Lawrence Pilut Called Up/McCabe out with UBI

[PASabreFan]

Why not!

[Hawerchuk]

Funny how "The Buffalo Flagship Sports Station" WGR550 has ZERO info on Pilut being called up. I always come to SABRESPACE to get the info first.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Hawerchuk

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Do we think the Sabres might be in on PK Subban?  When I heard he was looking out of NJ a few days ago I thought about his fit for the Sabres.  Yes $9MM for the next 2 years is a lot, but we have two key defensemen on entry level deals for 1 more year and it could allow us to dump the Okposo and Bogo contracts while only giving up prospects like Pilut, Tage.  I'd throw in Middlestat if we could get out from under Okposo's contract because if we can, that means we get Subban for $3MM a year ($9MM for PK - $6MM for Kyle) while freeing up $6MM in '22-23.  I think everyone agrees PK isn't work $9MM a year, but in this scenario it is affordable and makes this team better short and long-term.

Also, I know Kype has a Modified NTC where he can submit a list of 15 teams, but NJ may be a fit if he still has any ties to the tri-state area.

This, right here, is the exact opposite of what this team should be doing. Trading multiple young assets for a veteran who doesn't play a position we need and doing it so you can clear bogo and or okposo. 

[Mustache of God]

6 minutes ago, Hawerchuk said:

Funny how "The Buffalo Flagship Sports Station" WGR550 has ZERO info on Pilut being called up. I always come to SABRESPACE to get the info first.

The bills season starts in about 250 days so they need to have round the clock coverage ...

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

I thought he looked good during the first Devils/Sabres match-up this year.  A lot of times he looked like he was the only one on the ice for the Devils doing anything.  The second time they played he looked worn down and beat up.  For the Devils, he was "the guy," for the Sabres, he won't have to be "the guy."  I think in this system PK would do well, and give us a big physical presence on the blue line that this team desperately needs.  

IMO we would have to give up one of our best blueline prospects and a middle top forward prospect if they were willing to take on the Okposo contract, which is why when there was news on Pilut it peaked my interest.  

... he wouldn't even be our biggest or most physical right handed defender. 

[Curt]

2 hours ago, bob_sauve28 said:

Subban looks like he has really lost a step or two. Big guy who isn't as quick as he use to be, IMO 

2 hours ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

I thought he looked good during the first Devils/Sabres match-up this year.  A lot of times he looked like he was the only one on the ice for the Devils doing anything.  The second time they played he looked worn down and beat up.  For the Devils, he was "the guy," for the Sabres, he won't have to be "the guy."  I think in this system PK would do well, and give us a big physical presence on the blue line that this team desperately needs.  

IMO we would have to give up one of our best blueline prospects and a middle top forward prospect if they were willing to take on the Okposo contract, which is why when there was news on Pilut it peaked my interest.  

I’m not sure what people think of him, but PK Subban is not a big physical defenseman.  He is kinda thick but he is short and doesn’t play a very physical game.
 

 

Edited January 7, 2020 by Curt

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

This, right here, is the exact opposite of what this team should be doing. Trading multiple young assets for a veteran who doesn't play a position we need and doing it so you can clear bogo and or okposo. 

Assets are only assets when they bring value to the NHL club.  Young assets are assets that don't help the Sabres in the near future, which is where this team needs help.  Pilut is a 24 year old undersized defenseman that has a likely ceiling of a #4/5 defenseman on a good team while spending time on the PP.  He is replaceable.  I wouldn't put both Tage and Middlestat in the package, but if it frees up enough cap space to make a move on a top 5 forward I would send one of them out without batting an eye.  

For too long this club has been in rebuild mode.  The answer to building a contender at this point is not stockpiling Tier 1 and Tier 2 assets for the future, but finding the right mix of players that support long-term organic growth while making multiple incremental moves to improve depth and consistency on the big club.   We have 6-7 tier 1 and tier 2 prospects in the minors.  Most contenders do not because they flip them for on-ice NHL assets. 

[Mustache of God]

It JNOT goes out and makes a trade to bring in a defensemen I will angrily eat a sandwhich.

[nfreeman]

@CMDeDominicis

 

Refresher from last season here are the numbers for 24-55 pair in 223 TOI at 5v5 (SVA) according to

@EvolvingWild

: Shot attempts (CF%) - 54.28% Shot quality (xGF%) - 53.78% Interesting part is their GF% was low @ 43.98%. Could be some bad luck as they had a 5% on-ice shooting%

1:10 PM · Jan 7, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

3 minutes ago, Mustache of God said:

It JNOT goes out and makes a trade to bring in a defensemen I will angrily eat a sandwhich.

Unless he moves 1-2 D-men out at the same time to make moves for a forward.  The cap is handcuffing a lot of teams this year, and as good as the Sabres cap situation is next year, this year is proving to be brutal, especially with the LTIR possible costing us some room next year.   

Edited January 7, 2020 by SHAAAUGHT!!!
D men

[Sabre fan]

I would love to move Bogo but there is no takers, especially at his cap-hit. I am glad Pilut is up though.  And we do NOT NEED Subban. We need a forward if anything although trade for Frolik was a big step in the right direction...

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, Hawerchuk said:

Funny how "The Buffalo Flagship Sports Station" WGR550 has ZERO info on Pilut being called up. I always come to SABRESPACE to get the info first.

All you need is WBDO, Brawndo Radio, all links, all the time. 690 on your AM dial, cats and kittens.

41 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

@CMDeDominicis

 

Refresher from last season here are the numbers for 24-55 pair in 223 TOI at 5v5 (SVA) according to

@EvolvingWild

: Shot attempts (CF%) - 54.28% Shot quality (xGF%) - 53.78% Interesting part is their GF% was low @ 43.98%. Could be some bad luck as they had a 5% on-ice shooting%

1:10 PM · Jan 7, 2020·Twitter for iPhone

I'd like to exhume my dead Italian immigrant grocery storekeeper grandfather and try to explain how this information will be part of humanity's future.

[LGR4GM]

2 hours ago, SHAAAUGHT!!! said:

Assets are only assets when they bring value to the NHL club.  Young assets are assets that don't help the Sabres in the near future, which is where this team needs help.  Pilut is a 24 year old undersized defenseman that has a likely ceiling of a #4/5 defenseman on a good team while spending time on the PP.  He is replaceable.  I wouldn't put both Tage and Middlestat in the package, but if it frees up enough cap space to make a move on a top 5 forward I would send one of them out without batting an eye.  

For too long this club has been in rebuild mode.  The answer to building a contender at this point is not stockpiling Tier 1 and Tier 2 assets for the future, but finding the right mix of players that support long-term organic growth while making multiple incremental moves to improve depth and consistency on the big club.   We have 6-7 tier 1 and tier 2 prospects in the minors.  Most contenders do not because they flip them for on-ice NHL assets. 

IMO this not how to rebuild. This is the Murray approach which did not work in any way shape or form. Taking young promising prospects, getting impatient, and trading them.

If the only criteria for a defender is size (you have mentioned size in each post) than you are going to end up with a bunch of oversized guys that aren't useful contributors. Pk Subbam (6' 210lbs) plays a position we do not need. He plays probably the only position we just don't need at all on the entire team. We have 4 right handed defenders right now. Montour, Ristolainen, Jokiharju and Miller. Miller and Risto are bigger. Joki and Montour the same size. PK might weigh a bit more. 

Tage and Casey make no money. They free up almost no room and sending them to Rochester basically frees up their entire cap hit anyway. This is nonsensical from a cap standpoint. While I would agree neither player may make an NHL impact, if you are going to trade them you have to get something you need in return. We need forward help. 

Lawrence Pilut is probably the 2nd best LHD on this team right now. I cannot fathom how he doesn't bring us value by playing for us. Risto with Pilut last season was starting to really click before Pilut was injured. 

We do not have 6-7 tier 1 or 2 prospects in the minors (by minors I assume you mean AHL, to be honest I might be able to get to 6 if I included the junior levels). We have Mitts, Tage is injured, and maybe one of the defenders not named Pilut. With Pilut we have 4. The contenders do not because they are either on the big cub or they have less than your 6-7 threshold. They do not trade all of that for NHL assets. They stay at the junior level, play a year or two of minor hockey and either get moved, promoted, or remain in the AHL. Most teams at the minor AHL level have probably around 4 guys. Why? Because in each draft you only end up with 2-3 players that ever have an NHL shot. Tampa is a good example of this. Cernak, Stephens, Cirelli all spent a year in the minors and then came up. None were traded away. If the Sabres truly had 6 AHL guys, I might agree with you but they simply do not currently. 

I couldn't disagree with you more in regards to Subban. The bottom line is that trading for PK Subban specifically is a waste of assets for a team that simply doesn't need another defender. You can argue that we could trade a defender to free room for PK but why? Why would we do that? How does that help us? Adding 9mil to the cap certainly hurts more than it helps and if you have the ability to cut Bogo lose and someone else to free up cap this year, it would be foolish to waste it on a player that fills no need for the team and has 2 more full seasons at that 9mil cap hit. That means that you still have that 9mil against your books when Dahlin and Jokiharju need new deals. 

Find me a center 25 or younger (Anthony Cirelli) that you want to get and I will be more than happy to clear cap and send out Tage or Mitts or potentially Pilut. The concept of doing that because PK Subban is big (again 6 foot tall and 210lbs isn't really big) and is a name we have heard of just isn't the best way to allocate assets. Assets that have been mismanaged for a decade. 

Edited January 7, 2020 by LGR4GM

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

IMO this not how to rebuild. This is the Murray approach which did not work in any way shape or form. Taking young promising prospects, getting impatient, and trading them.

If the only criteria for a defender is size (you have mentioned size in each post) than you are going to end up with a bunch of oversized guys that aren't useful contributors. Pk Subbam (6' 210lbs) plays a position we do not need. He plays probably the only position we just don't need at all on the entire team. We have 4 right handed defenders right now. Montour, Ristolainen, Jokiharju and Miller. Miller and Risto are bigger. Joki and Montour the same size. PK might weigh a bit more. 

Tage and Casey make no money. They free up almost no room and sending them to Rochester basically frees up their entire cap hit anyway. This is nonsensical from a cap standpoint. While I would agree neither player may make an NHL impact, if you are going to trade them you have to get something you need in return. We need forward help. 

Lawrence Pilut is probably the 2nd best LHD on this team right now. I cannot fathom how he doesn't bring us value by playing for us. Risto with Pilut last season was starting to really click before Pilut was injured. 

We do not have 6-7 tier 1 or 2 prospects in the minors (by minors I assume you mean AHL, to be honest I might be able to get to 6 if I included the junior levels). We have Mitts, Tage is injured, and maybe one of the defenders not named Pilut. With Pilut we have 4. The contenders do not because they are either on the big cub or they have less than your 6-7 threshold. They do not trade all of that for NHL assets. They stay at the junior level, play a year or two of minor hockey and either get moved, promoted, or remain in the AHL. Most teams at the minor AHL level have probably around 4 guys. Why? Because in each draft you only end up with 2-3 players that ever have an NHL shot. Tampa is a good example of this. Cernak, Stephens, Cirelli all spent a year in the minors and then came up. None were traded away. If the Sabres truly had 6 AHL guys, I might agree with you but they simply do not currently. 

I couldn't disagree with you more in regards to Subban. The bottom line is that trading for PK Subban specifically is a waste of assets for a team that simply doesn't need another defender. You can argue that we could trade a defender to free room for PK but why? Why would we do that? How does that help us? Adding 9mil to the cap certainly hurts more than it helps and if you have the ability to cut Bogo lose and someone else to free up cap this year, it would be foolish to waste it on a player that fills no need for the team and has 2 more full seasons at that 9mil cap hit. That means that you still have that 9mil against your books when Dahlin and Jokiharju need new deals. 

Find me a center 25 or younger (Anthony Cirelli) that you want to get and I will be more than happy to clear cap and send out Tage or Mitts or potentially Pilut. The concept of doing that because PK Subban is big (again 6 foot tall and 210lbs isn't really big) and is a name we have heard of just isn't the best way to allocate assets. Assets that have been mismanaged for a decade. 

Really can't see Subban being brought in unless the price is unimaginably cheap, which, by definition is unimaginable. ?

Botterill hasn't given up any young pieces that projected to being anything but very long shots while building the roster to what it is at present.  Though last year, and this year, there was cause/need to do so to make the 2nd line reasonable/ good.  The earliest his time line has this team being relevant barring catching lightning in a bottle is next season.  Can't see a move for PK fitting in with Botterill's timeline for the REAL targeted window being open.

Several here have speculated that Botterill sees the window centered around Dahlin's prime.  Haven't really seen anything from the Sabres to give reason to believe that isn't correct.  And, while IMHO that wasn't his original plan, when the team won the lottery and the decision to punt O'Reilly was made, that became the plan.  It would explain wasting the cap freed up when Berglund walked.  (He didn't  want to lose prospects/picks to get a guy he expected to be available this past summer (whether it was Hayes, Miller, Joyansson or other he'd've looked at last year; several of them were available, some just for cash, this past summer), so he stood pat driving everybody crazy with the inaction).  Though it doesn't explain continuing to try to force Mittelstadt into the 2C role until only ~1 month remained in the season.  (That could simply be on Housley.)

[PASabreFan]

7 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Really can't see Subban being brought in unless the price is unimaginably cheap, which, by definition is unimaginable. ?

Botterill hasn't given up any young pieces that projected to being anything but very long shots while building the roster to what it is at present.  Though last year, and this year, there was cause/need to do so to make the 2nd line reasonable/ good.  The earliest his time line has this team being relevant barring catching lightning in a bottle is next season.  Can't see a move for PK fitting in with Botterill's timeline for the REAL targeted window being open.

Several here have speculated that Botterill sees the window centered around Dahlin's prime.  Haven't really seen anything from the Sabres to give reason to believe that isn't correct.  And, while IMHO that wasn't his original plan, when the team won the lottery and the decision to punt O'Reilly was made, that became the plan.  It would explain wasting the cap freed up when Berglund walked.  (He didn't  want to lose prospects/picks to get a guy he expected to be available this past summer (whether it was Hayes, Miller, Joyansson or other he'd've looked at last year; several of them were available, some just for cash, this past summer), so he stood pat driving everybody crazy with the inaction).  Though it doesn't explain continuing to try to force Mittelstadt into the 2C role until only ~1 month remained in the season.  (That could simply be on Housley.)

I pray God "window" is "window to win Cups" and not "window to be a playoff team."

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

I pray God "window" is "window to win Cups" and not "window to be a playoff team."

Yes, it is.  Window to seriously contend to win Cups specifically.  (When barely under 97% of the teams don't win in any given year, really don't believe you can plan for any more than that.)

[Pimlach]

21 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

I'm excited that the franchise has finally decided to play its second best LHD. 

Eeh.  I was hoping Borgen passed Pilut on the depth chart.  Understand Will is a RHD.  
 

Last season Pilut showed nice skills but he really did buckle as the season wore on and when things got physical.   Big forwards have their way with him in corners and around the net.  St Louis will be a real test.  I prefer we build a bigger and stronger backline.  

[SHAAAUGHT!!!]

22 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

IMO this not how to rebuild. This is the Murray approach which did not work in any way shape or form. Taking young promising prospects, getting impatient, and trading them.  

If the only criteria for a defender is size (you have mentioned size in each post) than you are going to end up with a bunch of oversized guys that aren't useful contributors. Pk Subbam (6' 210lbs) plays a position we do not need. He plays probably the only position we just don't need at all on the entire team. We have 4 right handed defenders right now. Montour, Ristolainen, Jokiharju and Miller. Miller and Risto are bigger. Joki and Montour the same size. PK might weigh a bit more. 

Tage and Casey make no money. They free up almost no room and sending them to Rochester basically frees up their entire cap hit anyway. This is nonsensical from a cap standpoint. While I would agree neither player may make an NHL impact, if you are going to trade them you have to get something you need in return. We need forward help. 

Lawrence Pilut is probably the 2nd best LHD on this team right now. I cannot fathom how he doesn't bring us value by playing for us. Risto with Pilut last season was starting to really click before Pilut was injured. 

We do not have 6-7 tier 1 or 2 prospects in the minors (by minors I assume you mean AHL, to be honest I might be able to get to 6 if I included the junior levels). We have Mitts, Tage is injured, and maybe one of the defenders not named Pilut. With Pilut we have 4. The contenders do not because they are either on the big cub or they have less than your 6-7 threshold. They do not trade all of that for NHL assets. They stay at the junior level, play a year or two of minor hockey and either get moved, promoted, or remain in the AHL. Most teams at the minor AHL level have probably around 4 guys. Why? Because in each draft you only end up with 2-3 players that ever have an NHL shot. Tampa is a good example of this. Cernak, Stephens, Cirelli all spent a year in the minors and then came up. None were traded away. If the Sabres truly had 6 AHL guys, I might agree with you but they simply do not currently. 

I couldn't disagree with you more in regards to Subban. The bottom line is that trading for PK Subban specifically is a waste of assets for a team that simply doesn't need another defender. You can argue that we could trade a defender to free room for PK but why? Why would we do that? How does that help us? Adding 9mil to the cap certainly hurts more than it helps and if you have the ability to cut Bogo lose and someone else to free up cap this year, it would be foolish to waste it on a player that fills no need for the team and has 2 more full seasons at that 9mil cap hit. That means that you still have that 9mil against your books when Dahlin and Jokiharju need new deals. 

Find me a center 25 or younger (Anthony Cirelli) that you want to get and I will be more than happy to clear cap and send out Tage or Mitts or potentially Pilut. The concept of doing that because PK Subban is big (again 6 foot tall and 210lbs isn't really big) and is a name we have heard of just isn't the best way to allocate assets. Assets that have been mismanaged for a decade. 

Murray's biggest fault was his lack of personality.  It's hard for someone who doesn't have a personality to build a team in a sport like hockey.  The GM role was too big for him to handle and we are still feeling it.

Size is not my only criteria for a player and this proposal is more complicated that this player for that player because of "name that advanced stat."  My proposal allows us to get away from Okposo's and Bogo's contracts which reduces the impact of Okposo's contract to the Sabres by 1 year and $6MM (PKs contract is one year shorter).  Just like Kyle's contract, moving Bogo's contract clears up space for this year and helps us with our current LTIR situation and risk to our cap next year (same can be said for dumping Kyles contract).  This will cost us a prospect or two but a move like this could provide the space to allow up to get that 24/25 year old center with term on his contract.   These are the types of scenarios that I hope JBott is evaluating, and I hope he is rejecting them when its not going to help the Sabres long-term.  

Tier1/2 prospects:  for sure Pilut, Mitts, Tage, Cozens, Ukko, Asplund (yes he's called up for now); up for debate Borgen and Johansson 

Dahlin, Joker, Risto, McCabe, Miller, Montour, Pilut, Bogo -->  Dahlin, Joker, Risto, McCabe, Miller/Montour, Subban?  I could get behind that. 

[Kruppstahl]

On 1/7/2020 at 10:12 AM, Curt said:

Yay!  Let’s see how he looks.  I hope he can stick.

Pilut is a top 4 D man in this organization in my opinion.

Of course, the brain surgeons running the organization have him in Rochester, and like to play guys like McCabe and BOGO.

 

 

[GASabresIUFAN]

18 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

Pilut is a top 4 D man in this organization in my opinion.

Of course, the brain surgeons running the organization have him in Rochester, and like to play guys like McCabe and BOGO.

 

 

Pilut isn’t a better puck mover then Montour, Dahlin  or Joker.  He also isn’t as good defensively as McCabe or the combination of traits that is Risto.  At best he is our 5th best D which given his age and contract sent him to Rochester to give him top line minutes.  If he plays well he could stick and allow Jbot the freedom to trade Miller or McCabe but only time will tell.