GDT Bruins at Sabres 12/27/19 7pm MSG WGR

[Huckleberry]

3 hours ago, jad1 said:

Coaches and GMs are cheap, talent is not.  Sticking with the wrong guy for too long is worse than dumping a bad guy every year, because that bad guy can decimate the entire organization.

There's nothing in Pegula's history with the Bills or Sabres to suggest that he's going to give a GM or coach time to grow into his role if he's not getting results.

 

But he should with Botterill though.

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Huckleberry said:

But he should with Botterill though.

The problem with being uber patient with Botterill is that Botterill’s main goal is to extend his tenure as long as possible. That and actually, you know, winning do not have to be mutually exclusive, but they seem to be currently.

Edited December 28, 2019 by Thorny

[Huckleberry]

Just now, Thorny said:

The problem with being uber patient with Botterill is that Botterill’s main goal is to extend his tenure as long as possible. That and winning do not have to be mutually exclusive, but they seem to be currently. 

I think we all had that type of colleague or manager in our professional lives but Botterill doesn't give me the feeling he fits into that category.  I think he wants to improve this team and already has taken steps last year to do so.    They didn't all work out but I'm looking forward to this very important offseason.   

[Sabre1974]

2 hours ago, Huckleberry said:

I think we all had that type of colleague or manager in our professional lives but Botterill doesn't give me the feeling he fits into that category.  I think he wants to improve this team and already has taken steps last year to do so.    They didn't all work out but I'm looking forward to this very important offseason.   

He has to start doing something. 

[eman]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I hate to say this, but Boston didn't even play well tonight and they were missing (arguably) their best 2 defensemen and they still strolled to a shutout. We have a useless hockey team.

I was afraid this would happen, but it looks like Skinner is the most overpaid mid range talent in the league so good luck with the cap when the kids need to be paid, Reinhart is softer than melted butter, at least half the team (if not more) simply go through the motions each and every night, and I see virtually no possible trade scenario aside from a tear down (which won't happen until they fire JBot and we start all over yet again on another 5 year plan). There simply is no fix.

The only small light at the end of the tunnel I saw recently is I think Cozens is our 2C, if not next year the year after. He looked very good for Team Canada in the World Juniors. Kid is big, strong, goes to the dirty areas, plays a complete game. He will be the real deal and a perfect fit as a 2C. Samuelson also looked half decent and steady. 

Boston will smoke us at home.

Nailed it on all  counts! Totally agree.

[Gatorman0519]

We are going to end up with virtually the same record as last year.  JBot destroyed this team with the ROR trade and the Mitts pick.  He did nothing to fix one of the crappiest teams in the league.  We are now officially in the “we are wasting the career of one of the top 5 centers in the league” territory. 

[Mustache of God]

That game was hard to sit through. Felt like the lower bowl was all Boston fans, the arena was a morgue. The sabres literally put my wife to sleep.

[Neo]

I alluded last night ...  I don’t think they were out “gritted”.  They went toe to toe with Boston, but didn’t finish.  Now, this is a problem and not just bad luck.  They aren’t scoring goals.   If/when Eichel’s shooting percentage revert’s to his career level, well, uh oh.  Sheary, Okposo, Girgensons ....  I just don’t lean forward when the puck’s on their sticks.

All that said, I want that effort much more regularly.  Imagine if we’d hit on Nylander and Mitts.  This team is better, but it’s stuck.

[PASabreFan]

19 minutes ago, Neo said:

I alluded last night ...  I don’t think they were out “gritted”.  They went toe to toe with Boston, but didn’t finish.  Now, this is a problem and not just bad luck.  They aren’t scoring goals.   If/when Eichel’s shooting percentage revert’s to his career level, well, uh oh.  Sheary, Okposo, Girgensons ....  I just don’t lean forward when the puck’s on their sticks.

All that said, I want that effort much more regularly.  Imagine if we’d hit on Nylander and Mitts.  This team is better, but it’s stuck.

And now with Skinner lost, hoo boy! As Lance "Scandy" Lysowski wrote in today's paper: "The absence of a 40-goal scorer could have a significant impact on an offense that has scored only five goals in its past four games." Seriously, what will the Sabres do without Skinner?

[PASabreFan]

10 hours ago, Zamboni said:

So some fans want to fire JB now. Like right this very moment ...

Instead of spewing your wishes of just half of the move, complete your thought of who exactly will replace him. I bet half the “fire JB” crowd all of a sudden, fall silent and don’t have a logical answer.

And a strawman answer like ... “replace JB with anyone” is a weak one IMO.

So what does that say?

Terrible. The average hockey fan is not expected to know who the hockey president candidates are.

9 hours ago, Tondas said:

Good point.  All I can think of are:

Randy Sexton - Some continuity and may be better than JBOT.

Mark Hunter - Lost power struggle with Dubas in TO.

Rick Dudley - Because he's Rick frickin' Dudley (and has lots of FO experience).

And of course that's all you know. It's not an argument for not having a hockey president.

"You don't know what you don't know."

[LGR4GM]

I was thinking last night, which players do I want on this team July 1, 2020. The list is short. 

[Broken Ankles]

35 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I was thinking last night, which players do I want on this team July 1, 2020. The list is short. 

I was thinking about this the other day looking a CapFriendly and our UFA/RFA’s.  Victor is the only must sign in July.  Montour and Reinhart have fallen off the map for me.  Larsson/Grigs - nice to have but would not miss them.   E-rod, nice knowin’ ya.  Sheary and Vesey, low cost experiments.  Next.  If they can move Jake or Miller I could live with Marco.   
 

 

[Zamboni]

1 hour ago, PASabreFan said:

Terrible. The average hockey fan is not expected to know who the hockey president candidates are.

And of course that's all you know. It's not an argument for not having a hockey president.

"You don't know what you don't know."

Huh? not talking hockey presidents. I specifically said JB.  I know that posters on here and other forums are not “casual average” hockey fans. I give posters on most forums, more credit than that. And yes, most posters should know an answer to the potential replacements for JB, IF they want him fired right now, today. Spewing hatred for the man (firing) without listing his replacement is a rather weak argument that holds no water. At all. It’s just spouting to spout without a logical well thought out answer. It just rings hollow. 
 

List his replacement! 

[PASabreFan]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

Huh? not talking hockey presidents. I specifically said JB.  I know that posters on here and other forums are not “casual average” hockey fans. I give posters on most forums, more credit than that. And yes, most posters should know an answer to the potential replacements for JB, IF they want him fired right now, today. Spewing hatred for the man (firing) without listing his replacement is a rather weak argument that holds no water. At all. It’s just spouting to spout without a logical well thought out answer. It just rings hollow. 
 

List his replacement! 

OK, my bad. The point is the same. If I want Botterill fired, I am under no obligation to name his replacement. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Unless we're back to the idiotic defense of Lindy Ruff — there's no one out there who's better!

[Beer]

It looks like I picked a good game to miss.  The Sabres are not in a good place.  They need a hockey czar to come in and make the necessary changes.  Lack of experience in the front office is being exposed on the ice. 

[PASabreFan]

5 minutes ago, Beer said:

It looks like I picked a good game to miss.  The Sabres are not in a good place.  They need a hockey czar to come in and make the necessary changes.  Lack of experience in the front office is being exposed on the ice. 

That's becoming pretty obvious. Botterill has a history of being taken in trades and a history of sitting on his hands. He even said recently that as a "young GM" he has to figure out what fellow GMs trust. This franchise can no longer afford to wait for on the job training to kick in. Jason would probably be fine in the cap guru role like he did in Pittsburgh — although look at the Sabres' situation.

[Derrico]

Back to single digit GDT.  How many years do we have to continue having a ***** team?

[Pimlach]

This was about the same week last season that I had doubts about the team.  

I hung tough until February.  Not sure I can do that again. They need to win 3 in a row to get things going again.    No Skinner.  No second line.  No #2 goalie. Jack pointless for 2  straight games, both shutouts to division teams.  Some other players need to step up. 
 

PS -  I have been watching the Blues more lateky since they are the home team.  Vince Dunn, Rob Thomas, and Jordan Kryou are developing nicely.  It makes me so mad that we tanked and blew up everything, even the pipeline.   

Edited December 28, 2019 by Pimlach

[Zamboni]

2 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

OK, my bad. The point is the same. If I want Botterill fired, I am under no obligation to name his replacement. One thing has nothing to do with the other. Unless we're back to the idiotic defense of Lindy Ruff — there's no one out there who's better!

Of course you’re not obligated. And I’m not obligated to take the requests for JB getting fired seriously since it hasn’t been thought through past the “but but but I just want him fired” phase. And no, he certainly isn’t Irreplaceable. It just rings hollow. Yelling at clouds.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Of course you’re not obligated. And I’m not obligated to take the requests for JB getting fired seriously since it hasn’t been thought through past the “but but but I just want him fired” phase. And no, he certainly isn’t Irreplaceable. It just rings hollow. Yelling at clouds.

It’s not really a “but but but” situation when there are a myriad of legitimate reasons people are stating for why Botterill is failing. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Thorny

[Zamboni]

4 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It’s not really a “but but but” situation when there are a myriad of legitimate reasons people are stating for why Botterill is failing. 

Again, it’s not at all about whether he’s “failing”. It’s about if you want him fired, fine. Want him fired... Cool. 
Who would you like in his place that has a good chance to do better? Dont get me wrong, that’s not saying he’s the end all be all GM. I just think if he gets fired, a logical legitimate some semblance of a thought should be proposed as to what comes after said firing. Who gets hired? And not just spewing “fire fire fire” like a bevis and butthead cartoon. Have a plan for godsake. I don’t view that as a crazy off the wall way to think. Firing without a list of potential replacements, is. It just rings hollow. Shortsighted.

 

[Thorny]

It is a mark of how poorly perceived the work of said GM is when numerous intelligent individuals want him gone even without thought to who the replacement might be. 

It’s saying something. That’s the point. The BOARD CONSENSUS would have built a better roster. 

[Gatorman0519]

1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

This was about the same week last season that I had doubts about the team.  

I hung tough until February.  Not sure I can do that again. They need to win 3 in a row to get things going again.    No Skinner.  No second line.  No #2 goalie. Jack pointless for 2  straight games, both shutouts to division teams.  Some other players need to step up. 
 

PS -  I have been watching the Blues more lateky since they are the home team.  Vince Dunn, Rob Thomas, and Jordan Kryou are developing nicely.  It makes me so mad that we tanked and blew up everything, even the pipeline.   

Yup and guys like Joe Armia and JT Compher would be an Improvment. 

[Scottysabres]

8 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It is a mark of how poorly perceived the work of said GM is when numerous intelligent individuals want him gone even without thought to who the replacement might be. 

It’s saying something. That’s the point. The BOARD CONSENSUS would have built a better roster. 

Which leads me to this question.

Why would Botterill re-sign a majority of last seasons roster or not trade a couple pieces of those already signed in an effort to change the coming seasons (this season) end result?

Is there a larger plan here in play? For the following season? I don't believe that for a second. I think Botterill was hoping on the coaching change, combined with the couple of additions made in the past 12 months would push the team to at least playoff contention this season.

That has completely failed imo. If that was his intention, which I believe it was.

[Thorny]

35 minutes ago, Scottysabres said:

Which leads me to this question.

Why would Botterill re-sign a majority of last seasons roster or not trade a couple pieces of those already signed in an effort to change the coming seasons (this season) end result?

Is there a larger plan here in play? For the following season? I don't believe that for a second. I think Botterill was hoping on the coaching change, combined with the couple of additions made in the past 12 months would push the team to at least playoff contention this season.

That has completely failed imo. If that was his intention, which I believe it was.

It’s a combination of poor talent evaluation, mediocre cap management, an inability to correctly identify and then address the team’s issues, failure to make in-season moves/properly address the D surplus (really backed himself into a corner on that one), and what I believe to be a long rope and plenty of leeway from ownership to take his sweet time. 

There are positives. But just so many glaring errors along the way. Playing a D man in Bogosian who actively tanks our chances of winning, while better D men get scratched and a 30 year old by now and ready for the NHL d man in Pilut sits in Rochester, while we dress 7 D every night and play one at forward (like, really?!) because he can’t free up the D log jam he created. The goalie he brought in has lost his last double digit starts. His first forward taken showing no development in 2.5 years and now stinking it up in Rochester. Hey let’s bridge Reinhart then pad his stats with Eichel in a contract year, after padding Skinner’s the same way then moving him to a spot he gets little production after already being paid a huge amount. 

Low ceiling d-men selected with our late first and second round picks when plenty of high talent forwards are available, a massive area of need. The ROR trade is a freebie, but how about just the fact he hasn’t addressed that position on the ice since moving him, including stunting Casey’s development in the process. 

- - - 

We are sitting 13th in the East in his 3rd full season and that’s AFTER Jack shot his shot with a ridiculous individual run. Botterill seems methodical enough that we may eventually, way down the line achieve the competitiveness we seek, but I truly struggle with how much of Eichel’s true prime years will be left by the time we get there. 

Edited December 28, 2019 by Thorny