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Somethings About Dylan Cozens Thread


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1 minute ago, Taro T said:

He'll get a long look in TC and almost definitely get the 9 game tryout.

Whether he stays up or heads back to the CHL really will come down to his performance in those games.  Expecting he'll earn the full year, but if not, no harm.

Well, that's how we end up with another Grigorenko / Mittlestadt situation, then.  I hate this CHL rule so much.

Edited by Eleven
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39 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Well, that's how we end up with another Grigorenko / Mittlestadt situation, then.  I hate this CHL rule so much.

If he's one of the top 12, he'll be here.  If he isn't, he won't.

Grigorenko was caused in part by there only being a 5 game window for him.

Mittelstadt went NCAA and could've been sent to Ra-cha-cha at anytime last season.

Reinhart is a more accurate expected comparable.  He didn't seem worse for the wear by not dominating a 2nd post draft junior season.  And though he wasn't close to ready to be a 1st liner opening night, he wasn't getting caved in on the 3rd scoring line. 

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2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

If he's one of the top 12, he'll be here.  If he isn't, he won't.

Grigorenko was caused in part by there only being a 5 game window for him.

Mittelstadt went NCAA and could've been sent to Ra-cha-cha at anytime last season.

Reinhart is a more accurate expected comparable.  He didn't seem worse for the wear by not dominating a 2nd post draft junior season.  And though he wasn't close to ready to be a 1st liner opening night, he wasn't getting caved in on the 3rd scoring line. 

Reinhart wasn't ready in his D1 season, he was during his D2. Doubt many would debate either of those statements.

Reinhart D1: won gold at the WJCs playing on the first line for Canada, scored 19/46/65 in 47 games in junior

Cozens D1: won gold at the WJCs playing on the first line for Canada, scored 32/41/73 in 43 games (so far) in junior

Reinhart D2: 23/19/42 as an NHL rookie

Cozens D2: being an NHLer doesn't look out of the question to me

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19 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Is Cozens a better prospect than Reinhart was? What about than Mitts?

At this time during his D1 year, Mitts was the highest-ranked prospect outside the NHL, or at worst on par with Elias Pettersen.

My point is, who the ***** knows?

Edited by dudacek
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12 minutes ago, WildCard said:

Is Cozens a better prospect than Reinhart was? What about than Mitts?

I don’t think Cozens is as highly regarded as Reinhart was but I may be wrong.  Iirc, Reinhart was one of three at the top of a draft which analysts considered weak.  Cozens was in the 4-10 type range of a draft experts considered stronger.  Mits had a ton of praise coming out his draft year also and would guess he was around equally regarded?  It’s still a bit of a crap shoot though.  I’m not counting on it but Mits could still turn into the best of all three one day.  Ok that may be too much wishful thinking lol.

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I thought Cozens was a 2nd line wing for WJC?

I don’t think there is any reliable way of projecting if he’ll be NHL ready next season until he’s actually playing against NHLers in camp.

And I really don’t feel comfortable with yet another center prospect on the NHL roster in D2 year.  The only one thats worked for is Jack.

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I didnt know a thing about Cozens until we drafted him. Didn't care all that much for him through the summer and first part of the prospect tournament. By the end of the preseason I was convinced that he is at least Reinhart-caliber. With stronger skating.

This is a foolish way to see things and contributes nothing to the discussion of where Cozens should be next year. But I typed it so I'm posting it 

His skating and two-way game, against NHLers in preseason hockey, was good enough to make me think he'd be in a good place if he made the roster next year. I don't think traditionally overwhelming parts of NHL hockey would be overwhelming to him. 

My biggest worry has been his hands and stickhandling, I am sure he is working on skill development in that area all year and hope it works. They are the only thing slow about his game

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1 hour ago, Weave said:

I thought Cozens was a 2nd line wing for WJC?

This is incorrect. He may have played on the second line at times, but he finished the tournament and played the bulk of it as team Canada’s 1st line RW with captain Barrett Hayton and projected 1st overall pick this year Alexis Lafreniere.

He was also on the top PP was used in defensive situations, and finished third on the team in scoring with nine points. Also led in +/- if anyone cares.

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2 hours ago, Weave said:

I thought Cozens was a 2nd line wing for WJC?

I don’t think there is any reliable way of projecting if he’ll be NHL ready next season until he’s actually playing against NHLers in camp.

And I really don’t feel comfortable with yet another center prospect on the NHL roster in D2 year.  The only one thats worked for is Jack.

Actually Jack and Dahlin were D1. Sam was D2. Risto was also a Sabre in the second half of D1. Skinner was also a D1 player.

VO is the opposite extreme. He is D6.

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3 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I didnt know a thing about Cozens until we drafted him. Didn't care all that much for him through the summer and first part of the prospect tournament. By the end of the preseason I was convinced that he is at least Reinhart-caliber. With stronger skating.

This is a foolish way to see things and contributes nothing to the discussion of where Cozens should be next year. But I typed it so I'm posting it 

His skating and two-way game, against NHLers in preseason hockey, was good enough to make me think he'd be in a good place if he made the roster next year. I don't think traditionally overwhelming parts of NHL hockey would be overwhelming to him. 

My biggest worry has been his hands and stickhandling, I am sure he is working on skill development in that area all year and hope it works. They are the only thing slow about his game

What I like most about his play is something we have lacking on this team.    He goes into the areas most on the sabres won't and drives play to the net.

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24 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

Actually Jack and Dahlin were D1. Sam was D2. Risto was also a Sabre in the second half of D1. Skinner was also a D1 player.

VO is the opposite extreme. He is D6.

I know all that and none of it changes the thought I was expressing.  I was speaking of year D2 regardless of when they showed up here.

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18 minutes ago, Weave said:

I know all that and none of it changes the thought I was expressing.  I was speaking of year D2 regardless of when they showed up here.

But saying Cozens is unlikely to succeed here as a D2 because no other centers have isn’t a fair statement.  
How many have we tried?  Reinhart was a D2 and succeeded.  Girgensons was a D2 and has carved out a 480 game career so far.  Just because Mitts didn’t yet workout as a D2 forced to play as a 2C is not a reason to simply reject others attempting the same thing. Hopefully Jbot allows Cozens an easier entry to the NHL as a 3C to help avoid the issues Mitts faced.  Honestly I think Cozens is much more physically ready for the role then Mitts was in 2018.

Others have done it and succeeded.  Dylan Larkin for example. He was a 15th overall selection and put up 45 pts as a rookie after one year at Michigan.  
 

 

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1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

But saying Cozens is unlikely to succeed here as a D2 because no other centers have isn’t a fair statement.  
How many have we tried?  Reinhart was a D2 and succeeded.  Girgensons was a D2 and has carved out a 480 game career so far.  Just because Mitts didn’t yet workout as a D2 forced to play as a 2C is not a reason to simply reject others attempting the same thing. Hopefully Jbot allows Cozens an easier entry to the NHL as a 3C to help avoid the issues Mitts faced.  Honestly I think Cozens is much more physically ready for the role then Mitts was in 2018.

Others have done it and succeeded.  Dylan Larkin for example. He was a 15th overall selection and put up 45 pts as a rookie after one year at Michigan.  
 

 

The track record for D2 centers in recent years has been poor.  Grigorenko, fail, Girgensons, fail at C, Sam, fail at C, Mitts, fail at C.  Sue me if I reflexively want to see this kid further developed before throwing that kind of responsibility at him. 

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On 2/15/2020 at 11:05 AM, dudacek said:

Did the Canucks mess up Quinn Hughes by having him start his D2 year in the NHL? Elias Pettersson?

So many absolutes here. You can’t count on Cozens to play next year, but if he’s ready, play him.

Yup. 

On 2/18/2020 at 9:33 AM, Eleven said:

Well, that's how we end up with another Grigorenko / Mittlestadt situation, then.  I hate this CHL rule so much.

Cozens absolutely may be ready for a full time gig next year. The biggest issue with Mittelstadt was that he was being counted on to be our second-scoring centre, commonly referred to as the 2C. We absolutely cannot expect that of Cozens heading into next season. Him being able to play a competent role someone lower in the lineup, or even spot duty on wing on a higher line, is a situation that could definitely arise. 

On 2/18/2020 at 10:48 AM, WildCard said:

Is Cozens a better prospect than Reinhart was? What about than Mitts?

In between.

Mittelstadt was hyped but clearly that hype has been shown to be of the over hype variety. Yes it's taking into account current information but as Mitts is still a prospect, I'd say, the prospect book on him is still liable to be added to. I'm not saying he can't be a good NHLer, or even potentially better than Cozens, but I wouldn't bet on it. It's totally opinion, but what I've seen and read, Cozens looks like the better prospect. Concerns about his ceiling are unfounded, his ceiling is higher than Casey's as well due to all-around aptitude. 

Reinhart *was* the consensus 2 overall, and settling in as a 65-70 point player is in line with that draft position generally, even if a guy drafted below him like Draisaitl has surpassed him. He was a higher regarded prospect than Cozens. I'm not ruling out Cozens being a more valuable player in the long run, I love him as a prospect. His two way game is so intriguing, and he has very good offensive acumen. But Reinhart has definitely reached a level of play that is nothing to sneeze at. 

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On 2/18/2020 at 5:04 PM, Weave said:

The track record for D2 centers in recent years has been poor.  Grigorenko, fail, Girgensons, fail at C, Sam, fail at C, Mitts, fail at C.  Sue me if I reflexively want to see this kid further developed before throwing that kind of responsibility at him. 

I'd have no problem breaking Cozens in on a scoring line in a winger role. Like a Seguin. They just can't keep him there (see, Reinhart). But I'm not too worried that would happen - his skills and two way ability and speed scream NHL C, not winger. 

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On 2/18/2020 at 12:41 PM, Huckleberry said:

What I like most about his play is something we have lacking on this team.    He goes into the areas most on the sabres won't and drives play to the net.

This.

Don't compare him to Reinhart. He's a different type of player with different character. I'm trying to tell you guys, have faith in it. This is a guy who just loves playing hockey. He actually seems to enjoy getting hit and dishes it back out. We have nobody on our roster like him. He just needs a bit more adult size/muscle as most kids his age do, but unless we ruin him somehow this guy will be sensational in a few years and can probably play right now. 

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1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Yup. 

Cozens absolutely may be ready for a full time gig next year. The biggest issue with Mittelstadt was that he was being counted on to be our second-scoring centre, commonly referred to as the 2C. We absolutely cannot expect that of Cozens heading into next season. Him being able to play a competent role someone lower in the lineup, or even spot duty on wing on a higher line, is a situation that could definitely arise. 

In between.

Mittelstadt was hyped but clearly that hype has been shown to be of the over hype variety. Yes it's taking into account current information but as Mitts is still a prospect, I'd say, the prospect book on him is still liable to be added to. I'm not saying he can't be a good NHLer, or even potentially better than Cozens, but I wouldn't bet on it. It's totally opinion, but what I've seen and read, Cozens looks like the better prospect. Concerns about his ceiling are unfounded, his ceiling is higher than Casey's as well due to all-around aptitude. 

Reinhart *was* the consensus 2 overall, and settling in as a 65-70 point player is in line with that draft position generally, even if a guy drafted below him like Draisaitl has surpassed him. He was a higher regarded prospect than Cozens. I'm not ruling out Cozens being a more valuable player in the long run, I love him as a prospect. His two way game is so intriguing, and he has very good offensive acumen. But Reinhart has definitely reached a level of play that is nothing to sneeze at. 

I remember Reinhart being hyped as one of four players that could have gone number one in a weaker draft, as opposed to being a consensus #2. It's interesting that both he and Ekblad landed more or less within expectations, although perhaps on the low side, while Bennett has been a huge disappointment and Draisaitl at least a full level higher than what the scouts thought he would be.

Nobody had Casey as number one in what was also a weaker draft — more in the 3-8 range with a fair amount of disagreement among scouts. There were those who had concerns given the fact he had obvious skill, but hadn't played much against the higher levels of competition. It's cold comfort to Sabres fans, but he hasn't actually slipped that much, probably still sitting in the lower part of top 10. That draft could still go in a lot of directions.

Cozens was in a stronger draft and was pegged by most to be as high as three and as low as 6. The top three picks played in the NHL this year which has to mean something, even though none of them have had slam-dunk 'clearly belong' type seasons. None of the rest have opened a gap on Cozens, in fact you good argue that he's the one that's shown the most progress.

What's interesting is that 9 or 10 months after they were picked, both Mittelstadt and Reinhart were ranked the top prospect outside the NHL by a panel of scouts in the annual Hockey News Future Watch edition. I don't expect Cozens to join them, but he will be in the conversation.

I struggle to find a good comparable for him in both style and stature if he reaches his peak. Trevor Linden with speed? Mark Messier without the leadership aura and Terminator persona? Some weird middle ground between those two maybe?

He's an interesting player. And, like Forever say above, the Sabres have no one like him.

Edited by dudacek
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1 hour ago, Thorny said:

Yup. 

Cozens absolutely may be ready for a full time gig next year. The biggest issue with Mittelstadt was that he was being counted on to be our second-scoring centre, commonly referred to as the 2C. We absolutely cannot expect that of Cozens heading into next season. Him being able to play a competent role someone lower in the lineup, or even spot duty on wing on a higher line, is a situation that could definitely arise. 

In between.

Mittelstadt was hyped but clearly that hype has been shown to be of the over hype variety. Yes it's taking into account current information but as Mitts is still a prospect, I'd say, the prospect book on him is still liable to be added to. I'm not saying he can't be a good NHLer, or even potentially better than Cozens, but I wouldn't bet on it. It's totally opinion, but what I've seen and read, Cozens looks like the better prospect. Concerns about his ceiling are unfounded, his ceiling is higher than Casey's as well due to all-around aptitude. 

Reinhart *was* the consensus 2 overall, and settling in as a 65-70 point player is in line with that draft position generally, even if a guy drafted below him like Draisaitl has surpassed him. He was a higher regarded prospect than Cozens. I'm not ruling out Cozens being a more valuable player in the long run, I love him as a prospect. His two way game is so intriguing, and he has very good offensive acumen. But Reinhart has definitely reached a level of play that is nothing to sneeze at. 

 

3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I remember Reinhart being hyped as one of four players that could have gone number one in a weaker draft, as opposed to being a consensus #2. It's interesting that both he and Ekblad landed more or less within expectations, although perhaps on the low side, while Bennett has been a huge disappointment and Draisaitl at least a full level higher than what the scouts thought he would be.

Nobody had Casey as number one in what was also a weaker draft — more in the 3-8 range with a fair amount of disagreement among scouts. There were those who had concerns given the fact he had obvious skill, but hadn't played much against the higher levels of competition. It's cold comfort to Sabres fans, but he hasn't actually slipped that much, probably still sitting in the lower part of top 10. That draft could still go in a lot of directions.

Cozens was in a stronger draft and was pegged by most to be as high as three and as low as 6. The top three picks played in the NHL this year which has to mean something, even though none of them have had slam-dunk 'clearly belong' type seasons. None of the rest have opened a gap on Cozens, in fact you good argue that he's the one that's shown the most progress.

What's interesting is that 9 or 10 months after they were picked, both Mittelstadt and Cozens were ranked the top prospect outside the NHL by a panel of scouts in the annual Hockey News Future Watch edition. I don't expect Cozens to join them, but he will be in the conversation.

I struggle to find a good comparable for him in both style and stature. Trevor Linden with speed? Mark Messier without the leadership aura and Terminator persona?

He's an interesting player. And, like Forever say above, the Sabres have no one like him.

Both posts even tempered, well thought out, factual and reasonable. No clouded bias or ax grinding. ??

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41 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I struggle to find a good comparable for him in both style and stature if he reaches his peak. Trevor Linden with speed? Mark Messier without the leadership aura and Terminator persona? Some weird middle ground between those two maybe?

I go with Jordan Staal with more speed or like Chris Kreider if he could play a good C.  I don’t like comparing most prospects to HOFers.  Making comparable like this at all is kind of silly, but it’s fun.

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2 hours ago, Curt said:

I go with Jordan Staal with more speed or like Chris Kreider if he could play a good C.  I don’t like comparing most prospects to HOFers.  Making comparable like this at all is kind of silly, but it’s fun.

He’s got more skill than Staal too and it’s not just the speed, but the pace, he’s always pushing.

Kreider was my go-to prior to the draft but (Against his peers) Dylan just does pretty much everything better.

If he’s “just” Kreider I will be mildly disappointed 

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35 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Mark Messier?

Whoa big fella.  That’s the kind of talk that makes the hockey gods decide to give us another 5 years in purgatory   

Eric Staal seems more apt than Jordan (even if also pretty optimistic), no?

Yeah, this is exactly what @curt was talking about.

I, in no way, think Cozens is going to be a Messier-level player, he completely lacks the Messier aura to start with, but even after that, I don’t think Dylan will be able to slow the game down the way Messier could.

I was casting around for a player that adds elite skating and first line talent to a power game, with pace and competitiveness, yet can still play centre and there aren’t many. Messier and Linden were two that came to mind stylistically, with the idea that Cozens has elements of both with a ceiling that might be halfway between the two.

Agree with all points of your Eric Staal sentence.

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