Skinner out 3-4 Weeks with an UBI

[Thorny]

@Neo

Edited December 29, 2019 by Thorny

[PASabreFan]

19 minutes ago, Neo said:

I thought you missed the point during this conversation months ago.   I think you still do.  What “reality” did we miss at the draft?  

Nothing, nada, zero, zip, zilch about evaluating a young player, projecting and being wildly excited, suggest you’ve proven he’s a HOFer, that you KNOW he’s a HOFer, etc.   “Ge’s going to be a great one” and “He’s not there, yet” arent mutually exclusive.   Hell, if he NEVER arrives, the hype was still justified.  It’s just hype that dissapoints on the downside.  If the dippsy doodle video didn’t thrill you, well ....

You can recognize the reality in “he may not” while saying “I expect he will”.

What about the homosapiens, upper level, thinking skills that allows man to assess and see forward upsets you?  I’m trying to imagine a world where I could react only to reality as it exists in this moment. It’s not dull, it’s impossible.

LeBron James and Tony Mandarich.  Both were hyped because they did things that were hype-able.  For God’s sake, man, are’t we all here to talk about yesterday, today and tomorrow.   The “Dahlin” bugaboo is yours. Imagine everyone here saying “you cant know that for certain” after every sentence addressing tomorrow.

I buy groceries a week at a time.   I’m not sure, positive, certain that I’ll be alive tomorrow.   Evaluating the best evidence I have today, I believe I will be.   If you tell me to pump the brakes at the checkout line, I’ll smile and say “you know me, a wild optimist!”

Dahlin’s career and tape going into the draft suggested greatness.  It was sure fun to see and talk about.   He’s not yet been anointed “the greatest”  16 months in.  Yawn ....  I still think he will be.   Oh, allow me my own astute grasp of the obvious ....  he may not ever be, just like every tomorrow may not be.

Now, I have to run.   I’m going to buy Christmas cards and tinsel on sale, to use next year ... in the future I believe most likely coming.

Assess and dream are two very different things. The reality people missed is that highlight videos from lower leagues don't (or rarely) translate to the top league. Do you know how many goals Vaclav Varada scored in the WHL?

[Thorny]

Enough to get him drafted 89th overall

[Neo]

8 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Assess and dream are two very different things. The reality people missed is that highlight videos from lower leagues don't (or rarely) translate to the top league. Do you know how many goals Vaclav Varada scored in the WHL?

You can assess.  You can dream.  You can write about both.  No one said or believes lower level anything necessarily translates to upper level anything.  It suggests.  It guides.  When it excites, all the better ...  just like everyone’s said about any sports draft, try out, recital, rehearsal, practice session ...  ever.

You’re creating a point no one made, attributing it to many, and arguing against it.

Edited December 29, 2019 by Neo

[PASabreFan]

6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Enough to get him drafted 89th overall

He got the 89 goals in two seasons after being drafted. I don't recall a lot of chatter that he was going to be the greatest goal scorer in Sabres history. But that was before a time when everyone saw everything as amaaaaaaazzzzziiiiing.

[PASabreFan]

11 minutes ago, Neo said:

You can assess.  You can dream.  You can write about both.  No one said or believes lower level anything necessarily translates to upper level anything.  It suggests.  It guides.  When it excites, all the better ...  just like everyone’s said about any sports draft, try out, recital, rehearsal, practice session ...  ever.

You’re creating a point no one made, attributing it to many, and arguing against it.

Welp, I saw enough posts about Norris Trophies, MVPs, HOFs and Greatest Sabre of All Time to know I didn't erect the strawman (with that woman, Miss Lewinsky).

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

He got the 89 goals in two seasons after being drafted. I don't recall a lot of chatter that he was going to be the greatest goal scorer in Sabres history. But that was before a time when everyone saw everything as amaaaaaaazzzzziiiiing.

Greatest goal scorer in Sabres history to look like he’s eternally losing a fight between a weed-wacker and his face. 

[Thorny]

2 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Welp, I saw enough posts about Norris Trophies, MVPs, HOFs and Greatest Sabre of All Time to know I didn't erect the strawman (with that woman, Miss Lewinsky).

WHY are you trying to frame an argument for what he could very well accomplish throughout the duration of a multi-decade career through the prism of what he’s accomplished in 100 odd NHL games at 18 and 19?! 

Yes, Dahlin isn’t a Norris level defender at this time. Congrats, we’ve conceded the point. 

[PASabreFan]

2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Greatest goal scorer in Sabres history to look like he’s eternally losing a fight between a weed-wacker and his face. 

That face drove the Flyers wild.

[Brawndo]

1 hour ago, Neo said:

I thought you missed the point during this conversation months ago.   I think you still do.  What “reality” did we miss at the draft?  

Nothing, nada, zero, zip, zilch about evaluating a young player, projecting and being wildly excited, suggests you’ve proven he’s a HOFer, that you KNOW he’s a HOFer, etc.   “He’s going to be a great one” and “He’s not there, yet” arent mutually exclusive.   Hell, if he NEVER arrives, the hype was still justified.  It’s just hype that dissapoints on the downside.  If the dippsy doodle video didn’t thrill you, well ....

One can recognize the reality in “he may not” while saying “I expect he will”.

What about the HomoSapiens, and upper level thinking skills allowing man to see forward, upsets you?  I’m trying to imagine a world where I could react only to reality as it exists in this moment. It’s not dull, it’s impossible.

LeBron James and Tony Mandarich.  Both were hyped because they did things that were hype-able.  For God’s sake, man, are’t we all here to talk about yesterday, today and tomorrow.   The “Dahlin” bugaboo is yours. Imagine everyone here saying “you cant know that for certain” after every sentence addressing tomorrow.

I buy groceries a week at a time.   I’m not sure, positive, certain that I’ll be alive tomorrow.   Evaluating the best evidence I have today, I believe I will be.   If you tell me to pump the brakes at the checkout line, I’ll smile and say “you know me, a wild optimist!”

Dahlin’s career and tape going into the draft suggested greatness.  It was sure fun to see and talk about.   He’s not yet been anointed “the greatest”  16 months in.  Yawn ....  I still think he will be.   Oh, allow me my own astute grasp of the obvious ....  he may not ever be, just like every tomorrow may not be.

Now, I have to run.   I’m going to buy Christmas cards and tinsel on sale, to use next year ... in the future I believe most likely coming.

 

 

Tony Mandarich? 
 

[Neo]

1 minute ago, Brawndo said:

Tony Mandarich? 
 

 

[Curt]

5 hours ago, Weave said:

I think that a 19 yr old defenseman having the expectation to be that difference maker is a problem.  We here collectively expected it given the Norris and HOF talk.  Noone last year or this year was saying things like Norris is spite of 10 goal seasons.  It was his offensive game that was brought up the most.

No one said he was going to win a Norris or secure a place in the HOF at age 19.

[Brawndo]

34 minutes ago, Neo said:

 

The NFL’s Anti  Steroid Program was much more stringent than the NCAA’s 

Edited December 29, 2019 by Brawndo

[Zamboni]

Fans all the time think that success in lower league Will definitely translate to success in the NHL. You don’t have to look any further than the banter on this message board about Cozens. And the majority of the time it never pans out as successful as they think it will. I think the majority of the fans have a hard time with measured expectations. Instead they get disappointed because they had elevated grand sometimes unrealistic expectations to begin with.

[Thorny]

4 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Fans all the time think that success in lower league Will definitely translate to success in the NHL. You don’t have to look any further than the banter on this message board about Cozens. And the majority of the time it never pans out as successful as they think it will. I think the majority of the fans have a hard time with measured expectations. Instead they get disappointed because they had elevated grand sometimes unrealistic expectations to begin with.

Less concerned about the fans doing so than I am with Botterill doing it. As he did with Mittelstadt and many fear he will do with Cozens. 

[jad1]

31 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Fans all the time think that success in lower league Will definitely translate to success in the NHL. You don’t have to look any further than the banter on this message board about Cozens. And the majority of the time it never pans out as successful as they think it will. I think the majority of the fans have a hard time with measured expectations. Instead they get disappointed because they had elevated grand sometimes unrealistic expectations to begin with.

As long as the NHL continues to draft 18 year olds, this will be the case.  A top ten pick is not a guaranteed contributor.

This is why good GMs don't solely rely on the draft to build a team.  They also use trades and, to a lesser extent, free agency.  

Sitting on your hands waiting for 18 and 19 year olds to figure things out is an good way for an NHL GM to get himself fired.

[Weave]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

No one said he was going to win a Norris or secure a place in the HOF at age 19.

My point was missed.  And I am way to grouchy about non hockey things to expand on it.  White flag raised.

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, freester said:

The rhetoric I’m hearing on Cozens sounds very similar to the Mittlestadt propaganda that came out after he was drafted. Let’s give Cozens time to develop in Rochester and not count on him to be a 2 C next year. Mitts may never be an NHL player. 

Very different player, very different style of play, very different attitude. Unlike Mitts, with Cozens it's not a question of if, just a question of when.

[Curt]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

Very different player, very different style of play, very different attitude. Unlike Mitts, with Cozens it's not a question of if, just a question of when.

Yeah, pretty sure people said the same thing about Mitts.  Not saying either is wrong, just saying.....

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Very different player, very different style of play, very different attitude. Unlike Mitts, with Cozens it's not a question of if, just a question of when.

Well it certainly ain't next season, that's for sure. 

[PerreaultForever]

1 hour ago, Curt said:

Yeah, pretty sure people said the same thing about Mitts.  Not saying either is wrong, just saying.....

I can't speak for others but I never felt that way about Mitts. I was surprised he didn't go to Rochester last year, thought he had some skills and speed but was in no way ready. I never understood the development path they gave him. Still don't. Cozens is a different sort of player. Dach is playing well in Chicago. Cozens might surprise you. 

[Taro T]

5 hours ago, Curt said:

No one said he was going to win a Norris or secure a place in the HOF at age 19.

Actually, there are several that have implied that.  But this kid warrants some of that unwarranted hyperbole.  (Warrants it far more than several others that have received similar with a far thinner resume.)

But, though Norris dreams & HoF elections are supremely premature (as were claims that he'd be the best Sabre (not just D-man, but Sabre)  this season), IMHO he WILL be the best Sabres D-man ever by the time his career is done.  (Yeah, that's a low bar, but let's get there 1st and then worry about whether he was better than Potvin, Robinson, Shore, Harvey, or Orr once we agree he's better than Schoenfeld, Ramsey, and Zhitnik.)

[Thorny]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Actually, there are several that have implied that.  But this kid warrants some of that unwarranted hyperbole.  (Warrants it far more than several others that have received similar with a far thinner resume.)

But, though Norris dreams & HoF elections are supremely premature (as were claims that he'd be the best Sabre (not just D-man, but Sabre)  this season), IMHO he WILL be the best Sabres D-man ever by the time his career is done.  (Yeah, that's a low bar, but let's get there 1st and then worry about whether he was better than Potvin, Robinson, Shore, Harvey, or Orr once we agree he's better than Schoenfeld, Ramsey, and Zhitnik.)

Norris dreams are definitely not premature. It's a dream - certainly within reason of happening one day given his talent and pedigree and what we've seen so far. 

WINNING a Norris at 19 is something I don't think anyone tried to predict. 

[Curt]

41 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Actually, there are several that have implied that.  But this kid warrants some of that unwarranted hyperbole.  (Warrants it far more than several others that have received similar with a far thinner resume.)

But, though Norris dreams & HoF elections are supremely premature (as were claims that he'd be the best Sabre (not just D-man, but Sabre)  this season), IMHO he WILL be the best Sabres D-man ever by the time his career is done.  (Yeah, that's a low bar, but let's get there 1st and then worry about whether he was better than Potvin, Robinson, Shore, Harvey, or Orr once we agree he's better than Schoenfeld, Ramsey, and Zhitnik.)

Several people implied that he would win the Norris this season ?  That he would secure his place in the HOF this season?

I don’t recall seeing it written.