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GDT - Tuesday, January 14th - Vegas Golden Knights @ Buffalo Sabres, 7pm ET (WGR/MSG)

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48 minutes ago, Weave said:

Sams “fault” is he doesn’t have a flashy, dynamic game.  That description can be used to describe a power forward or a Mogilny.  Sam is neither.  His game is more controlled. Maybe even dull.

I think we’d think alot better about Sam if we had a good 2nd line and the first line wasn’t so exposed.

I also think that there is value in exploring if another style player wouldn’t be more beneficial to the team overall.  But, Sam is pretty damned good and we’d need to make sure we don’t take a step backwards in that change, which is a very distinct possibility.

I don’t recall another Sabre who is so under appreciated by some and over appreciated by others at the same time.

Totally agree with the latter. I said earlier he is a polarizing figure. I'm often asked why do you dislike him so much, so to the supporters I reverse the question. Why do you guys overlook his flaws and laud him so much? I just don't get it.

To the bold, I firmly believe that Jack would peak and dominate the league if he was teamed up with a true power forward. That to me is our missing ingredient as much as a good 2C. 

I just see a big future problem in overpaying Sam, which is very likely given his top line role on the team and JBot's likely desperation to keep his job. 

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Would you trade Reinhart straight up for Kapanen?

No. I like Kapanen as a player but he's not all that either. I'd rather have a player like Konecny, whose game I absolutely love (I know he's not available). Flyers signed him for an AAV of 5.5 and that is going to be a bargain. Sam is not as good as him imo so if we signed Sam for less I'm ok, but we won't, so I won't be. 

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There are facts and there are opinions who some are convinced they’re facts. I think the last few posts clearly showed that. 
Reinhart has some flaws. So does every player. Every. Player. The fact that some can see both flaws and assets is a good thing. A logical, even keeled thing. It’s as plain as day who can’t. I hope that changes for some fans. It would be nice.

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12 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Totally agree with the latter. I said earlier he is a polarizing figure. I'm often asked why do you dislike him so much, so to the supporters I reverse the question. Why do you guys overlook his flaws and laud him so much? I just don't get it.

To the bold, I firmly believe that Jack would peak and dominate the league if he was teamed up with a true power forward. That to me is our missing ingredient as much as a good 2C. 

I just see a big future problem in overpaying Sam, which is very likely given his top line role on the team and JBot's likely desperation to keep his job. 

No. I like Kapanen as a player but he's not all that either. I'd rather have a player like Konecny, whose game I absolutely love (I know he's not available). Flyers signed him for an AAV of 5.5 and that is going to be a bargain. Sam is not as good as him imo so if we signed Sam for less I'm ok, but we won't, so I won't be. 

I think you’re overstating Sams faults.  Or maybe over expecting.  He’s not a franchise level player, but there is only about 15-20 of those in the league at any point in time.  All the rest have flaws.  It comes down to matching the player to the team and system.

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24 minutes ago, Weave said:

I think you’re overstating Sams faults.  Or maybe over expecting.  He’s not a franchise level player, but there is only about 15-20 of those in the league at any point in time.  All the rest have flaws.  It comes down to matching the player to the team and system.

Agree with this. I also think some have to try harder to get over the fact that he was drafted 2nd overall. How many times do we see “well he was drafted 2nd overall, he should be a game changer, a franchise player!” He’s not gonna be. Get over it already. Bloody hell. I think that elevated unrealistic expectation years and years removed from his draft, is what blurs people’s vision of not only Reinhart, but many players. I’m not reading anything embellished or inflated from those who like him as a player. I am however seeing hyperbole, Bloated expectations, and vast exaggerations when it comes to some (not all) of the negative or flaws in his game. Be accurate for gods sake. 

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20 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

The amount of Reinhart hate has reached hysterical proportions. If I hadn't watched him play I'd be convinced he's a Cody Franson level skater, with Andrew Peter's puck handling skills, Alex Nylanders on ice work ethic, and Grogorenko level impact on the game. Basically he's being described as a garbage player riding Eichels coattails and bringing nothing much else. 

Hyperbolize much?

Look.  He's a very good player who belongs on a second line wing... and that's how he should be paid.

He's not the guy you pay $8m/yr to slot next to Eichel.   Do better, reach higher, don't settle. 

 

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38 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Agree with this. I also think some have to try harder to get over the fact that he was drafted 2nd overall. How many times do we see “well he was drafted 2nd overall, he should be a game changer, a franchise player!” He’s not gonna be. Get over it already. Bloody hell. I think that elevated unrealistic expectation years and years removed from his draft, is what blurs people’s vision of not only Reinhart, but many players. I’m not reading anything embellished or inflated from those who like him as a player. I am however seeing hyperbole, Bloated expectations, and vast exaggerations when it comes to some (not all) of the negative or flaws in his game. Be accurate for gods sake. 

The embellishments go both ways, although I think the embellished flaws tend to be bigger embellishments around here.

And don’t discount what we went through to get him coloring expectations.  Given what was done, there should be an expectation of higher return.  That’s not Sam’s fault though.  He cannot control that we threw away the better part of a decade to draft him.  Really, Malkin level is the justification for that, not Sam.

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5 hours ago, Weave said:

I think you’re overstating Sams faults.  Or maybe over expecting.  He’s not a franchise level player, but there is only about 15-20 of those in the league at any point in time.  All the rest have flaws.  It comes down to matching the player to the team and system.

I can't disagree with this. I guess I do overstate his faults as a counter for the undo praise he often seems to get. 

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12 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

No. I like Kapanen as a player but he's not all that either. I'd rather have a player like Konecny, whose game I absolutely love (I know he's not available). Flyers signed him for an AAV of 5.5 and that is going to be a bargain. Sam is not as good as him imo so if we signed Sam for less I'm ok, but we won't, so I won't be. 

The thing about this is that if Philly tried to sign Konecny to that same contract today, they would never be able to do it.  It would cost them more.

Just like if Sam had been signed long term two years ago, instead of signing this bridge deal, he would have commanded a fair amount less than he will on his next contract.  He maybe could have been signed for something around that $5.5M that you reference.

However, I feel like if Reinhart had been signed to a 6 yr $5.5M contract 2 years ago, you probably would have derided it as an overpay for a guy who is just a passenger, doesn’t play hard, is weak, etc.

Am I super wrong?

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8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I can't disagree with this. I guess I do overstate his faults as a counter for the undo praise he often seems to get. 

First ... that’s a weird unfortunate affliction you have there. Second, start pointing out now or in the future, what you think is “undo” praise. I mean, you aren’t making that up, right? So point it out. I’d love to see that. 

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8 hours ago, Curt said:

The thing about this is that if Philly tried to sign Konecny to that same contract today, they would never be able to do it.  It would cost them more.

Just like if Sam had been signed long term two years ago, instead of signing this bridge deal, he would have commanded a fair amount less than he will on his next contract.  He maybe could have been signed for something around that $5.5M that you reference.

However, I feel like if Reinhart had been signed to a 6 yr $5.5M contract 2 years ago, you probably would have derided it as an overpay for a guy who is just a passenger, doesn’t play hard, is weak, etc.

Am I super wrong?

So I guess what you're saying is the Flyer's GM is smart, and ours isn't. Am I right? 

2 years ago there is absolutely no way I'd have given half season Samson any length of term. If I was JBot I would have done things very differently. For Sam specifically I would have traded him first season I got here. Not the type of guy I would build my core around. 

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6 hours ago, Zamboni said:

First ... that’s a weird unfortunate affliction you have there. Second, start pointing out now or in the future, what you think is “undo” praise. I mean, you aren’t making that up, right? So point it out. I’d love to see that. 

It's constant, and it's referenced in every post so no point in rehashing it over and over again cause you'll just say I'm wrong and I'll say you're wrong and it'll never end. Almost every game I notice moments where he slacks or floats. Several times in last night's game Jack and Zemgus were working their butts off and Sam was just back waiting by the wall. So a defender says "great positional play" but the end result too often was they were outnumbered and Dallas gained possession despite good efforts from Jack and Zemgus. All too often 3 guys go back to the bench and only 2 of them are out of breath. It's his great conditioning right? I think not. 

Bottom line for me on Sam. If he worked as hard as Lazar (a much less talented player but with a great attitude) he'd be a perennial allstar. I'm tired of waiting. It'll never happen.

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17 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's constant, and it's referenced in every post so no point in rehashing it over and over again cause you'll just say I'm wrong and I'll say you're wrong and it'll never end. Almost every game I notice moments where he slacks or floats. Several times in last night's game Jack and Zemgus were working their butts off and Sam was just back waiting by the wall. So a defender says "great positional play" but the end result too often was they were outnumbered and Dallas gained possession despite good efforts from Jack and Zemgus. All too often 3 guys go back to the bench and only 2 of them are out of breath. It's his great conditioning right? I think not. 

Bottom line for me on Sam. If he worked as hard as Lazar (a much less talented player but with a great attitude) he'd be a perennial allstar. I'm tired of waiting. It'll never happen.

Footnote?

https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/f49d0f57-1e03-4357-b655-5766517df393

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3 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

So I guess what you're saying is the Flyer's GM is smart, and ours isn't. Am I right? 

2 years ago there is absolutely no way I'd have given half season Samson any length of term. If I was JBot I would have done things very differently. For Sam specifically I would have traded him first season I got here. Not the type of guy I would build my core around. 

That could be true.  It’s certainly possible that a Botterill misplayed the situation.  It’s also possible that Sam had no reasonable interest in signing a long term contract at that time.  Takes two to tango.

As for the rest, that’s your opinion and that’s ok.  👍🏻

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5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's constant, and it's referenced in every post so no point in rehashing it over and over again cause you'll just say I'm wrong and I'll say you're wrong and it'll never end. Almost every game I notice moments where he slacks or floats. Several times in last night's game Jack and Zemgus were working their butts off and Sam was just back waiting by the wall. So a defender says "great positional play" but the end result too often was they were outnumbered and Dallas gained possession despite good efforts from Jack and Zemgus. All too often 3 guys go back to the bench and only 2 of them are out of breath. It's his great conditioning right? I think not. 

Bottom line for me on Sam. If he worked as hard as Lazar (a much less talented player but with a great attitude) he'd be a perennial allstar. I'm tired of waiting. It'll never happen.

I have reservations about Reino’s next contract too, but his effort and attitude are not among them.

He’s a good player, not a great player, who is probably going to get a bit overpaid on his next deal.  I don’t think he’ll become an albatross before the contract ends, and I think he’ll be consistently productive and a good team guy. 

I also think that when the Sabres start making the playoffs regularly, after a bit of adjustment, he’ll be an effective playoff player too.

Trading him for anything less than a real star player would be an ill-advised instance of making the perfect the enemy of the good IMHO.  
 

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