GDT: 11/9/2019 1pm ET Buffalo Sabres at Tampa in ModoLand

[calti]

5 hours ago, Tondas said:

The 2 times the Sabres made it to the Finals, they had these players on the roster:

Rick Dudley
Danny Gare
Jerry Korab
Jim Schoenfeld (C)

Randy Cunneyworth
Michael Peca – C
Rob Ray
Rhett Warrener

Any team take liberties on the Sabres in those two seasons?   Who do we have now?  Would you exchange Ray for Okposo?  Schoenfeld for McCabe?  Cunneyworth for Larsson?

Is it really a different league now?

 

according to people on here--many of them----this is a new league now with better players.one guy said that McDavid is better than Gretzky was. I nearly choked from laughter.

If we want to play a skill/speed game we better have great skill on the team.We dont. Not in any quantity. Therefore----you are correct that we need to be very tough like Korab and Schoenfeld and peca...-And we have no one that tough.

[Gatorman0519]

24 minutes ago, calti said:

according to people on here--many of them----this is a new league now with better players.one guy said that McDavid is better than Gretzky was. I nearly choked from laughter.

If we want to play a skill/speed game we better have great skill on the team.We dont. Not in any quantity. Therefore----you are correct that we need to be very tough like Korab and Schoenfeld and peca...-And we have no one that tough.

The Islanders are a great example of a team winning through other means than massive talent, which they don't have.

[Curt]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's different, but not that different. During free agency I suggested Maroon would be a good (relatively cheap) pick up for this very reason. Tampa realized that. Just look at the way he stood in front of our net and banged away at the puck and nobody even came close to moving him.  

In a back to back match up any other team in the league would have come out with fire and banged Kucherov for his hit on Sobotka. I don't think we even came near him once. A team like the Bruins would have banged him around the boards all night long and if they fell behind like we did would have punished him bad for next time. We are weak, listless and useless. How long before Johanson quits on us?  

I expect Risto to quit trying now at all and force a trade. We are done.

Wow.  What a difference 2-3 weeks make for public opinion.  This fan base is just blowing whichever way the wind is going, moment but moment.  And all this about a team that still has a winning record.  

Things even out over the course of a full season.  They are better than last season, but not a top tier team.  Not a bottom dweller either.  Still expecting a finish around 85 points.  Will be lucky to make a playoff push.

[Tondas]

8 minutes ago, Curt said:

Wow.  What a difference 2-3 weeks make for public opinion.  This fan base is just blowing whichever way the wind is going, moment but moment.  And all this about a team that still has a winning record.  

Things even out over the course of a full season.  They are better than last season, but not a top tier team.  Not a bottom dweller either.  Still expecting a finish around 85 points.  Will be lucky to make a playoff push.

I'm happy when they win (obviously).  I know they will lose their share.  What I can't stand is a team that plays with no heart.

[Zamboni]

12 minutes ago, Curt said:

Wow.  What a difference 2-3 weeks make for public opinion.  This fan base is just blowing whichever way the wind is going, moment but moment.  And all this about a team that still has a winning record.  

Things even out over the course of a full season.  They are better than last season, but not a top tier team.  Not a bottom dweller either.  Still expecting a finish around 85 points.  Will be lucky to make a playoff push.

Some fans are knee jerk. Some fans are bridge jumpers. Some fans are eternal optimists. Some fans are happiest when complaining. It’s what makes the sports world go ‘round.

My personal mindset is pretty close to yours. It has been since late August or so.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Zamboni

[PerreaultForever]

59 minutes ago, Curt said:

Wow.  What a difference 2-3 weeks make for public opinion.  This fan base is just blowing whichever way the wind is going, moment but moment.  And all this about a team that still has a winning record.  

Things even out over the course of a full season.  They are better than last season, but not a top tier team.  Not a bottom dweller either.  Still expecting a finish around 85 points.  Will be lucky to make a playoff push.

Been watching the Sabres for about 45 years. I've seen highs and lows. I do not get what has happened really but I can see the fade starting and pretty much know what's coming next. Can I be wrong? Sure. Can Krueger perform a miracle? Sure. Can a turnaround trade happen? Sure. Can a call up produce a new star? Sur......well maybe not, pretty unlikely but you get the point. Yes, MAYBE something will be different this time, but it sure doesn't feel like it. 

I honestly don't know if I can deal with it anymore. It simply isn't worth it. 

[irregularly irregular]

1 hour ago, Tondas said:

I'm happy when they win (obviously).  I know they will lose their share.  What I can't stand is a team that plays with no heart.

Few seem to have the heart to play the whole game. I'm looking at you team captain Jack Eichel. YOU NEED TO CHANGE THIS ATTITUDE. IT STARTS WITH YOU!

Seemingly, none have the spine to play NHL hockey. If you can't stand up for yourself, at least stand up for your teammates.

Last but not least is the dumb plays have to end. This is on the coaching staff and they have lots of work to do.

I started the season not expecting the playoffs and thinking this was another year of building the team for the long run. After what I saw this weekend, I'm wondering if the pieces are there. Right now the answer is no. Ralph has lots of work to do, and I'm thinking he doesn't have the tools he needs to make it happen. 

We will see what the team looks like at the end of November. 

 

[steveoath]

It's the morning after the night before....

It was my first in-person NHL experience. I enjoyed being in Stockholm, and all the hype surrounding the game. The result was disappointing but it was great to see our boys in the flesh. I thought Jack looked head and shoulders above everyone last night, wanted to control the game. But some of the players aren't on his wavelength. Surely RK has to put Skinner on his line??? Speaking of Jeff. His skating is wonderful to watch, as is Montour and (although he didn't have a great game) Dahlin. 

We've got a few days before the next game, hopefully jbot has a trade coming....

[Wyldnwoody44]

9 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Can you clarify what you mean by “in game stuff”?  

I went to 1 game, the Sabres "home game" and the in game stuff was all Tampa. Let's go bolts chants on the screen, all TBL highlights, etc. I would have expected that in Saturdays game, not the game I paid to go to. 

It wasn't helped that the crowd was 70% lightning fans (which surprised me) they did bring buffalo's Stupid goal song over for the few times they did pot the Puck. 

Lastly, I expected some European flare from the crowd (like in soccer) especially being in Sweden, but that was nowhere (this part isn't on the league or Sabres). It was quiet and dull mainly except for the TBL started chants from the jumbotron. 

The Sabres play like doo doo, just exacerbated the night. 

-it was cool to see Swdedn, MODO, all the guys, etc. I just won't go to another neutral site sabres game again, unless I happen to be in the country already. 

[Kruppstahl]

Just wondering.

When will we next win 2 games in a row?

 

[Wyldnwoody44]

1 hour ago, Kruppstahl said:

Just wondering.

When will we next win 2 games in a row?

 

Next preseason ?

[LTS]

This thread has been entertaining.  Too much to respond to from my iPad here in Sweden.

I’ll say this.. Jack Eichel is your problem. The Swedish broadcast pointed out his “leadership” after game 1.  I couldn’t hear nor understand a word they said, but all the highlights were of Eichel whining, shaking his head, etc.
 

Last night he gets crushed by Cernak. Do you know should have responded to that? Jack Eichel.. not Sam Reinhart. Jack was able to get up right after being hit and instead of doing so he looked around, waiting for a penalty, and for someone else to do something. Wrong move. Jack needed to pop up and demonstrate to his team that he cares. Captains set the tone of their team and right now the tone is... look around and blame it on someone else.

There are many issues on the team at the moment. Only a few have to do with “talent”. Most have to do with confidence and being on the same page. I don’t blame the coach... he can only play the players he has and these players are capable of winning. But a few have to go... starting with 55.

For all the arguments about McCabe last night, he was actually tying up one of the Lightning players when that puck was banged in.  That goal is on 55.. he was out of position to begin with and rather than beeline back to the net he takes the time to turn his body to put a shoulder into Maroon after he scores. Wrong move.. the turning takes his stick out of the play and that’s what could have gotten there first. Right now I think Ristolainen can be a decent 3-4 defender for a team who can move up into the top 2... he just isn’t going to do it in Buffalo. He wants out and it shows.

the highlight of my night...

‘Sitting in the bar waiting for MODO. There was a middle aged lady sporting a fugly TBL Christmas sweater who kept pounding on the table and chanting Let’s go lightning, very loud. She was doing a great job of playing drunk ass American acting a fool. She had bar patrons rolling their eyes... she had a casual warning to tone it down and then security stepped in and in no uncertain terms told her to shut up... surprisingly she did. 
 

Onto the next game...

[PerreaultForever]

3 minutes ago, LTS said:

This thread has been entertaining.  Too much to respond to from my iPad here in Sweden.

I’ll say this.. Jack Eichel is your problem. The Swedish broadcast pointed out his “leadership” after game 1.  I couldn’t hear nor understand a word they said, but all the highlights were of Eichel whining, shaking his head, etc.
 

It just might be. It would explain a lot. But if it is, we're definitely screwed, cause he isn't going anywhere.

There was a shot of Eichel laughing it up with a team mate on the bench and I am pretty sure they were losing at the time. I found that odd to say the least. 

[LTS]

Just now, PerreaultForever said:

It just might be. It would explain a lot. But if it is, we're definitely screwed, cause he isn't going anywhere.

There was a shot of Eichel laughing it up with a team mate on the bench and I am pretty sure they were losing at the time. I found that odd to say the least. 

I think he can be the right guy... I think someone needs to call him out... I would hope certain Sabres alumni might... if he doesn’t listen to that.. then we are screwed.

[nucci]

13 hours ago, bunomatic said:

Touchy feely trip for the Swedes among us but a trip largely of futility otherwise. We are what we are. Exposed as a soft team that can be pushed around and disrespected. No fear on the part of the bolts in pissing anyone off. Whats the worse that can happen ?its the Sabres. JBOT I don’t envy you your job. I hope the Pegulas have your feet to the fire.

unfortunately, we've been this way for many years.

[SABRES 0311]

31 minutes ago, LTS said:

I think he can be the right guy... I think someone needs to call him out... I would hope certain Sabres alumni might... if he doesn’t listen to that.. then we are screwed.

Not gonna argue his talent. Yes he is young but he’s been in the league for a few years now. He’s definitely a guy you want on your team but as the captain I do not know. Maybe a few more years down the road. 

[Scottysabres]

42 minutes ago, nucci said:

unfortunately, we've been this way for many years.

Exactly this.

For some reason, lord only knows why, the ownership (who you'd think would want a tougher team since Terry was a supposed fan of the 70's team) just absolutely refuses to properly address this specific subject. It is quite baffling since it's been on full display for a while now.

[Weave]

2 hours ago, LTS said:

 

I’ll say this.. Jack Eichel is your problem. The Swedish broadcast pointed out his “leadership” after game 1.  I couldn’t hear nor understand a word they said, but all the highlights were of Eichel whining, shaking his head, etc.
 

Right from his rookie season he's been handled incorrectly.  We've all heard the rumors of the vets-youth split in the room right from his rookie season.  And it was never "fixed".

There is a petulance to him that isn't healthy.  We need to hope that he grows out of it, and soon.  Or hope there's another Turgeon-LaFontaine deal out there to be had.

[Curt]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Been watching the Sabres for about 45 years. I've seen highs and lows. I do not get what has happened really but I can see the fade starting and pretty much know what's coming next. Can I be wrong? Sure. Can Krueger perform a miracle? Sure. Can a turnaround trade happen? Sure. Can a call up produce a new star? Sur......well maybe not, pretty unlikely but you get the point. Yes, MAYBE something will be different this time, but it sure doesn't feel like it. 

I honestly don't know if I can deal with it anymore. It simply isn't worth it. 

Yeah, I understand why you might feel that way, but 2-3 weeks/6-8 games ago you were one of those saying that this was the start of something great and that Krueger had changed things.

What was your expectation for the team before the season in terms of points?  What is your expectation now?

I think we need to be realistic about this stuff.  A team that has Sobotka/Vesey playing in the top-6, Risto-McCabe playing 24 mins per night and Hutton/Ullmark in goal is going to have a rough time making the playoffs.  Even if they do have a nice start to the season, those are not players that you should be leaning on in key positions over the course of a whole season.  This is a team that is improved over last season but not drastically improved.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Curt

[Cascade Youth]

50 minutes ago, Weave said:

Right from his rookie season he's been handled incorrectly.  We've all heard the rumors of the vets-youth split in the room right from his rookie season.  And it was never "fixed".

There is a petulance to him that isn't healthy.  We need to hope that he grows out of it, and soon.  Or hope there's another Turgeon-LaFontaine deal out there to be had.

He’s just not a mentally tough person.  That’s a hard thing to learn to be, especially when life doesn’t incentivize or challenge you to be a tougher person.  I’m starting to wonder whether they need to think about moving on from him - if you can get 3-4 first round picks or a couple of lesser (but grittier, mentally tougher) stars, it might be time to at least begin having that conversation.  Jack wants to win badly but he doesn’t seem to have the internal fortitude to lead himself or others through tough times or situations.  I guess he’s been spoiled for too long, or something.  Mental toughness comes from suffering humility and adversity and resolving to push through it.  Has Jack ever had to do that?  He moped through the post-tank era...

And then there’s Dahlin, who is playing with zero confidence.  Night after night he makes terrible plays that would get any other young player exiled to the press box or the AHL.  At some point something is going to have to break with him because he’s spiraling.  Can he just play his way out of it on a declining team under pressure to win?  I’m not so sure.

And finally there’s Mitts.  I keep hearing “Mitts will be fine.”  Ok... at what point in his career does it become fair to question whether the player will ever put it together?  Now he’s a winger on a line which barely plays - so he’s been demoted.  He makes one great defensive hustle play in an overtime and the media hypes it up - but that’s basically the only memorable play he’s made since he got here, aside from a few nifty shootout goals.  I’m not the expert some of you are, but I watch the guy and I don’t see an NHL-caliber player.  

9 minutes ago, Curt said:

Yeah, I understand why you might feel that way, but 2-3 weeks/6-8 games ago you were one of those saying that this was the start of something great and that Krueger had changed things.

What was your expectation for the team before the season in terms of points?  What is your expectation now?

I think we need to be realistic about this stuff.  A team that has Sobotka/Vesey playing in the top-6, Risto-McCabe playing 24 mins per night and Hutton/Ullmark in goal is going to have a rough time making the playoffs.  Even if they do have a nice start to the season, those are not players that you should be leaning on in key positions over the course of a whole season.  This is a team that is improved over last season but not drastically improved.

Vesey is the only guy willing to get his nose dirty on the boards.  That’s what I see at least.  He’s not the issue.  In fact I might try him on Jack’s line instead of VO, since Jack doesn’t feel like competing defensively anymore and VO is strictly a sniper.

Edited November 10, 2019 by Cascade Youth

[bob_sauve28]

This is a very young team that will have to grow more. Exercising patience is frustrating but we know these guys can play. Hopefully they can get their groove back and start wining a few. It isnt like they are losing to rotten teams, the Islanders were on a long winning streak, the Caps are a great team, Tampa is an upper echelon team, also. 

 

They have built up some points early early in the season and hopefully they can get back to winning and show they can handle the adversity of a losing streak. 

 

Go Sabres! 

[Torpedo Forecheck]

So we're identifying the teams problem as Jack shaking his head (Swedish media), rumors, and personal opinion "not mentally tough". Throw in lets send Dahlin to the AHL, and Mitts is always a  good whipping boy.

Might I point out; Eichel is Top 10 in scoring, Mitts is much improved, and Dahlin is a just turned 19 Yr old Dman who was the number 1 pick in the draft 1 1/2 ago. Burn the house down.

Might I also point out: Vesey, Sheary, Sobotka, Larsson, Girgs, Okposo might be able to add just a little bit. They don't score and as a bottom 6 forward could you at least have some guys who add some other intangible like grittiness, toughness, edge, agitation, muscle, physicality,heart?

[Curt]

11 minutes ago, Torpedo Forecheck said:

So we're identifying the teams problem as Jack shaking his head (Swedish media), rumors, and personal opinion "not mentally tough". Throw in lets send Dahlin to the AHL, and Mitts is always a  good whipping boy.

Might I point out; Eichel is Top 10 in scoring, Mitts is much improved, and Dahlin is a just turned 19 Yr old Dman who was the number 1 pick in the draft 1 1/2 ago. Burn the house down.

Might I also point out: Vesey, Sheary, Sobotka, Larsson, Girgs, Okposo might be able to add just a little bit. They don't score and as a bottom 6 forward could you at least have some guys who add some other intangible like grittiness, toughness, edge, agitation, muscle, physicality,heart?

Yup, Eichel is the problem because he is really good at hockey, but not good enough to compensate for the holes in the roster.  It’s obvious.

25 minutes ago, Cascade Youth said:

He’s just not a mentally tough person.  That’s a hard thing to learn to be, especially when life doesn’t incentivize or challenge you to be a tougher person.  I’m starting to wonder whether they need to think about moving on from him - if you can get 3-4 first round picks or a couple of lesser (but grittier, mentally tougher) stars, it might be time to at least begin having that conversation.  Jack wants to win badly but he doesn’t seem to have the internal fortitude to lead himself or others through tough times or situations.  I guess he’s been spoiled for too long, or something.  Mental toughness comes from suffering humility and adversity and resolving to push through it.  Has Jack ever had to do that?  He moped through the post-tank era...

And then there’s Dahlin, who is playing with zero confidence.  Night after night he makes terrible plays that would get any other young player exiled to the press box or the AHL.  At some point something is going to have to break with him because he’s spiraling.  Can he just play his way out of it on a declining team under pressure to win?  I’m not so sure.

And finally there’s Mitts.  I keep hearing “Mitts will be fine.”  Ok... at what point in his career does it become fair to question whether the player will ever put it together?  Now he’s a winger on a line which barely plays - so he’s been demoted.  He makes one great defensive hustle play in an overtime and the media hypes it up - but that’s basically the only memorable play he’s made since he got here, aside from a few nifty shootout goals.  I’m not the expert some of you are, but I watch the guy and I don’t see an NHL-caliber player.  

Vesey is the only guy willing to get his nose dirty on the boards.  That’s what I see at least.  He’s not the issue.  In fact I might try him on Jack’s line instead of VO, since Jack doesn’t feel like competing defensively anymore and VO is strictly a sniper.

So Vesey isn’t the problem, but Eichel is?  I’m not buying that one.

[CallawaySabres]

Talent is the problem,  end of story. This team doesn't need 6 new players every year, they need 4 of them to have talent. Johanssen and Oloffson were  the only forwards with any sort of talent that were added.....and that's pretty pathetic.

Reality is that this is a bottom 5 team....again

[Curt]

What’s becoming obvious to me is that there is a portion of this fan base that can not take losing any longer.  I can’t blame them, but they are also overreacting to what is likely a fairly normal period of poor play that average teams often go through.

I don’t think it’s proof of an impending downward spiral into oblivion.  It’s just the normal ups and downs of a very average NHL roster.  They just aren’t a great team.