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Kruppstahl

Dreger on Botterill: "Open to Just About Anything"

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2 hours ago, mjd1001 said:

Here is the issue I keep coming back to...and it seems a lot of people on this forum have stopped talking about...

What has to be done to this team to make it a legit top 5 or 6 team in the league...a team that year in and year out is at least an outside threat to make it to the finals?

I really don't see the answer. You have you generational player already in Dahlin. You have your semi-generational forward in Eichel. You have your other 2nd overall pick in Reinhart.  You are arguably already entering into the prime playing years for Eichel and Reinhart.

You are NOT stocked with NHL ready talent in the AHL, and don't seem to have any superstars-in-waiting showing up anytime soon. You have cap relief coming next year, but you are at the cap already right now.

I want a trade (or two or three) like everyone else...but that won't 'fix' this team and turn it into a top contender.

Most of us thought the end result of the tank, especially after getting Dahlin on top of it...would be a team that would be a top team in the NHL. Unless they turn this season around, we are looking at 9 straight years of no playoffs, and 13  seasons since a single playoff series win.  What needs to be done so this team can be a legit cup contender?  I don't even have a clue anymore.

I think a part of the frustration we all feel is that we rely on these labels that I highlighted in your post to justify heightened expectations of success.

The reality is that Dahlin is still a child growing into his body, and he has a LOT of rough nights.  Does he have a gigantic ceiling in front of him?  Some said he can be another Lidstrom.  He may well be, some day, but he ain't no Lidstrom NOW.  

Eichel is not a semi-generational talent.  He's a super good hockey player.  Every team in the league has an Eichel, for the most part.  Some have 2 of 3 of him.

Yes, Reinhart was the first forward taken overall in his draft class and yes that should make him one hell of an amazing talent, but he isn't.  He's a very good hockey player and a nice supporting piece, but he is absolutely NOT a franchise builder.  I think of Ryan Nugent Hopkins when I think of Reinhart.  RNH was a #1 overall pick!  But he ain't no superstar. Hockey can be weird like that.  Not everyone taken at the top of the draft is an automatic franchise defining impact player.

So don't get caught up in labels.  Having said all of this, we have much bigger problems than the 3 names I just mentioned, who are not problems at all. 

We have absolutely NO 2nd and 3rd scoring line talent. We have zero physicality or toughness.  Our D has improved but is generally just OK.  

Several key up and comers are showing they probably aren't going to be as great as hoped for. 

I think there's still hope for Mittelstadt, but it diminishes all the time.

We seem to have one of the worst atmospheres in the league.  We go through head coaches like Eddie Van Halen goes through cigarettes.  Our owner is clueless. I personally think Botterill is a terrible GM and not the answer.

But, if we are going to over-simplify things to help explain our lack of success despite the big draft picks, it would be GMTM's and Botterill's failure to build a strong supporting cast for the big names.

Oh, our goaltending is very average, too.  Almost forgot about that.

As I wrote last year, neither Hutton or Ullmark are long term solutions at the position.   Maybe UPL can develop into something special.  Not sure.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Weird, Robby Fabbri was traded and is a center so he's not open to anything. 

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16 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Have to wait and see but the scary part is the thought of trading top prospects and picks away. If he does that he pulls a Murray and it's the act of a desperate manager afraid to lose his job, and that will lead to longer term disaster. Have to wait and see. 

I totally get the LTIR problems mentioned and cap issues. Lots of teams trying to do similar things and using the LTIR as a cap (sort of) cheat thing and it makes moving bodies hard even if you want to.

We have 1 top prospect, maybe 2. 

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3 hours ago, MODO Hockey said:

So what your saying basicly is that Arizona is more talanted than Buffalo ? 

What do you want me to say more than Ralph has never won anytning else than some useless stuff in the alps, he doesnt know what it takes to win and it cant be more specific than that. 

What do you believe happends to a team that have a coach that has never won anything, coming off tanking seasons and complete bs, you honestly believe that these players will trust such person? i do not. Fortunatly were all different and thank god for that.

 

Still you've made a statement with no specific explanation. Other than you only recognize , it would seem, the NHL as the only hockey played. Talking points. Our world lives on talking points. Make a statement and it's fact.

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5 hours ago, Kruppstahl said:

I think a part of the frustration we all feel is that we rely on these labels that I highlighted in your post to justify heightened expectations of success.

The reality is that Dahlin is still a child growing into his body, and he has a LOT of rough nights.  Does he have a gigantic ceiling in front of him?  Some said he can be another Lidstrom.  He may well be, some day, but he ain't no Lidstrom NOW.  

Eichel is not a semi-generational talent.  He's a super good hockey player.  Every team in the league has an Eichel, for the most part.  Some have 2 of 3 of him.

Yes, Reinhart was the first forward taken overall in his draft class and yes that should make him one hell of an amazing talent, but he isn't.  He's a very good hockey player and a nice supporting piece, but he is absolutely NOT a franchise builder.  I think of Ryan Nugent Hopkins when I think of Reinhart.  RNH was a #1 overall pick!  But he ain't no superstar. Hockey can be weird like that.  Not everyone taken at the top of the draft is an automatic franchise defining impact player.

I don't disagree with most of what you said.

Eichel is not a problem. But I agree with you that he is a very good player and not a mega- superstar.  The issue is a lot of people still think/want to think he is that 1/2 step behind McDavid and SHOULD be a top 5 player in the league. He isn't to me. Reinhart same thing...he is a very good player, but probably not even a top 50 player in the league.  And it is still early for Dahlin. 

That goes back to the original issue though,  they 'tanked' and missed the playoffs for so long and didn't get the payoff everyone wanted.  You didn't get a Crosby and a Malkin...or an Ovechkin. You didn't get a Lemieux or a McDavid.  You have to work with what you do have...and right now it doesn't seem like the Sabres have much of a chance to get 'more' than what they have now.

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4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Weird, Robby Fabbri was traded and is a center so he's not open to anything. 

Fabbri is a winger and has been playing wing for Detroit.

Apart from that, he would have been a nice bounce back/change of scenery candidate to go after.

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5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Weird, Robby Fabbri was traded and is a center so he's not open to anything. 

Fabbri was a very nice looking player and has had a couple of big ACL injuries.  Detroit is taking a well calculated risk that he can get back to scoring goals.  

He could try to be  2C for us, between Skinner and  MoJo back to wing.   Then we need a legit finisher/winger to fit with Eichel.  

The Blues were looking for a forward prospect, which got from Detroit in return.  Buffalo would have no forward to spare of similar value and cost.  

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3 hours ago, Derrico said:

I would think UPL. 

Yes. I still think he will be a star. But that's the point, if he "likes our defensive depth"  then what is he offering in a trade? Has to be picks. Nobody's going to give us anything for the bottom end of our line up. I suppose the only other option would be splitting one into two in a multiplayer deal but I doubt that'd happen. 

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13 hours ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

It's times like this I'm glad I don't live in WNY anymore. It's going to a be a terrible December followed by a looooong winter when the Bills start regularly getting their butts kicked because they finally start playing some decent teams (and ultimately miss the playoffs IMO) and the Sabres end up doing nothing of consequence and settle in at the bottom of the league and everyone shrugs their shoulders and walks away.

Well, aren’t you a ray of sunshine.  

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I would hope Botterill is open to just about anything at this point. The season has plenty of games left to right the ship but bringing back most of the same roster was a terrible idea. He can still salvage it I suppose, if he can find partners willing to trade at reasonable rates.

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14 hours ago, Radar said:

Still you've made a statement with no specific explanation. Other than you only recognize , it would seem, the NHL as the only hockey played. Talking points. Our world lives on talking points. Make a statement and it's fact.

 

*

Edited by MODO Hockey

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So if Botts doesnt make any moves and Sabres finish in bottom 5... who should they target in the next draft?  A couple of scorers you would think.  And who are the free agents available next year once some cap space is available?

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4 minutes ago, North Buffalo said:

So if Botts doesnt make any moves and Sabres finish in bottom 5... who should they target in the next draft?  A couple of scorers you would think.  And who are the free agents available next year once some cap space is available?

If we finish in the bottom 5 Jbot will be fired and we’ll start again.  

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14 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If we finish in the bottom 5 Jbot will be fired and we’ll start again.  

Not again... given D talent and some key forwards... just that Sabres need 3 top 6 forward talent imo.  Cozens is 1, trade for one and if lucky draft another that can start right away or sign a FA.  Jack, Sam, Skinner, Cozens, Mojo, Traded for guy and FA.  Id be ok in this scenario if Sam was one the assets traded out... he is a follower not a driver...but would rather it just be a D.  

Edited by North Buffalo

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8 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Well, aren’t you a ray of sunshine.  

At this point, with both of these teams, rays of sunshine feel more like naive hope than anything else.  Believing that they will do the right things feels like believing in the Great Pumpkin.  Blind faith time is over, they need to start showing me.

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The Jets had two defenseman hurt last night.  Looks like Morrisey and Nathan Bowl-you are out. 

Looks like there is a strong need that Botterill can take advantage of.  

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On 11/23/2019 at 9:56 AM, Let's Go B-Lo said:

It's times like this I'm glad I don't live in WNY anymore. It's going to a be a terrible December followed by a looooong winter when the Bills start regularly getting their butts kicked because they finally start playing some decent teams (and ultimately miss the playoffs IMO) and the Sabres end up doing nothing of consequence and settle in at the bottom of the league and everyone shrugs their shoulders and walks away.

I don’t live in WNY anymore, I moved away in 1981.  Still, the losses and the dysfunction affect me greatly.   Either your a fan or your not.  With NHL.TV I watch almost every game, the interviews, pregame/postgame, etc.  I don’t have to live there to suffer from the immense level of incompetence that is the Sabres ownership and front office. 

We can recap the past 10 years of errors, or find someone to run a competent rebuild and move forward.  

Edited by Pimlach
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1 hour ago, Pimlach said:

I don’t live in WNY anymore, I moved away in 1981.  Still, the losses and the dysfunction affect me greatly.   Either your a fan or your not.  With NHL.TV I watch almost every game, the interviews, pregame/postgame, etc.  I don’t have to live there to suffer from the immense level of incompetence that us the Sabres ownership and front office. 

We can recap the past 10 years of errors, or find someone to run a competent rebuild and move forward.  

The difference is, when I turn off the game there is nobody else around who is talking about it.  I don't have to be immersed in it.  I can turn on the radio, or the local news and not hear a words about it.  I can talk to my friends and co-workers and not hear a word about it.  I can go to my son's hockey practices and games and not hear a word about it.  The only time I talk about Buffalo sports with anyone other than my father is on this board and TBD.  It's nice to be able to walk away from it and enjoy something else without hearing about it constantly.

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1 hour ago, Let's Go B-Lo said:

At this point, with both of these teams, rays of sunshine feel more like naive hope than anything else.  Believing that they will do the right things feels like believing in the Great Pumpkin.  Blind faith time is over, they need to start showing me.

Wait, you mean the Great Pumpkin isn’t real?!

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1 hour ago, steveoath said:

At this stage would Puljujarvi be worth a gamble on?

I don't know if adding a disgruntled player who will demand top 6 ice time but has no track record of deserving that time into the current mix will be a good thing.

1 minute ago, SwampD said:

Wait, you mean the Great Pumpkin isn’t real?!

We traded it to STL along with RoR

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21 hours ago, Carmel Corn said:

R2 has been known to make mistakes.....from time to time.

He's young. He will learn patience.  Wait, we're talking about Rasmus the Younger, right? Not Rasmus the Third or Rasmus the Elder?   😉

Staying on target: Botterill does need to get a top six forward this year. I wouldn't bank on getting two players, that's difficult to do when you're trying to protect/accumulate draft picks to build through the draft.

I do appreciate the long-term approach of Botterill is gathering the d-men now. They take longer to develop and there will be attrition amongst their ranks. Forwards are much easier to plug and play at younger ages. The previous two GMs got Risto and Zadorov and Pysyk and McNabb and then proceeded to rush them to the NHL or trade them. All of the moves were justifiable independently by their current GM (and in some cases it meant getting an established 1st/2nd D back), but it also meant that the pipeline of D talent was lacking 1st and 2nd rounders with the highest odds of making it. I always want the next top-4 D waiting in the wings and pushing for a spot....

Which leads us back to.... if you have an excess top-4 pushing for a spot but blocked by established players: trade someone. (either established or the up-and-comer). It's OK to take action JBott. You can use the Moulson for knowledge and defense, and also you can use it for attack. Because we've achieved balance with our Moulson.

Edited by DarthEbriate

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