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LGR4GM

Jack Eichel: Eliteness

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There was talk recently that Jack was not an elite player and that most teams have 2 or even 3 Eichel level guys on their team. For this purpose Elite is top 20 in the game. I went with top 20 because not every team has 1 and a couple teams have 2 of these players. They produce at high levels and have game breaking ability. 

 

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1 minute ago, LGR4GM said:

There was talk recently that Jack was not an elite player and that most teams have 2 or even 3 Eichel level guys on their team. For this purpose Elite is top 20 in the game. I went with top 20 because not every team has 1 and a couple teams have 2 of these players. They produce at high levels and have game breaking ability. 

 

He won't be elite in my eyes until he learns to play both ends of the ice.  Yes he is a great offensive talent. Elite means you excel in all parts of the game!!

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3 minutes ago, sweetlou said:

He won't be elite in my eyes until he learns to play both ends of the ice.  Yes he is a great offensive talent. Elite means you excel in all parts of the game!!

I guess Mike Bossy was not elite.

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It depends on what lens you look through.  If people want a two-way player and/or a more gritty type player, then no....Jack will never be elite.   IMHO, he is an elite TALENT, meaning he can take over a game (when he wants go) with his gifts.  Would I like to see him have a more constant motor....sure, but only elite players have the ability to take matters into their own hands to change a game....and he is legit.

If Jack had more tools to work with and/or another scoring line to take the pressure off him, he'd already have 100+ seasons already and this would not be a question.

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He's a remarkable talent.

Sometimes I wonder about his hockey IQ ... in certain situations.

I stopped keeping track, but I do wonder: How's his line faring against the line(s) that they're matched up against? Are they getting better than they give in terms of chances, etc.?

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He is an elite talent.  His talent makes up for his hockey IQ at times, but he still appears to be learning the game.  His attitude was always what has been holding him back though, and he's maturing.  That's going a long way.  Oh, and his wingers.  He needs Skinner back.

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I couldn't watch the game yesterday and didn't watch it "live on tape" (it's not a skill I've acquired, mostly because I almost never miss a game live). Anywho, I skipped through the goals. It was startling, honestly, what suddenly appeared on my screen on those first two. Eichel was almost other-worldly... what he was doing, how he was commanding the moment, it was almost dream-like. He was an alien hockey player superimposed, briefly, on a landscape of mere human opponents.

It was something. Let's see it a lot more (I'm not asking for that kind of performance period to period), and I'll start thinking about the e-word.

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I dont think he is elite yet. I stress yet. He is clearly above everyone else on the team. I think in 1 more year and he might become elite

Obviously if he continues on the pace of 100+ points he could be considered elite, but I think he is still a bit inconsistent. I also think he has a bit of an attitude issue. I can't put my finger on it though

Edited by miles

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Elite level talent, but he hasn’t shown the ability to sustain elite level performance.

I suspect the difference is between his ears.

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18 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

what he was doing, how he was commanding the moment, it was almost dream-like.

Actually, Jack at his best takes me back to the 1970s when the stars could actually skate.  He makes his own room.

 

I'll also say that there are moments during a game, and you recognize them I'm sure, when he makes a decision to go for it, and it doesn't matter that opposing defenders are in position, he just sweeps right around them and then gets a surprisingly dangerous shot from down low with almost no net to hit.  And he hits it anyway.  The four goal game was full of those moments.  There was a play where he tried it yesterday, fumbled the puck a bit in his skates and still got a pretty decent pass over to (I think) Olofsson in the slot.

I think he gets frustrated when he can't do that, and his line suffers for it.  Then you see him trying to take it in 1-on-4 on a powerplay and get stripped of the puck.  Sometimes the brilliant rush isn't there and when Jack goes too long without it, he loses effectiveness.  This is why he's stapled to Reino; the two of them have enough chemistry/history that he knows he can count on Samson to do the smart thing on a rush and down low.

Edited by Doohickie

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Jack won’t get that credit until his team is relevant, no matter how much his play so far this season his play warrants it.

I certainly can’t think of 20 players I’d rather have.

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7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Jack won’t get that credit until his team is relevant, no matter how much his play so far this season his play warrants it.

I certainly can’t think of 20 players I’d rather have.

Agreed! I actually think he's closer to Top 10 in the world forwards. I firmly believe on a better team, having more support, he would be much more productive.

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He reminds me a bit of a young Stamkos... no much on D... but talented beyond everyone... still something was lacking motivationally at times.

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57 minutes ago, apuszczalowski said:

Gretzky was always known for his defence........

Rick Martin was a great penalty killer back in the day

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Elite talent yes...Elite player..not quite yet.   I want to see him finish in the top 5 in the league in scoring at least once...and the top 10 in the league in scoring for a couple years in a row first.

You finish in the top 20 in the league in scoring you are a star, but not 'elite'.  Elite status is reserved for the extreme upper echelon.....top 5-10 players in the league at most.

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He absolutely is an elite talent and in many, if not most games, he's the most talented player on the ice.

I question his mental toughness, not his abilities.  Does he make his teammates better (besides feeding them sick passes)?  Does he refuse to lose?  Does he always turn up the level of compete?  I don't think so.

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Yes.

And a 100 point season would prove it. Even something in the 90s, really. If he stays top 10 in scoring and we make the playoffs, he'll be in the Hart conversation

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I think Jack’s a very good hockey player.  Among the best.
 

Is Brad Marchand elite?

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7 hours ago, Neo said:

I think Jack’s a very good hockey player.  Among the best.
 

Is Brad Marchand elite?

I'd definitely say so. I believe over an extended (5 years) period of time, he's top 5 in the NHL in points, and is an effective defensive player (not so much the last year and a half, but overall) and incredible on the penalty kill, a part of stifling units, and with the most shorthanded goals/points of anyone in the league in that span. 

Edited by Randall Flagg
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Eichel is an elite offensive talent. If you are within the top 2% of something in you entire field, which he is among NHL forwards with at least 5 games played this year, you are elite. If you take a few years together, that percentage shrinks. Elite offensive production given the fact that he's the ONLY danger that other teams need to focus on, and given his surroundings compared to those of the players around him in that ranking. I love Reinhart - not as much as I love one of Kucherov/Point/Stamkos, one of Crosby/Malkin/Guentzel, one of McDavid/Draisaitl, one of Kane/Toews/Debrincat, one of Matthews/Marner/Nylander/Tavares, etc. 

Eichel is obviously NOT good defensively. He just doesn't know where to go when, or what to do when he gets there. He is not worse than prime, in the middle of cup winning, Patrick Kane in the defensive zone, who was almost exactly as effective offensively as Jack relative to his peers at the time. Kane benefited from the Hawks being more than competent around him, where Eichel lost his Toews, and doesn't have a Hossa, Keith, Seabrook, Crawford etc. 

I'm comfortable using the elite word on Jack. I've seen a player with this offensive talent be the best player on a cup team. But the rest of the team is sorely lacking, and he's not of the superstar tier that can hide that stuff even a little bit. Which is what you'd want from tanking. But it's not Jack's fault we tanked for him.

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I think he may have Elite potential, but is most likely more of a next tier player. He has had games where he shows he can be elite, and then goes on stretches where he seems to be just another player out there.

 

The problem with this topic is what is the definition of Elite?

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If the bar for elite is one of the top-20 forwards in the league, then yes, Eichel is elite.

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