Botterill, "imperative to keep our depth on defense"

[Thorny]

8 hours ago, dudacek said:

Sabres fandom has become a soul-sucking place populated by people who refused to allow themselves to feel joy at 8-2 and fully embraced despair at 1-4.

Not blaming anyone for how they feel, but it is spoiling Sabrespace for me. It feels like being locked in a room with someone who hates their partner, and talks about nothing else.

Sabrespace is a symptom, not the cause.

The team has long since passed the point of “usual” ineptitude. Frankly, the organization is lucky fans remain as loyal as they are. 

Everyone DID enjoy the streak last year and the early start this year. People have fun when they win. That’s the thing. The reason people are always upset is because the team is always bad. 

It’s the team. What you are witnessing in the fandom isn’t a negative turn, it’s an inevitable turn. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Thorny

[Thorny]

7 hours ago, Doohickie said:

This is what the internet has done to sports.  Thirty years ago the vast majority of fans watched games and possibly one or two locally produced shows tailored to the local teams.  Now there is essentially infinite data available about all teams to all fans.  While I enjoy having a greater depth of knowledge (even with my limited time spent on it), it comes with a price of having full view of your favorite team's warts.

The Sabres warts aren’t found in depth, they are staring at everyone in the face and it would be the case with newspapers, it’s headline stuff. “Sabres lose”. “Sabres miss the playoffs, again”. 

And it goes both ways anyways. Nowadays there’s tons of prospect data and FUTURES stuff for those wanting to forever live in that timeframe. 

[PASabreFan]

If SabreSpace had existed in the summer of 1977, it would have been consumed by talk about how the Sabres were regular season overachievers, how Imlach was not good at constructing a contending team, how the core was not getting the job done, etc. Fans are fans.

[Thorny]

13 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

If SabreSpace had existed in the summer of 1977, it would have been consumed by talk about how the Sabres were regular season overachievers, how Imlach was not good at constructing a contending team, how the core was not getting the job done, etc. Fans are fans.

Exactly. They are reactionary. 

It’s physics. For every action there’s and equal but opposite reaction. The fan revolt, if it seems so over the top to some, is simply the expected, appropriate, and equal reaction to the history making ineptitude we’ve seen on display by this franchise for so long. 

Botterill’s comments nearly come off as trolling, in all honesty. For him to talk about how imperative it is to have a 12 deep D unit while our forwards languish and we have D playing forward is a spit in the face to the fans.

But we should accept it, because NEXT year the books open up. NEXT year, we’ll have Royal Blue - they’ve already made that announcement.

Edited November 21, 2019 by Thorny

[Doohickie]

34 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Nowadays there’s tons of prospect data and FUTURES stuff for those wanting to forever live in that timeframe. 

Yeah, and it's in the perpetual promise of the future that never gets here that the torture lies.

[North Buffalo]

Its the curse of not signing Danny Briere and then not letting Vanek go for 4 no 1s

[North Buffalo]

https://apple.news/AGD0cPv4IT56x8xeGWFaCIg

Interesting article... what we have all been stating.

Edited November 21, 2019 by North Buffalo

[shrader]

14 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

If SabreSpace had existed in the summer of 1977, it would have been consumed by talk about how the Sabres were regular season overachievers, how Imlach was not good at constructing a contending team, how the core was not getting the job done, etc. Fans are fans.

How would this have worked?  Middle-aged PA makes a "post" and mails it out to SDS.  He then hand writes multiple copies and mails those to everyone else.  Two weeks later you trek out to the mailbox and finally find your response from Freeman calling you obtuse?

[North Buffalo]

11 minutes ago, shrader said:

How would this have worked?  Middle-aged PA makes a "post" and mails it out to SDS.  He then hand writes multiple copies and mails those to everyone else.  Two weeks later you trek out to the mailbox and finally find your response from Freeman calling you obtuse?

You didnt have a commodore 5 in floppy disc computer back then... loaded with pong?

[rakish]

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

https://apple.news/AGD0cPv4IT56x8xeGWFaCIg

Interesting article... what we have all been stating.

Well, not everybody

[miles]

I'm not one to defend anyone, but he inherited basically a bad ahl team plus jack and unready samson

He has been working on bringing in offense and defense and tending. It's just going to time. They essentially had nothing of value in trade. They couldn't go only free agents because they would have to way overpay for good players to come to that nightmare. 

The only bad trade was ror, but in reality he wasn't great on the sabres and didnt get along with jack, who had been deemed the future for the franchise. 

I dont think the Sabres will make the playoffs this year, but I do think the will next year. I dont think they are a true contender until luukkonen is ready. They are still soft on goaltenders.

Edited November 21, 2019 by miles

[LGR4GM]

21 minutes ago, miles said:

I'm not one to defend anyone, but he inherited basically a bad ahl team plus jack and unready samson

He has been working on bringing in offense and defense and tending. It's just going to time. They essentially had nothing of value in trade. They couldn't go only free agents because they would have to way overpay for good players to come to that nightmare. 

The only bad trade was ror, but in reality he wasn't great on the sabres and didnt get along with jack, who had been deemed the future for the franchise. 

I dont think the Sabres will make the playoffs this year, but I do think the will next year. I dont think they are a true contender until luukkonen is ready. They are still soft on goaltenders.

I am going to stop you right there because this idea is false. ROR had 61 points on the Sabres his final year. He was a steadying defensive presence on a team that did lack talent. ROR was very good on the Sabres and very good when he went to St Louis. ROR is one of the most consistent players in the league and the ROR was one of the worst trades not only in Sabres history but in league history. 

[Derrico]

I don’t blame Botts for his comments.  What’s he going to say yes we really should be trading a D for a forward?  He would lose any slim leverage he has.  But at the same time it’s a joke he didn’t do something in the summer to improve the forwards.  It’s a joke he hasn’t done anything over the past two weeks when it is OBVIOUS the forwards are nowhere near good enough to make the playoffs.  
 

I know he’s worried about getting fleeced in a trade again but Jesus get creative.  It doesn’t have to be Risto for player x.  Add pieces.  Not saying give up a bunch of futures but it’s your job to figure this out and it’s obviously broken.  How can we just stay the course and repeat last season all over again while he just sits there and watches????

Didnt wgr secret source ***** say there was a trade coming for a forward.  Can we please start treating the secret source similar to Eklund for now on?

[shrader]

32 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I don’t blame Botts for his comments.  What’s he going to say yes we really should be trading a D for a forward?  He would lose any slim leverage he has.  But at the same time it’s a joke he didn’t do something in the summer to improve the forwards.  It’s a joke he hasn’t done anything over the past two weeks when it is OBVIOUS the forwards are nowhere near good enough to make the playoffs.  
 

I know he’s worried about getting fleeced in a trade again but Jesus get creative.  It doesn’t have to be Risto for player x.  Add pieces.  Not saying give up a bunch of futures but it’s your job to figure this out and it’s obviously broken.  How can we just stay the course and repeat last season all over again while he just sits there and watches????

Didnt wgr secret source ***** say there was a trade coming for a forward.  Can we please start treating the secret source similar to Eklund for now on?

I have a secret source too.  Here's a hint: I'm sitting on it.

[miles]

55 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I am going to stop you right there because this idea is false. ROR had 61 points on the Sabres his final year. He was a steadying defensive presence on a team that did lack talent. ROR was very good on the Sabres and very good when he went to St Louis. ROR is one of the most consistent players in the league and the ROR was one of the worst trades not only in Sabres history but in league history. 

61 points and didnt get along with the teams franchise player. I get that it wasn't a good trade, but the reality is, from what I read/ saw ror was a cancer in the clubhouse. 

Sometimes people just don't get along, and the sabres picked jack. 

[LGR4GM]

7 minutes ago, miles said:

61 points and didnt get along with the teams franchise player. I get that it wasn't a good trade, but the reality is, from what I read/ saw ror was a cancer in the clubhouse. 

Sometimes people just don't get along, and the sabres picked jack. 

You don't have to get along to work together. I have been on teams that hated eachother off the field but we got along on the field. 

I have seen no real evidence that he was a cancer. I have seen evidence that he wasn't happy here and that sometimes Jack and ROR disagreed but that's a long way from cancer.

Wasn't a good trade? They traded ROR for 2 piles of *****, a lottery ticket, and a giraffe. 

[Zamboni]

7 minutes ago, miles said:

61 points and didnt get along with the teams franchise player. I get that it wasn't a good trade, but the reality is, from what I read/ saw ror was a cancer in the clubhouse. 

Sometimes people just don't get along, and the sabres picked jack. 

The reality from what you read? Oh that’s rich. Post the article that says, right from the mouth of “the franchise player”... that he did not get along with ROR. Get along and cancer are different. And your case would be even more valid, if you can back it up with more than one “credible” source. Not Joe sports guys twitter feed.
You made the claim. Back up the claim. I don’t need to prove he wasn’t a cancer in the room. 

Edited November 21, 2019 by Zamboni

[Kruppstahl]

Right now Botterill is combing NHL rosters trying to find another Vesey or Sheary to insert into the roster, thinking it will be some sort of difference maker??

Someone tell him this thing needs to be stripped to bare metal and re-worked entirely.

The sad part is you know Pegula is buying whatever Botterill is selling and thinks we are 1 move away...

Holy crap. 

Remember that line from Darcy about the fans suffering?  That has become a curse.

One that may not be broken!
 

 

[miles]

10 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

The reality from what you read? Oh that’s rich. Post the article that says, right from the mouth of “the franchise player”... that he did not get along with ROR. Get along and cancer are different. And your case would be even more valid, if you can back it up with more than one “credible” source. Not Joe sports guys twitter feed.
You made the claim. Back up the claim. I don’t need to prove he wasn’t a cancer in the room. 

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/oreilly-needs-suck-it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/milehighsticking.com/2015/02/11/colorado-avalanche-problem-2-ryan-oreilly/amp/

 

https://buffalonews.com/2018/04/09/sabres-oreilly-says-he-lost-love-of-game-lacked-mental-toughness/

It's not a secret he was a problem. maybe cancer wasn't the best word, but here was a quick search. Hopefully my copy paste skills on my phone dont fail me

 

[Zamboni]

So some fans want a “big” trade

big trades require big assets. So fans are comfortable with trading away one or more of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and Reinhart. Because once you trade one of those, there is a good chance things will go from semi-bad, to much worse for the rest of the season.
No? Ok so it won’t be a big trade. It will be more of a couple pieces from our middle six for a middle six guy who needs a change of scenery. I think the core (who I mentioned above) will all stay put, and they should. JB should be focusing on filling in talent around those guys. I have no issue with moving on from Vesey, Sheary, Olofsson, IF the move creates more offense. And not just make a move because some dopey fans want “something” done. I love it when some fans say “do something” but don’t lay out logical answers to what “something” actually is. If the trading partner will benefit quite well from the trade, then its a logical “something”.

[freester]

3 minutes ago, miles said:

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/oreilly-needs-suck-it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/milehighsticking.com/2015/02/11/colorado-avalanche-problem-2-ryan-oreilly/amp/

 

https://buffalonews.com/2018/04/09/sabres-oreilly-says-he-lost-love-of-game-lacked-mental-toughness/

It's not a secret he was a problem. maybe cancer wasn't the best word, but here was a quick search. Hopefully my copy paste skills on my phone dont fail me

 

None of this is evidence that ROR was a problem.  I'm sure he wasn't happy and recognized an incompetent coach and an incompetent GM.  He may have even asked for a trade.  A good GM would never have traded him, he would have added around him.

[freester]

1 minute ago, Zamboni said:

So some fans want a “big” trade

big trades require big assets. So fans are comfortable with trading away one or more of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and Reinhart. Because once you trade one of those, there is a good chance things will go from semi-bad, to much worse for the rest of the season.
No? Ok so it won’t be a big trade. It will be more of a couple pieces from our middle six for a middle six guy who needs a change of scenery. I think the core (who I mentioned above) will all stay put, and they should. JB should be focusing on filling in talent around those guys. I have no issue with moving on from Vesey, Sheary, Olofsson, IF the move creates more offense. And not just make a move because some dopey fans want “something” done. I love it when some fans say “do something” but don’t lay out logical answers to what “something” actually is. If the trading partner will benefit quite well from the trade, then its a logical “something”.

I think one of Risto, Montour, Miller or Joker gets moved for a quality forward.

[Gatorman0519]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I am going to stop you right there because this idea is false. ROR had 61 points on the Sabres his final year. He was a steadying defensive presence on a team that did lack talent. ROR was very good on the Sabres and very good when he went to St Louis. ROR is one of the most consistent players in the league and the ROR was one of the worst trades not only in Sabres history but in league history. 

Imagine ROR centering the second line with an aggressive trade for another top 6 and Skinner back with Eichel?  Sure would be a hell of a lot better than now.  He should be fired on that trade alone.  It was Brier/Drury fiasco part two. 

[Zamboni]

6 minutes ago, miles said:

https://wgr550.radio.com/articles/opinion/oreilly-needs-suck-it

https://www.google.com/amp/s/milehighsticking.com/2015/02/11/colorado-avalanche-problem-2-ryan-oreilly/amp/

 

https://buffalonews.com/2018/04/09/sabres-oreilly-says-he-lost-love-of-game-lacked-mental-toughness/

It's not a secret he was a problem. maybe cancer wasn't the best word, but here was a quick search. Hopefully my copy paste skills on my phone dont fail me

 

So ... an opinion piece by Howard Simon. Nothing of substance that says directly from “the franchise player”, they didn’t get along.

So ... an opinion piece by someone when he was in Colorado. Not valid at all with the Sabres or the Sabres locker room. Unless one likes to assume “well if there was trouble in one locker room, they’re just must be trouble in another”. C’mon ... good grief.

So ... an article that quotes him and says what many players say when they are on a losing team for multiple years. I’m sure you have heard it from multiple players. Even the dorks on the Instigators show have expressed how draining and demoralized players feel to be on losing teams, for weeks or months, let alone years. And being rich has absolutely nothing to do with it. Some fans like to spit that out like it’s a “cure” for how losing feels. It’s not. 

So far, no proof of ROR being a cancer. And no proof of him and Jack disliking each other or “not getting along”. Unless you count the tension from the TEAM losing for years as “not getting along”. I wouldn’t.

I know some fans love love love reading into things, reading between some made up lines they create in their head. I don’t. I want any claims to be backed up if not once, then twice by credible sources. Not silly opinion pieces. Or Twitter posting sports fans.

i mean, isn’t that what most of us do in life? A car mechanic says you have a leak in your tire. And it’s gonna cost you a lot to replace it. Doesn’t the smart person say “oh damn, show me the leak” so you can verify it with your own eyes? I know I would. Or your doctor says “you have high cholesterol” doesn’t the smart person say “oh wow, can I see the results on your screen or paper” to verify it with your own eyes? I know I would. 
 

Of course you can choose to believe opinion pieces and draw conclusions if you want. I’m not one of them. Agree to disagree on your cancer/ not getting along claims with ROR.

 

[Gatorman0519]

We are not in a good position to trade.  Nor is there much out there.  Too late now.  He had all offseason.