GDT 11/25 Sabres @ Lightning 7pm et. Msg-b

[Randall Flagg]

This team took its first meaningful gash out of me on July 1st, 2018. I believed so little in their direction, or talent identification abilities, that I lost something that day, which hasn't been regained since. Hitting the ice this October with this roster made it worse. Tonight was another big leap.

I've spent less time on anything hockey related, be it our Sabres, watching other NHL teams, or just playing in the driveway, than any other span since fifth grade when the lockout ended and I got my first taste. 

I've taken that time and put it into another sport, that captured my attention a hair earlier than hockey, but didn't do a good job of holding it, because of the Bills' incompetence. 

The teams' roles are decidedly reversed from the positions they were in for most of my fanhood, and it's actually been that way for a few years now.

This isn't crowning the Bills - I've seen two successful Sabres seasons in my life, the first two. Since then has been a whole lot of nothing.

But man, that game is beautiful too, and there's a LOT more that goes into it tactically, making it fascinating, all while being completely accessible if you put in the work. I'm enjoying this slow learning process immensely. 

It helps that every inch of their organization is on the same page, and that the book it's in makes sense to me. Every step of the way, this regime in Orchard Park has told me exactly what is coming, and the results have been slightly better than expected. I expected 7 wins their first year, got 9 and a surprise drought end. I understood the dead money situation the following year, why it was happening, because they straight up told me. I accepted it on the condition that things wouldn't be derailed and that immediate steps would be taken in the right direction upon its conclusion, with appropriate player development and continued drafting success. I expected about 3 wins, and got 6 - in fact, the Bills  STILL wound up drafting in a lower slot than any Sabre team has since 2012, despite their situation. Impressive as hell, to be honest. And this season I wanted 7-9 wins with development from all the important players. We got to the median of that spread before we played our last November game. Their QB, who looked far different in December 2018 than September 2018, again looks far different as we approach December 2019. There are plenty flaws and a long way to go - and yet, who would have seen coming the best passer rating in the NFL in both the fourth quarter, and on any pass between 10-20 yards down the field, coupled with as many passing TDs as brady (with 6 more rushing ones), the 3rd most total TDs in the AFC, a 14-1 total TD/INT split since New England, and the best conversion rate of 3rd and 8+ yards in the NFL on pass attempts? Not me, I hated this kid going into the draft. I'm seeing what they promised me, and I'm seeing it sooner than I would have allowed for. I'm seeing it in Tremaine, in Tredavious. I'm seeing it in 5th round STUD Matt Milano. Undrafted Levi Wallace. Late rounders Siran Neal and Taron Johnson, controlling the slot, blowing up screens. Guys added late in drafts or after the draft, contributing immediately, growing obviously. UFA additions like Hyde, Poyer, John Brown, Andre Roberts, Feliciano, all doing their parts, big and small. A swiftly rebuilt line (identifying and attacking an area of need, all in one offseason) getting better by the week, putting out a STUNNING performance this Sunday against a no nonsense Denver DL. A firmly established culture doing it's job, so that we are a model of a franchise when compared to most of our opponents week in and week out, even if those opponents are capable of out-talenting us RIGHT NOW. I can see this playing out in real time, and I can see how quickly it has the potential to create something great. 90 mil in cap space this offseason, and a draft loaded in our roster hole positions. Cap guru? I'll show you a cap guru. 

I would encourage people frustrated with the Sabres, long-past following the Bills, to give the Bills another chance. They're not ready to go win road playoff games yet (they'd have a chance if they get in this year) and they might not get in this year. But they're a franchise that doesn't frustrate the ever-loving-***** out of you, and they tell you what they're doing and why they're doing it, and anyone who is honest with themselves and watches other teams can see why they're choosing to do it this way. I've felt sports feelings that I've not felt in a long time with this Bills team. They're great guys, and fun to watch learn in real time. I was at the Denver game, and spent the whole time bathing in nostalgia and reflection. The weather was so similar to my first games as a youngster, brimming with misplaced hope and optimism, not understanding how bad our roster and management was. I wish I could go back in time and show that kid what this 8-3 victory felt like in attendance, while thinking of him. Then I realized how stupid that is, when I could just BE that kid again. Who knows if McBeane work out, and they certainly have a lot of work to do on themselves (offensive talent evaluation, game clock management, cough cough), but if you are pining for a team with a direction, a plan, and with a scrappy attitude that consistently brings more wins than expected (and 43 passing TDs allowed in 43 games? um holy ***** Sean you absolute freak) there's one that would love your support this Thursday. 

The Sabres? This team is lost. They don't deserve the effort, attention, care, and time we've all put in. They don't couple their flaws to brilliant talent evaluation in any one spot, or infectious attitude, relentless effort. They cobble together a squad of poor saps who could individually be a part of any great team, but who together don't make any sense and never did to anyone being honest with themselves. They combine the most obvious and boring cliches and mottos with a tendency to avoid following them in practice, preaching change and giving us the same Risto treatment we saw 5 years ago, the same scoring issues we've lamented since the end of the tank, the same fake-accountability for some players and not others, the same inability to develop any player other than what little development the player can scrape together on their own. Whatever you think the importance of grit, or talent - it doesn't matter because we ALL agree that the team has neither in any meaningful quantity. They compound a crippling, talent-gutting mistake with an unfair, development-stunting mistake, and then go a year and a half without touching the situation after that. They have let some of the most toxic roster-construction-driven situations I've ever seen a hockey team have, between last year's collapse, the previous year's entirety, and whatever this is, go without doing anything more than trading for Scott Wilson, and then for a defenseman that they're using as a 4RW for 10 minutes per night after a few injuries, only one of which was to a remotely important player in Johansson. It is sickening. Imagine staring at a growing hole in your tooth, a festering cavity, and deciding that you'll go see the chiropractor about it sometime next July, or maybe August, or maybe you'll just hit October and see what it looks like then. We've purged ONE player from this organization who was skating in games while we won just one of about 23 games in March! ONE! They're all still here! Nobody lets rot continue to rot like Jason Botterill. His finger is on the pulse of this team - he just doens't care that it spent a year dead, then came alive, and then died sometime around January 2019 for good. There's no way he doesn't see that stuff. He was just okay with his creation.

All of this, all of Jason's bizarre obsession with getting Krueger here, glowing as if it was all we've needed this whole time, all of the "roster surgery" BS, the garbage depth forwards, the way too many defensemen and not utilizing them at all to do what we've wanted to see done to Risto's minutes just to help the poor guy out anyway, all of the tanking and losing and high picks who are actually good players but can't hope to save this thing, all of this combines to give us.... what amounts to another Lucic moment. Thanks Sabres. From top to bottom, you are a ***** joke. You are a sick, flailing, shadow of an NHL franchise, of the franchise you used to be.

I feel zero ill will towards any of these players. Even my whipping boy Sobotka. I feel sorry for all of them. None of them asked for this, and none of them could come within a million miles of being able to change it on their own. Yes, not even captain Jack. It's that bad. It was always going to be that bad, too, with the roster decisions that have been made in the last three years. Jason doesn't know what a good forward is. He just doesn't. If Skinner doesn't have that fluke NTC request, where the ***** are we? Picture that. Because he got lucky, and would have been okay with his decisions had that not happened.

And Pegula, the man who started off justifying the hire with the fact that Jason won a WJC as a player, has no idea what a good GM is, and I'm not sure he wants to, given the consecutive rookie hires with nobody in between them and him. Cody Hodgson won a WJC gold too. Is he up next? 

Where is the fix for what ails this team coming from, and when? Nobody can give a serious answer to that. They can only guess. And while maybe a year and a half ago the guesses were flowing readily in response to "negative nancies" with "bad attitudes", guesses emphatic in their belief in the team they love, these guesses are now far less forgiving, far less convinced, far less optimistic, as each day goes by. 

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Huckleberry]

After 1st period I went to bed, was to tired.   But waking up to this I didn't expect.   I don't care if half your team gets hit in the face.   Tampa has been taking liberties and it should have been a bench clearing brawl after that hit.

[Billssabres33]

6 hours ago, Zamboni said:

 

APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE,   APPLAUSE,  APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE..my favorite part is when he said, “...and we’re going to the playoffs”...APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE, APPLAUSE

[North Buffalo]

Man Sabres need a Schoenfeld and Korab back on D and a Razor at forward

[Neo]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

I think that was Gaustad who “avenged” Miller with Lucic, even though he and Myers were in the ice for the original hit  

Stafford was a rookie and he went after Neil immediately after the hit on Drury.  Then all hell broke loose.  

Stafford’s finest moment.  Not so much for Gaustad, who appeared to be serving penance lining up for the face off during his first post incident shift with Lucic.  Lucic obliged him without histrionics or passion.  Both men held their own, obligations fulfilled.  It was the TV dinner version of justice or retribution, an unremarkable Kabuki dance pulled from the freezer and warmed up.

[LGR4GM]

"Now welcome to the ice, yoooouurrrrr 2019 Gutless Wonders!" I refuse to call them by their team name because they haven't earned it. 

 

[Carmel Corn]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

"Now welcome to the ice, yoooouurrrrr 2019 Gutless Wonders!" I refuse to call them by their team name because they haven't earned it. 

 

Maybe their real name should be the Buffalo Beauts.....but then again, the real Beauts might take offense and then beat the crap out of the boys.

[eman]

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

Man Sabres need a Schoenfeld and Korab back on D and a Razor at forward

Schony was one of my favorites and a huge reason I became a Sabres fan. Busted his ass every night for this franchise. Korab was a beauty also, Guevremont included. Ahhh, the great old days......

 

[eman]

9 hours ago, darksabre said:

I don't know if I can put into words how mad I am right now. By the chin scar of Mike Peca I am furious with this team. 

I also miss the open ice hits Peca used to lay out. Not a big man but you had to be aware when he was out there. Delivered some beauts in his day.

[eman]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

It funny.  They are short-handed with injuries.  They already have a talent disadvantage at forward and most games in the net.  

They play a good game in Boston.  They beat a better Florida team on the road.  Tonight night they are hanging in there with Tampa, outplaying them in the second.   Then the cheap hit happens and no call.  

Prior to the start of the 3rd period every player and coach know Dahlin is seriously hurt.  I get they are running out of legs but they roll over in the 3rd. Poor special teams.  No body checks.  No energy.  Their goalie starts acting like a jerk.

They got bounced around right up to the final horn.   

All the signs of a team quitting were on display after Dahlin’s hit.   

No heart, no character. I know others have already stated this and it is the absolute truth. Those things matter in this league and this team will continue to spin its wheels until it finds this.

[triumph_communes]

Getting sick of Tampa getting away with murder game after game.  In a fair world, Kucherov would still be suspended for as long as Sobotka is out, and Cernak would've been ejected in preparation for his long hiatus.

 

But no, refs gonna ref.

 

Special teams is a PROBLEM.  They feel good that they are passing around, but don't recognize they aren't ever being dangerous.  Same kinds of issues they have on 5v5 for stretches.

 

But this game felt more like a goalie problem.  Vasi made nearly every breakaway save.  Hutton let them all in.  Sucks, goalie problems are very difficult to fix, especially when you're up to the cap.

Edited November 26, 2019 by triumph_communes

[Scottysabres]

2 shorthanded goals against, yikes did that PP really fall off the cliff since the start of the season.

Botterill has to address this. It just cannot be allowed to continue.

[PASabreFan]

It's funny how so many are pining for the good old, bad old days. That hit on Dahlin was standard fare for generations. Hey, pretty boy Swede, you think you're gonna prance to the net after laying off a pass? Think again. Talk to my elbow. I'm glad that garbage is largely out of the game. Why anyone would want to go back to it, I don't know.

[LGR4GM]

13 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's funny how so many are pining for the good old, bad old days. That hit on Dahlin was standard fare for generations. Hey, pretty boy Swede, you think you're gonna prance to the net after laying off a pass? Think again. Talk to my elbow. I'm glad that garbage is largely out of the game. Why anyone would want to go back to it, I don't know.

I don't. I want the league and the refs to enforce the rules but since they did not, the team should have responded in some way as opposed to twiddling their thumbs. 

[Torpedo Forecheck]

19 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

It's funny how so many are pining for the good old, bad old days. That hit on Dahlin was standard fare for generations. Hey, pretty boy Swede, you think you're gonna prance to the net after laying off a pass? Think again. Talk to my elbow. I'm glad that garbage is largely out of the game. Why anyone would want to go back to it, I don't know.

No one is pining for a team full of goons. The pendulum has swung too far the other way, with the Sabres at least. You should have a couple physical tough guys on the third and fourth lines, and a guy or 2 on defense who can answer the bell when needed. You don't sound like someone who's played much hockey. I will just say this, there is a breed of player who will take cheapshots in moments where they can get away with it. And, when a team gets a reputation for being soft, these guys come out of the woodwork. The great Montreal Canadiens teams used to routinely have the fewest penalty minutes in the league, but routinely taking shots at their skill stars wasn't tolerated. They were as tough as anybody in the league when needed.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Torpedo Forecheck

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

No one is pining for a team full of goons. The pendulum has swung too far the other way, with the Sabres at least. You should have a couple physical tough guys on the third and fourth lines, and a guy or 2 on defense who can answer the bell when needed. You don't sound like someone who's played much hockey. I will just say this, there is a breed of player who will take cheapshots in moments where they can get away with it. And, when a team gets a reputation for being soft, these guys come out of the woodwork. The great Montreal Canadiens teams used to routinely have the fewest penalty minutes in the league, but routinely taking shots at their skill stars wasn't tolerated. They were as tough as anybody in the league when needed.

Here's the thing, if this team starts adding lower level players that will rough it up they are missing the point. 

Edited November 26, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Doohickie]

11 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Not a puck battle?

No.  Mittelstadt hadn't gotten to the puck yet and was pitchforked down, while another Lightning player recovered the puck.  It never got to the point of being a puck battle because of the interference.

That was one of the most one-sided officiating jobs I've seen in a long time.  Not calling the elbow against Dahlin was just the tip of the iceberg.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Doohickie

[Torpedo Forecheck]

9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Here's the thing, if this team starts adding lower level players that will rough it up they are missing the point. 

What's the point they are missing? Why not replace some of the lower level guys with guys like NYI,Boston and other teams that don't take allow liberties to be taken? Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Matt Martin, Kuraly, Wagner and get rid of guys like Rodriguez ,Larsson, Okposo, Miller etc. Get some lower level grinders with attitude. You need options of all types on your team, not a bunch of similar players.

Edited November 26, 2019 by Torpedo Forecheck

[Carmel Corn]

15 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I don't. I want the league and the refs to enforce the rules but since they did not, the team should have responded in some way as opposed to twiddling their thumbs. 

Yes the team should have responded.  The question I have is, "IF" there were any players willing to do so (debatable for sure), were they TOLD not to by RK or not?  At that point, it was still a one-goal game....and given RK's lack of public emotion, I would not be surprised if he tried to keep their focus on the game vs. retaliating for Dahlin.  I don't know...but I am wondering if he put the clamps on any payback....or is it just what we first thought....a bunch of spineless wimps?

[Gatorman0519]

This team is literally going nowhere.  And for 20 years we’ve made the playoffs 4 times.  You have to work extra hard to be this inept! 

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

What's the point they are missing? Why not replace some of the lower level guys with guys like NYI,Boston and other teams that don't take allow liberties to be taken? Cizikas, Clutterbuck, Matt Martin, Kuraly, Wagner and get rid of guys like Rodriguez ,Larsson, Okposo, Miller etc. Get some lower level grinders with attitude. You need options of all types on your team, not a bunch of similar players.

First, you can't get rid of Okposo. Second, Miller plays defense. 

I am fine with ditching Erod, Zemgus, Larsson and adding grittier players but what I mean by my comment is that this team doesn't react because they aren't a team. They are a bunch of individuals who happen to play hockey together. You can add some of those guys you mention but this stuff will still go on. 

It needs to be a team mentality to not allow it is my point. 

[triumph_communes]

This conversation is why I want Reinhart traded ?We can use a different type of player with his cap-hit/value.

 

Cozens is a big body talent, he will be helpful as he grows up.  Kane was a hot-head and didn't help himself at all.  All our other forwards have been small or play small.  Girgensons and Larsson aren't big hitters.

[...]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

First, you can't get rid of Okposo. Second, Miller plays defense. 

I am fine with ditching Erod, Zemgus, Larsson and adding grittier players but what I mean by my comment is that this team doesn't react because they aren't a team. They are a bunch of individuals who happen to play hockey together. You can add some of those guys you mention but this stuff will still go on. 

It needs to be a team mentality to not allow it is my point. 

I think this is true. There's an added dimension, though: saying we have soft players doesn't automatically equate that we need goons. That's a ridiculous leap the kind of which Paul Ham-fat-sandwich makes all of the time in his open loathing of the fans.  PA does it a few posts up and it is both unacceptable in the unfolding of the discourse and intellectually lazy.

We don't have to accept that straw man.  There are players out there who have skill and who are also bad-muthas. We don't need a roster full of them, we need them sprinkled tactically throughout the roster.  And then we need a coach who understands not only how to assemble lines with these guys, but who also has their backs in the press and to the league.

We need a GM who can recognize a soft player and avoids them unless their skill outweighs their softness.

We need players who understand and respect the fact that on a team like the Sabres, it's not the individuals the fans root for, it's the crest. The players are the stewards of the crest while they are here. If and when they do well defending and playing for the crest, for the city and for the fans, then their individuality gets recognized.

 

Edited November 26, 2019 by ...
my binary was missing two bytes. whatever

[dudacek]

That game epitomized why it hurts to be a Sabre fan.

Jason Botterill owns this.

[Getpucksdeep]

11 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Totally disagree. Eichel is one of the few leaders they have.   He dropped the gloves last week to wake this team up, no one responded.  

Eichel holds up his end of the “talent thing”.  The others appear to be lacking in “accountability and stuff”.  

I want to join this line of thinking, I really do.  And I do think he's trying, but I don't think he is/was a born leader.  He's elite talent and big ego, and work ethic, and wants to be the guy, but again that doesn't make him a leader.  Drop the gloves, or throw a big hit, or get emotional on the bench in support of your teammates. Instead it's the woe-is-me body language back to the bench.  And re: accountability - it's the turnovers (5th goal last night) and lazy back checks (improving there) I'm talking about.  re: stuff - it's relationships with his teammates, building bonds.  Of course I don't know if they are there or not, but based on the product on the ice I'm guessing not.