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dudacek

2nd line centre anyone?

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Situations change over time. Have changing situations created the possibility of any top six forwards (preferably centres) becoming available that weren't before, either now or in June?

How about these players?

  • Getzlaf: Ducks are bad, time to strip down and rebuild. He's old and pricey.
  • Patrick/Couturier: Both will be needing new contracts soon. Couturier's will be be big. Frost is coming. The Flyers have $30 million tied up in Giroux, Van Reimsdyk, Hayes and Voracek and they seem to be treading water.
  • Johanssen: That team's not working. Poile is fed up and doesn't hesitate to make big deals. Duchene is there and moving Bonino or Turris isn't going to make an impact
  • Nugent-Hopkins: Has the steady slide convinced Holland to push the reset button, either to save the season, or to accumulate assets for his rebuild. RNH has one year to UFA status.
  • Couture: The Sharks aren't good. Logan would fetch a good haul.
  • Cirelli: the Lightning cap crunch could be even worse this summer. (of course it won't matter when Cirelli signs yet another Tampa friendly contract, but we are speculating here)

Any more ideas worth discussing?

(Hey, at least it's not LGR and dudacek arguing with Pi and Forever about Reinhart again.)

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Couturier is the only one on that list I want. I think he instantly makes us a playoff team. 

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But what are you giving up to get them? That's the real question.

Flyers aren't going to trade Couturier. Cirelli I wanted JBot to go after last year already. Now, sure, for the right price, but yes, he will probably sign another of those state tax free contracts in Tampa. 

A good 2C, it's not gonna happen unless Risto or Reinhart are dealt for them. 

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1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

state tax free contracts

Not how it works.

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1 hour ago, WildCard said:

Cirelli and RNH are the dreams but they're not happening

RNH makes Sam Reinhart look like Brendan Shanahan.  

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5 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Not how it works.

It isn't? How does it work then? My understanding was simply that they take less because there is no state income tax in Florida so they net more take home. How is that wrong?

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8 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It isn't? How does it work then? My understanding was simply that they take less because there is no state income tax in Florida so they net more take home. How is that wrong?

They need to pay state taxes to the states in which the games (including road games) are located.  So they pay much less in state taxes than players on NYS or CA teams, but it’s quite a bit more than zero.  

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

They need to pay state taxes to the states in which the games (including road games) are located.  So they pay much less in state taxes than players on NYS or CA teams, but it’s quite a bit more than zero.  

You sure? I thought it was based on their place of residence during the season and not on where the games were?

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1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

You sure? I thought it was based on their place of residence during the season and not on where the games were?

Yes he's right. Its called a Jock Tax. And besides from having to pay a tax for each State in which they play, some cities also add an additional City Tax, generally another 4% or so on top of that. So at the end of the year, players will file 10-20 State Tax forms for the various States in which they've played, on top of the taxes they pay for their home residing State.

Theres lots of articles out there about it. Just a few months ago our own Scott Wilson filed a complaint vs the city of Pittsburgh for their tax scheme towards non resident athletes. Article here if you're curious: https://www.si.com/nhl/2019/11/27/pittsburgh-jock-tax-scott-wilson-kyle-palmieri  Every State & City has different requirements of course & i don't know what the current laws/rules state. But yes afaik players are still required to pay for away games in States where that's a thing.

Edited by MillerVaive
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3 hours ago, MillerVaive said:

Yes he's right. Its called a Jock Tax. And besides from having to pay a tax for each State in which they play, some cities also add an additional City Tax, generally another 4% or so on top of that. So at the end of the year, players will file 10-20 State Tax forms for the various States in which they've played, on top of the taxes they pay for their home residing State.

Theres lots of articles out there about it. Just a few months ago our own Scott Wilson filed a complaint vs the city of Pittsburgh for their tax scheme towards non resident athletes. Article here if you're curious: https://www.si.com/nhl/2019/11/27/pittsburgh-jock-tax-scott-wilson-kyle-palmieri  Every State & City has different requirements of course & i don't know what the current laws/rules state. But yes afaik players are still required to pay for away games in States where that's a thing.

This is all true but playing half his games in a state that has no state taxes will still lower his tax bill relative to the rest of the league.

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I wonder if FL has a jock tax that results in him paying there as well?

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5 minutes ago, Weave said:

I wonder if FL has a jock tax that results in him paying there as well?

Nah, the only new taxes Florida likes are poll taxes. 

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57 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Nah, the only new taxes Florida likes are poll taxes. 

Truth.

 

Cirelli is still who I would target. Tampa is a hard trade partner thought with all their NMC. Tampa might want some RHD help after this season. The issue is they won't trade him until this summer when they need to pay him and they could still wiggle out of their cap issues and keep him. 

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6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You sure? I thought it was based on their place of residence during the season and not on where the games were?

That’s twice you’ve asked the same question that could’ve been answered with 60 seconds of google.  

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

That’s twice you’ve asked the same question that could’ve been answered with 60 seconds of google.  

I mean the point of this place is discussion

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7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You sure? I thought it was based on their place of residence during the season and not on where the games were?

We're sure.  It's been hashed out on this board many times.

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3 hours ago, tom webster said:

This is all true but playing half his games in a state that has no state taxes will still lower his tax bill relative to the rest of the league.

Yes of course... pretty sure that was already stated. But his question was about paying taxes for away games in different states (which is something thats not as commonly known) & thats what i answered.

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Even when normal people travel for work you are supposed to file taxes in the states you traveled to, if you're there working for more than 2-4 weeks. It depends state by state and by jurisdiction.  Here is a 2018 article about it https://www.cpapracticeadvisor.com/tax-compliance/article/12405584/the-tax-travails-of-employees-crossing-state-lines

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2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Truth.

 

Cirelli is still who I would target. Tampa is a hard trade partner thought with all their NMC. Tampa might want some RHD help after this season. The issue is they won't trade him until this summer when they need to pay him and they could still wiggle out of their cap issues and keep him. 

Cirelli would be a good target. I know he's a name we've mentioned for a couple years now. He's one of 6 RFA'S Tampa will have to deal with heading into next year, in addition to 4 UFA's & they only have $8 Million in cap space to do it... so someone has to go. He is arguably their best 2 way forward & I have no doubt that we would be interested. Its just that other teams will be interested as well.

Toffoli would be another potential target & I know his name has been mentioned from time to time. Its been said the asking price for Toffoli is a 2nd round pick & a prospect, so that seems like a pretty fair ask. But I believe he's an UFA going into next season so we'd have to be confident in signing an extension with him. Jason Zucker is another name you hear quite often. He won't wow you or anything but all he does is play a consistent game & put up 20 goals a year. Has a modest cap number of $5.5 mil thru 2023. Seems his name is mentioned year after year. I gotta figure at some point those rumors pan true & he's moved... that whole where theres smoke theres fire kinda thing.

There are options out there, but with so many teams coveting quality forwards there'll be bidding wars so to speak, with teams trying to maximize their returns on guys like these.

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1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What are the odds that Jbot gets a competent center by the deadline? 50/50? Less?

 

less... but hey you never know

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2 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What are the odds that Jbot gets a competent center by the deadline? 50/50? Less?

I put the odds at 5%. The market just isn't there. If it is, it's gonna be some really young and up and comer most people aren't familiar with (myself included)

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1 minute ago, WildCard said:

I put the odds at 5%. The market just isn't there. If it is, it's gonna be some really young and up and comer most people aren't familiar with (myself included)

I think this is possible as well.  Maybe someone is desperate for D help but has an NHL ready player not being utilized properly because of the center depth ahead of them.

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50 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

What are the odds that Jbot gets a competent center by the deadline? 50/50? Less?

 

Low, I'd say. He won't want to pay deadline prices unless we are in striking distance of a playoff spot, and some targets won't be available if their teams aren't out of the race.

Edited by dudacek

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