ever says I want out, regardless of whether its the same coach and GM or a different duo, the effect on the room of a disgruntled star will be sufficient enough motivation to accommodate the star to save whatever locker room there is. No team is going anywhere with a pissed off star so they’ll have to move him. This of course assumes that the situation becomes irreconcilable at that point. Again, just a what if, not a judgement of where we are headed. I was responding only to the idea that there is no way Jack could force his way out. He def could. We’ve seen a franchise player do it before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Weave said: Maybe mu point was poorly worded. IF their star player ever says I want out, regardless of whether its the same coach and GM or a different duo, the effect on the room of a disgruntled star will be sufficient enough motivation to accommodate the star to save whatever locker room there is. No team is going anywhere with a pissed off star so they’ll have to move him. This of course assumes that the situation becomes irreconcilable at that point. Again, just a what if, not a judgement of where we are headed. I was responding only to the idea that there is no way Jack could force his way out. He def could. We’ve seen a franchise player do it before. Yes, we saw Hasek force his way out of town after the owner had exposed himself as full of s### regarding bringing in the tools to get the job done. Dom had the credible threat of retirement &/or playing in the Czech Republic to use as leverage. Eichel has 6 more years to go on his contract and is in his early 20's. He doesn't have that leverage. Peca and LaFontaine forced trades as well. Neither had a contract and they refused to sign with the team that held their rights because neither would offer what the player was worth. They obtained leverage by having tye resolve to stay off the ice. Again, Eichel has 6 years left on his contract. He doesn't have the leverage the others had. And Eichel hasn't even hinted that wants out. This is a silly exercise. But, should he get disgruntled (as long as we're in this silly exercise ? ) it is far more likely the FO &/or coach goes than the fruit of the poisonous tank goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Noone said you needed the exercise..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted January 25, 2020 Report Share Posted January 25, 2020 Where's the :rolleyes: emoji when you need it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted January 27, 2020 Report Share Posted January 27, 2020 Ah the perpetual Buffalo fear of "what if they don't want to be here" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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