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Claude Balls

GDT: 11/17/19 Buffalo @ Chicago, 7 p.m. EST, MSG, WGR550

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3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

This made me laugh. 

Ya know, in an “I now want to drink until my heart stops” kinda way.

the simpsons GIF

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What would a Risto & Reinhart trade get us?  No way I'm paying Reino 7-8 mil next year. 

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1 minute ago, Tondas said:

What would a Risto & Reinhart trade get us?  No way I'm paying Reino 7-8 mil next year. 

I have no interest in trading Reinhart, however, I'd pay $50 to hear other GMs' answers to this question

Just logged onto twitter. I follow ZERO hockey people (that talk about the Sabres) (anymore). This is the first thing in my feed:
 

So funny

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2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I have no interest in trading Reinhart, however, I'd pay $50 to hear other GMs' answers to this question

I'm saying that Risto and Reino are not worth $13 mil going forward.  Looks like another "rebuild" coming.  Start now.

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12 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Going to restate this since it's been confirmed with the conclusion of the game - Outside of Eichel, Reinhart, Skinner, and Olofsson, none of our other 8 forwards have contributed a goal in 8 of the last 9 games. And Victor only has one in that span. 

We're piling up ominous depth scoring stats the way we did as we free fell last season. 

I don't care much at all about the result tonight. It's one game in 82. We never win in Chicago. I do care that we faced a team that is more than happy to give others free rein over their slot, and typically appears shorthanded in their own zone regardless of the mediocrity of their opponent,  and we instead made them look like peak St. Louis Blues. This goes hand in hand with the stats mentioned above. It has been a massive issue since Jason's first July here. There isn't an end in sight. 

I agree except I care that this team cannot get pumped up enough to end streaks like this.  Losing another to the Hawks is not acceptable   Until these long losing streaks are addressed and stopped we will never be competitive    We have to pass some teams in the standings, meaning beat them when you play them.  This team needs to have some pride.  

JBot loaded up on defensemen, thinking he could trade one or two for help at forward.  I guess the right deal has not come?   So we have a team where half of the forwards are not NHL caliber, we can’t score enough to make up for average goaltending   

I tend not to like too much change, so I would typically think JBot gets 4 years.  However, unlike Beane and McD, I do not think that Terry has found the right guy to run his hockey team.   There is no reason to think otherwise   

 

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5 minutes ago, Tondas said:

What would a Risto & Reinhart trade get us?  No way I'm paying Reino 7-8 mil next year. 

Have to think if he hits the 70 point mark he'll get at least 8. 

42-47-50-65-70

Consistent increase in production, picture of health...

....one of our only good forwards...

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  It has been said that “adversity does not build character it reveals it.”  It does not get any easier for this team.   Only three winnable games in the next 15.   If we see a collapse like last year, God help us.  Massive changes like GM, Coach and most likely Jack for Tank 3.0.  

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1 hour ago, Beer said:

He’s invisible and not developing.  This team is brutal.  If I was Eichel I’d demand a trade.  The crap year after year...

What could we get for Eichel...Rookie Dach beats Jack for both his goals.   Jack still clueless in his own end!!!!

Edited by sweetlou

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When does Brandon Montour return from his injury? That should give us a boost, no?

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6 minutes ago, Broken Ankles said:

  It has been said that “adversity does not build character it reveals it.”  It does not get any easier for this team.   Only three winnable games in the next 15.   If we see a collapse like last year, God help us.  Massive changes like GM, Coach and most likely Jack for Tank 3.0.  

Sabres aren't gonna tank again. But could see the other changes sans Jack.

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I slept through it.  All of it.  I REALLY needed the sleep.  Apparently I missed nothing important.  I am going back to sleep.

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32 minutes ago, Pimlach said:

I tend not to like too much change, so I would typically think JBot gets 4 years.  However, unlike Beane and McD, I do not think that Terry has found the right guy to run his hockey team.   There is no reason to think otherwise   

 

The jury is still out on this point

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I think some names do need to move and Samson may be the name that has to go along with 55

and no joke, maybe Jack is the one to go. He’d fetch multiple top players. Something has to change.

Edited by rickshaw

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42 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Have to think if he hits the 70 point mark he'll get at least 8. 

42-47-50-65-70

Consistent increase in production, picture of health...

....one of our only good forwards...

Yep. The Reinhart “haters” or if one prefers so they aren’t so easily offended, Reinhart “don’t care fors” are like ...

P-S03-28Monkey.jpg?auto=format&fit=max&w

when it comes to what Reinhart WILL get (deservingly) in his next contract. Just like the vast majority of NHL contracts, a lot of hockey fans (not just Sabre fans) will view the next contract for Reinhart as overpaid, not worth it etc... Unless he falls off a cliff production wise ... he’ll get 6-8 years at 6.75 - 8.25 mil. next contract. And the whining for some will begin ?. That contract overall, over the length of it, will be fair for what he brings.

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1 minute ago, rickshaw said:

I think some names do need to move and Samson may be the name that has to go along with 55

and no joke, maybe Jack is the one to go. He’d fetch multiple top players. Something has to change.

Let's assume they decide to do this. 

What does Jack fetch? If you're concerned about winning any point in the next 3 years, it'd have to be a trade for someone with similar value. He wouldn't fetch Matthews, McDavid, MacKinnon by himself. Say we manage to do Eichel for Stamkos or Seguin or something. 

Do a similar thing with Reinhart - what does he bring back? Can you get Ehlers? Maybe get Rakell, give or take something small?

Then Risto goes, whether you get forward or D, unless you do what I'd like and add significant assets to him, you aren't getting a great player. 

You now have
Olofsson - Seguin - Rakell
Skinner - Mojo - Sobotka
Sheary - Mitts - Vesey
LOG
somewhere in there maybe a possible forward valued at Risto's level, whatever you think that might be.

and the same D as tonight, with Miller or Risto's replacement in for Risto.

You didn't change any of the roster issues by doing this. The lineup could get a jolt of energy from the trades initially, like they did with the new coach. It likely wouldn't even be as good as 8-1-1, or the 10 game win streak. And then you're back in the same place with the exact same issues in the exact same places. 

The other option is blowing up for another 3-5 years, and primarily aiming for picks and prospects with these deals, but I don't think that's what you mean. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Let's assume they decide to do this. 

What does Jack fetch? If you're concerned about winning any point in the next 3 years, it'd have to be a trade for someone with similar value. He wouldn't fetch Matthews, McDavid, MacKinnon by himself. Say we manage to do Eichel for Stamkos or Seguin or something. 

Do a similar thing with Reinhart - what does he bring back? Can you get Ehlers? Maybe get Rakell, give or take something small?

Then Risto goes, whether you get forward or D, unless you do what I'd like and add significant assets to him, you aren't getting a great player. 

You now have
Olofsson - Seguin - Rakell
Skinner - Mojo - Sobotka
Sheary - Mitts - Vesey
LOG
somewhere in there maybe a possible forward valued at Risto's level, whatever you think that might be.

and the same D as tonight, with Miller or Risto's replacement in for Risto.

You didn't change any of the roster issues by doing this. The lineup could get a jolt of energy from the trades initially, like they did with the new coach. It likely wouldn't even be as good as 8-1-1, or the 10 game win streak. And then you're back in the same place with the exact same issues in the exact same places. 

The other option is blowing up for another 3-5 years, and primarily aiming for picks and prospects with these deals, but I don't think that's what you mean. 

 

So, we trade Risto and Reino and are 3-5 years out, or we keep Risto and Reino and we're 3-5 years out.  Might as well keep what we got and hope.

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Good points made. I agree we are in trouble. Jack, I believe, can be a top 10 player but he needs to take the whole ice rink seriously. Too many bad defensive zone coverages. He’s got to play all 3 zones. The team isn’t good enough for him to be a fly by kinda defender.

I don’t want to lose the core offensive guys but 55 needs a change of scenery. Hell, get Big Z back from Colorado. The bottom 6 is a huge concern for me. Look at Vegas. All 4 lines can play. Ours, not so much. 
I’m at a loss but something needs changing.

ZG can go too. I’m rambling but something needs to give.

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5 minutes ago, Tondas said:

So, we trade Risto and Reino and are 3-5 years out, or we keep Risto and Reino and we're 3-5 years out.  Might as well keep what we got and hope.

There's a reason that cautious, conservative, rational posters (thinking of dudacek but there were more, and likely X. somewhere too god bless him) were seriously discussing and supporting the idea of handing out an offer sheet this summer, when it's typically such a "from outer space" proposition. The organization needs a large net talent increase which is hard to do when you don't have very many talented assets in the first place. 

 

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2 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

There's a reason that cautious, conservative, rational posters (thinking of dudacek but there were more, and likely X. somewhere too god bless him) were seriously discussing and supporting the idea of handing out an offer sheet this summer, when it's typically such a "from outer space" proposition. The organization needs a large net talent increase which is hard to do when you don't have very many talented assets in the first place. 

 

Sad, but true.  Funny how I want the Sabres to be great in a year but I'm willing to let my bourbon age 12 years before I enjoy it.  

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23 minutes ago, rickshaw said:

I think some names do need to move and Samson may be the name that has to go along with 55

and no joke, maybe Jack is the one to go. He’d fetch multiple top players. Something has to change.

 

16 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

Let's assume they decide to do this. 

What does Jack fetch? If you're concerned about winning any point in the next 3 years, it'd have to be a trade for someone with similar value. He wouldn't fetch Matthews, McDavid, MacKinnon by himself. Say we manage to do Eichel for Stamkos or Seguin or something. 

Do a similar thing with Reinhart - what does he bring back? Can you get Ehlers? Maybe get Rakell, give or take something small?

Then Risto goes, whether you get forward or D, unless you do what I'd like and add significant assets to him, you aren't getting a great player. 

You now have
Olofsson - Seguin - Rakell
Skinner - Mojo - Sobotka
Sheary - Mitts - Vesey
LOG
somewhere in there maybe a possible forward valued at Risto's level, whatever you think that might be.

and the same D as tonight, with Miller or Risto's replacement in for Risto.

You didn't change any of the roster issues by doing this. The lineup could get a jolt of energy from the trades initially, like they did with the new coach. It likely wouldn't even be as good as 8-1-1, or the 10 game win streak. And then you're back in the same place with the exact same issues in the exact same places. 

The other option is blowing up for another 3-5 years, and primarily aiming for picks and prospects with these deals, but I don't think that's what you mean. 

 

In fact, you made them worse, Seguin is not the player Jack is right now, never mind Jack being 5 years younger contributing to his value. 

Short of an absurd offer from another team, we can’t trade Jack. His raw talent is off the charts, he’s ~80-90 point player NOW, in this turd forward group with little help. We saw what happened with ROR, and Jack’s ceiling is >. We trade Jack, we watch a guy score 100 points in another market. Whether we should have tanked or not, he’s basically an irreplaceable talent. 

I don’t want to trade Reinhart, but it’s at least conceivable that there’s somehow a deal out there that brings in a comparable player skill wise that somehow fits better within our roster. 

I’m still hoping it’s Risto. Someone overpays, and we address the forwards without subtracting anything from the position. 

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15 minutes ago, rickshaw said:

Good points made. I agree we are in trouble. Jack, I believe, can be a top 10 player but he needs to take the whole ice rink seriously. Too many bad defensive zone coverages. He’s got to play all 3 zones. The team isn’t good enough for him to be a fly by kinda defender.

I don’t want to lose the core offensive guys but 55 needs a change of scenery. Hell, get Big Z back from Colorado. The bottom 6 is a huge concern for me. Look at Vegas. All 4 lines can play. Ours, not so much. 
I’m at a loss but something needs changing.

ZG can go too. I’m rambling but something needs to give.

Jack is probably good enough to be the best player on a cup winner, as is. Considering St.Louis last season and their rather balanced roster. He’s certainly better than anyone there offensively. He has room to improve, but, I’d change the bolded to: the team needs to improve to the point where he CAN be a fly by defender occasionally (ie - have bad games sometimes without the Sabres imploding.)

I’m not letting him off the hook for those plays, he needs to continue getting better, but, again, he’s at he bottom of the concerns list, he really truly is. 

Edited by Thorny

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6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Jack is probably good enough to be the best player on a cup winner, as is. Considering St.Louis last season and their rather balanced roster. He’s certainly better than anyone there offensively. He has room to improve, but, I’d change the bolded to: the team needs to improve to the point where he CAN be a fly by defender occasionally (ie - have bad games sometimes without the Sabres imploding.)

I’m not letting him off the hook for those plays, he needs to continue getting better, but, again, he’s at he bottom of the concerns list, he really truly is. 

Nahhhh. Let’s trade the guy who has scored our only last 5 goals. 

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Jack should be a Lady Byng finalist, at this rate, to be honest. 

His pace is for 53 goals, 45 assists, 98 points, and a whopping 16 penalty minutes. He's got 2 minor penalties in 20 games. 

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Risto plus something for a top six winger to play in VO’s spot with Jack. VO takes Sobotka’s place on the second line. Maybe Sobotka takes KO’s spot.

Or maybe Vesey takes VO’s spot on Jack’s wing and VO takes Sobotka’s. Vesey can’t buy a goal but he has shown moments of trying to create.

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