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Skinner out 3-4 Weeks with an UBI


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3 hours ago, freester said:

The rhetoric I’m hearing on Cozens sounds very similar to the Mittlestadt propaganda that came out after he was drafted. Let’s give Cozens time to develop in Rochester and not count on him to be a 2 C next year. Mitts may never be an NHL player. 

Unfortunately Cozens is not eligible for the AHL until 2021-22, but I agree wholeheartedly he should not be counted on to be 2C for at least two more seasons. 

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18 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

25 goals in the calendar year 2019 will get fans thinking that way. He's a one-way, one-trick player who's producing very little down the lineup.

On a brighter note, Dahlin has two goals all season. Would love to go back in time and make that prediction in the Dahlin: How Many Norrises? thread and watch heads explode.

... Dahlin is probably going to be a 10 goal a season guy. He's gonna win the Norris for everything else he does. No one cares he only has 2 goals. 

Edited by LGR4GM
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9 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I know some think this way. I don’t think JB does.

Hard to argue that he doesn't (though, hopefully you are right).

After trading away O'Reilly, he expected Berglund to be able to fill in as 2C for a season or 2 as the 2C until Mittelstadt had developed into the role either this year or next.  When Berglund flamed out as the 2C, Mittelstadt was given that assignment quite often and far before he was ready.  Which, with Housley nailing Larsson into some of the defensivemost situations in the entire league left Casey, Rodrigues, Sobotka, or a call up as the only options to fill that role.  (Considering we've seen at least 3 coaches now that have never given Reinhart more than a cup of coffee at C, didn't include him as an option.)  That was, until Berglund bailed.  Botterill at that point had $4MM in new found cap space available to bring somebody like Johansson in.  He chose to ride it out with Mitts & E-Rod primarily filling the 2C role.

This off-season Botts did bring in Johansson, but never mentioned a plan to use him at C.  He was always discussed as being a W (if somebody has an interview of him or Krueger mentioning him at C before he actually started playing there, my bad, but every single one I'd seen/heard had him at W).  So, the plan heading into this season was either to put Mitts in that role prematurely again, or put E-Rod there, which brought up its own issues.  Though with Johansson pencilled in at wing and no external reinforcements coming, E-Rod was likely their best of bad options to fill that slot provided his wingers were Skinner and Marcus.

Considering he's set the table 2 times in 2 years where the 2nd option to fix the 2C slot was to rely on an unproven kid that plays unconventionally, hard to blame people for expecting that Botterill's plan (or 2nd option at minimum) to fix 2C next season isn't an unproven kid with a conventional style and very good size and speed.

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5 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

... Dahlin is probably going to be a 10 goal a season guy. He's gonna win the Norris for everything else he does. No one cares he only has 2 goals. 

I care. The team is starved for goals. He's face to face with the goalie and plops it wide. Not good enough.

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Botterill fell in love with Mitts and ***** up everything by believing he was an answer for almost a year with no backup plan. Botterill sucks at evaluating forward talent. 

3 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

I care. The team is starved for goals. He's face to face with the goalie and plops it wide. Not good enough.

So you think Dahlin is a problem? 

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1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

I care. The team is starved for goals. He's face to face with the goalie and plops it wide. Not good enough.

As does every single non-teenager on this squad not named Eichel or Olofsson at present.

Would've been nice if he'd've buried that 1 for sure.  And, no, it's not good enough, which is why they lost a game they actually battled pretty well in against a much better team.  (They have no answer that can completely shutdown the league's best line.  Not many teams have that answer.)

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2 minutes ago, Taro T said:

As does every single non-teenager on this squad not named Eichel or Olofsson at present.

Would've been nice if he'd've buried that 1 for sure.  And, no, it's not good enough, which is why they lost a game they actually battled pretty well in against a much better team.  (They have no answer that can completely shutdown the league's best line.  Not many teams have that 

Be nice if the 19 year old defender wasn't the guy we have to rely to score,  regardless of the fact his zone exit on that chance is something how many defenders in the league could do?

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27 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Botterill fell in love with Mitts and ***** up everything by believing he was an answer for almost a year with no backup plan. Botterill sucks at evaluating forward talent. 

So you think Dahlin is a problem? 

I think that a 19 yr old defenseman having the expectation to be that difference maker is a problem.  We here collectively expected it given the Norris and HOF talk.  Noone last year or this year was saying things like Norris is spite of 10 goal seasons.  It was his offensive game that was brought up the most.

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30 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Be nice if the 19 year old defender wasn't the guy we have to rely to score,  regardless of the fact his zone exit on that chance is something how many defenders in the league could do?

On the four on four? He skated back uncontested and brought it up ice with virtually no Bruin challenging him. Big deal. Stop pumping his tires. Think of your fellow fans. We value your opinion.

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40 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

On the four on four? He skated back uncontested and brought it up ice with virtually no Bruin challenging him. Big deal. Stop pumping his tires. Think of your fellow fans. We value your opinion.

We're not talking about the same play I don't think. 

Also idk what your last 3 sentences are. You started this entire thing by suggesting you wished you could brag about how Dahlin wasn't scoring. 

Edited by LGR4GM
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45 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

On the four on four? He skated back uncontested and brought it up ice with virtually no Bruin challenging him. Big deal. Stop pumping his tires. Think of your fellow fans. We value your opinion.

Stop being negative about Dahlin when he's very good. Think of your fellow fans. 

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On 12/28/2019 at 8:34 AM, CallawaySabres said:

Is that on top of the 3 weeks he has been missing already? The tank is officially on! 13th place in the east by this time tomorrow and Ottawa will be catching them soon. Top 5 pick is almost a lock barring a brutal lottery showing.

edmonton is sinking fast as well......2 terribly run franchises

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55 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

We're not talking about the same play I don't think. 

Also idk what your last 3 sentences are. You started this entire thing by suggesting you wished you could brag about how Dahlin wasn't scoring. 

Not bragging. I'd just like to see the reaction if Reality were presented to some of you at the time of the draft. You do remember the string of dipsy-dangle videos out of the Swedish League, right? Were you posting most of them? How many of those moves have you seen in the NHL?

The last three sentences are an attempted compliment. People do respect your opinion, as do I. But stop trying to make Dahlin into something he isn't yet. I'm not being negative, I'm just calling it like I see it. Dahlin has shown signs of being a top-notch contributor to the offensive side, despite almost no scoring touch, and defensively he's JAG. He's a very good prospect. I don't feel the need to scream Norris! every time he makes a play behind his own net and passes the puck to a teammate. You're the one trying wayyyy too hard to be proven right.

Edited by PASabreFan
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Dahlin is a developing young Dman. He hasn’t plateaued. He hasn’t regressed. He’s also at the present moment, far away from personal “pat em on the back” awards given by the league. And I couldn’t care less if he ever wins one. I am way more invested/interested in Dahlin developing and making the team overall better. Awards chasing (importance) are for chumps in my opinion. I know some fans and some players put a ton of stock in award winning. I don’t. 

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6 hours ago, freester said:

The rhetoric I’m hearing on Cozens sounds very similar to the Mittlestadt propaganda that came out after he was drafted. Let’s give Cozens time to develop in Rochester and not count on him to be a 2 C next year. Mitts may never be an NHL player. 

Oh ya, if Botterill enters into next season with Cozens pencilled in as his 2C, I wouldn’t even know what to say. Total incompetence both from a team building perspective and development standpoint. Fireable on its own. 

- - - 

As for a “bad” contract to Skinner being “the only choice we had”, I mean, that’s just not an acceptable set of circumstances. The bar cannot be that willfully low. 

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1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Not bragging. I'd just like to see the reaction if Reality were presented to some of you at the time of the draft. You do remember the string of dipsy-dangle videos out of the Swedish League, right? Were you posting most of them? How many of those moves have you seen in the NHL?

The last three sentences are an attempted compliment. People do respect your opinion, as do I. But stop trying to make Dahlin into something he isn't yet. I'm not being negative, I'm just calling it like I see it. Dahlin has shown signs of being a top-notch contributor to the offensive side, despite almost no scoring touch, and defensively he's JAG. He's a very good prospect. I don't feel the need to scream Norris! every time he makes a play behind his own net and passes the puck to a teammate. You're the one trying wayyyy too hard to be proven right.

What are you talking about? Proven right about what? 

First if you think Dahlin is a JAG defensively, holy ***** that's a poor take especially since he's returned from his injury. Jag means just a guy. That means any schmuck could do as good a job. This board needs to stop all this JAG crap that gets tossed around constantly. 

Second, reality at the time of the draft and now is that Dahlin does not have a great shot. I noted that. I still note that. His shot is the weakest part of his game. 

Third, I've seen Dahlin make a lot of those SHL moves. How have you not? The rush I thought we were talking about involved those moves.

Fourth, wtf am I making him into? You specifically brought up the Norris and  about Dahlin only having 2 goals and how you wanted to toss that into the faces of ppl who like Dahlin to see how they'd react.  

Five, let me react. He needs to improve his shot. Even if he does, I don't see Dahlin ever being much more than a 10-15 goal scorer because that's not what makes him special. 

Six, I didn't scream Norris. I didn't even post about the game. I bristled at the idea he isn't a good player because of only having 2 goals this season. He started poorly and until really the last few games hasn't looked like himself. Thankfully that appears to be changing. 

Seventh, and finally. Proven right about what? Dahlin being amazing? Winning a Norris? He might never win a Norris. Hope he does. 

Edited by LGR4GM
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49 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Dahlin is a developing young Dman. He hasn’t plateaued. He hasn’t regressed. He’s also at the present moment, far away from personal “pat em on the back” awards given by the league. And I couldn’t care less if he ever wins one. I am way more invested/interested in Dahlin developing and making the team overall better. Awards chasing (importance) are for chumps in my opinion. I know some fans and some players put a ton of stock in award winning. I don’t. 

I don't care if he ever wins anything with exception of the Cup. I have no problem with PA criticizing Dahlins shooting. It's just a weird thing to want to shove down the throats of ppl who like his overall game. 

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3 hours ago, Weave said:

I think that a 19 yr old defenseman having the expectation to be that difference maker is a problem.  We here collectively expected it given the Norris and HOF talk.  Noone last year or this year was saying things like Norris is spite of 10 goal seasons.  It was his offensive game that was brought up the most.

Duncan Keith won the Norris with 6 goals a few years ago. “In spite of 10 goals thing” doesn’t really come up much because it honestly isn’t a huge metric for measuring d-men. 

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Not bragging. I'd just like to see the reaction if Reality were presented to some of you at the time of the draft. You do remember the string of dipsy-dangle videos out of the Swedish League, right? Were you posting most of them? How many of those moves have you seen in the NHL?

The last three sentences are an attempted compliment. People do respect your opinion, as do I. But stop trying to make Dahlin into something he isn't yet. I'm not being negative, I'm just calling it like I see it. Dahlin has shown signs of being a top-notch contributor to the offensive side, despite almost no scoring touch, and defensively he's JAG. He's a very good prospect. I don't feel the need to scream Norris! every time he makes a play behind his own net and passes the puck to a teammate. You're the one trying wayyyy too hard to be proven right.

The straw man game is getting a little strong here. I and others have no problem admitting Dahlin’s current faults and areas in need of significant improvement, but you are misrepresenting the argument from our side by trying to impose some sort of “see! He can’t possibly be living up to your expectations!” judgment upon the thing. 

You are gonna have to accept that what he’s doing so far at such a young age can in fact be both viewed as pretty special, and more importantly, in line with what we were expecting even after all that draft buzz. Anyone who expected a fully formed Norris winner to pop right out on the ice, or THOUGHT anyone was expecting that, is barking up the wrong tree. 

Edited by Thorny
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There’s definitely something to be said for thinking about how these things get worded though when posting. No doubt, some of what I, or someone else, sees a player eventually becoming though analyzing pedigree, trajectory of performance, and, yes, belief, must seep into discussion and perhaps paint a rosier picture than others rightfully might readily accept. 

It remains important to try and differentiate between what a player will or may become and what they are at the given, specific moment. Look no further than the Eichel discussion. I touted him as a Hart candidate perhaps a full season too early because I saw him becoming it through everything we had witnessed. He DID get there, but I should have been more careful previous to that of drawing a finer line between certain belief for what he would become, and the current strict reality of the moment, as he probably wasn’t quite there at a time when evidently my personal belief was enough to bridge the distance I perceived. 

Hopefully it’s the same with Dahlin, but caution would do well with him or anyone as these things don’t always progress as hoped. Eichel taking that last step to bonafide MVP level player was NEVER a certainty and in fact the most difficult step to take. 

Edited by Thorny
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2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Not bragging. I'd just like to see the reaction if Reality were presented to some of you at the time of the draft. You do remember the string of dipsy-dangle videos out of the Swedish League, right? Were you posting most of them? How many of those moves have you seen in the NHL?

The last three sentences are an attempted compliment. People do respect your opinion, as do I. But stop trying to make Dahlin into something he isn't yet. I'm not being negative, I'm just calling it like I see it. Dahlin has shown signs of being a top-notch contributor to the offensive side, despite almost no scoring touch, and defensively he's JAG. He's a very good prospect. I don't feel the need to scream Norris! every time he makes a play behind his own net and passes the puck to a teammate. You're the one trying wayyyy too hard to be proven right.

I thought you missed the point during this conversation months ago.   I think you still do.  What “reality” did we miss at the draft?  

Nothing, nada, zero, zip, zilch about evaluating a young player, projecting and being wildly excited, suggests you’ve proven he’s a HOFer, that you KNOW he’s a HOFer, etc.   “He’s going to be a great one” and “He’s not there, yet” arent mutually exclusive.   Hell, if he NEVER arrives, the hype was still justified.  It’s just hype that dissapoints on the downside.  If the dippsy doodle video didn’t thrill you, well ....

One can recognize the reality in “he may not” while saying “I expect he will”.

What about the HomoSapiens, and upper level thinking skills allowing man to see forward, upsets you?  I’m trying to imagine a world where I could react only to reality as it exists in this moment. It’s not dull, it’s impossible.

LeBron James and Tony Mandarich.  Both were hyped because they did things that were hype-able.  For God’s sake, man, are’t we all here to talk about yesterday, today and tomorrow.   The “Dahlin” bugaboo is yours. Imagine everyone here saying “you cant know that for certain” after every sentence addressing tomorrow.

I buy groceries a week at a time.   I’m not sure, positive, certain that I’ll be alive tomorrow.   Evaluating the best evidence I have today, I believe I will be.   If you tell me to pump the brakes at the checkout line, I’ll smile and say “you know me, a wild optimist!”

Dahlin’s career and tape going into the draft suggested greatness.  It was sure fun to see and talk about.   He’s not yet been anointed “the greatest”  16 months in.  Yawn ....  I still think he will be.   Oh, allow me my own astute grasp of the obvious ....  he may not ever be, just like every tomorrow may not be.

Now, I have to run.   I’m going to buy Christmas cards and tinsel on sale, to use next year ... in the future I believe most likely coming.

 

 

Edited by Neo
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