triumph_communes Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 https://apnews.com/325f23d5acc649b48c047b75a79e0e0c NCAA appears to cave into the argument to let players profit in some undetermined way off of their likeness. Along with this change, do we expect any changes to how draft picks are handled in the NHL? Does this change how many grade A prospects will choose the NCAA route? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Yeah, they weren't going to win that battle. Smart of them to concede. As for the consequences for hockey: We now have the pathway for a Jack Eichel to possibly stay in school, but I question by how much a hockey player actually will profit from selling the rights to his name and likeness. Some prospects might choose NCAA over CHL for this, but I don't know that this is going to be much of a motivator for hockey. There just aren't enough people out there who care about college hockey. There are a bunch on this board, to be sure, but I don't think we reflect the general population. I see the NCAA's new rule as benefitting football and basketball players, with the occasional olympian (maybe a gymnast, skier, or swimmer or something) in there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 Definitely a property rights argument... no way NCAA wins... it might keep some kids in school longer even top hockey guys, say a Jack or a Makar... but hockey isnt a national sport... be interesting how it effects Canadian guys? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 7 minutes ago, North Buffalo said: Definitely a property rights argument... no way NCAA wins... it might keep some kids in school longer even top hockey guys, say a Jack or a Makar... but hockey isnt a national sport... be interesting how it effects Canadian guys? Here's the thing: Is an Eichel or Makar going to make enough off of a Bauer sponsorship or a car dealership appearance to forego an NHL contract? (And it would take that level of college player to gain anything at all, because college hockey is obscure.) Even if it's Connor McDavid, and he sells his rights in Canada while he plays for Whatever State, he's not going to clear anything close to what he makes on a rookie NHL deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
North Buffalo Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 22 minutes ago, Eleven said: Here's the thing: Is an Eichel or Makar going to make enough off of a Bauer sponsorship or a car dealership appearance to forego an NHL contract? (And it would take that level of college player to gain anything at all, because college hockey is obscure.) Even if it's Connor McDavid, and he sells his rights in Canada while he plays for Whatever State, he's not going to clear anything close to what he makes on a rookie NHL deal. True but does make enough difference to keep said talent in school for a year or two more or to get a degree. Not sure, but for some guys it might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 44 minutes ago, Eleven said: Here's the thing: Is an Eichel or Makar going to make enough off of a Bauer sponsorship or a car dealership appearance to forego an NHL contract? (And it would take that level of college player to gain anything at all, because college hockey is obscure.) Even if it's Connor McDavid, and he sells his rights in Canada while he plays for Whatever State, he's not going to clear anything close to what he makes on a rookie NHL deal. College Hockey may be "obscure" but it is one of the VERY few that nets out making money across all the NCAA schools. (Or at least it did back when there were only 4 conferences. Haven't seen recent data.) Don't know that getting to profit off their "likeness" will be enough to keep kids in school, but if this ends up allowing college players to hire agents (rather than have "family advisers" ) this MIGHT cause more kids to choose NCAA Hockey rather than CHL (or even USHL) (or for Pi, Switzerland ? ) as simply getting paid in Juniors ends kids college eligibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 54 minutes ago, Eleven said: Here's the thing: Is an Eichel or Makar going to make enough off of a Bauer sponsorship or a car dealership appearance to forego an NHL contract? (And it would take that level of college player to gain anything at all, because college hockey is obscure.) Even if it's Connor McDavid, and he sells his rights in Canada while he plays for Whatever State, he's not going to clear anything close to what he makes on a rookie NHL deal. It will never matter for that level of player. Staying in school, all they've done is delayed the start of that ELC. As Taro suggests, it may bring a few extra players there, but it won't keep the elite there any longer. The elite from any feeder system, college/junior/europe all make that jump immediately. And even then, I'm not so sure any market other than Boston or Minnesota is going to be much of a draw for this. The focus is too heavily in favor of football/bouncyball anywhere else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 29, 2019 Report Share Posted October 29, 2019 (edited) 2 hours ago, shrader said: It will never matter for that level of player. Staying in school, all they've done is delayed the start of that ELC. As Taro suggests, it may bring a few extra players there, but it won't keep the elite there any longer. The elite from any feeder system, college/junior/europe all make that jump immediately. And even then, I'm not so sure any market other than Boston or Minnesota is going to be much of a draw for this. The focus is too heavily in favor of football/bouncyball anywhere else. That's the point. Only that elite level of player is going to make money off of his likeness. Certainly in Boston (which has four pro sports that tend to win things) and very likely in Minnesota (which has four pro sports that tend to lose things). And how is our hypothetical hockey player going to compete with Pastrnak or that wad Marchand in Boston, for hockey image dollars? Edited October 29, 2019 by Eleven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 16 hours ago, Eleven said: That's the point. Only that elite level of player is going to make money off of his likeness. Certainly in Boston (which has four pro sports that tend to win things) and very likely in Minnesota (which has four pro sports that tend to lose things). And how is our hypothetical hockey player going to compete with Pastrnak or that wad Marchand in Boston, for hockey image dollars? Those are the only two towns where I can envision any market for hockey players. You'd be surprised just how much attention the big two schools in Boston draw. I'd suspect that Northeastern has started to get a little more recently as they've been winning more (that's the Boston way, isn't it, pay attention to the winners), but I left before that happened, so I haven't seen it first hand. They don't have to compete with the NHL guys, they'd essentially be the cheaper alternative for the businesses that don't want to spend as much. But that goes right back to the point that there won't be crazy amounts of money to be had, but still more than most other markets. 3rd rate ad dollars in Boston are still going to be way more that 1st rate dollars in Orono Maine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 1 hour ago, shrader said: 3rd rate ad dollars in Boston are still going to be way more that 1st rate dollars in Orono Maine. Absolutely, but way less than rookie rate dollars in the NHL. What are your thoughts on whether non-NHL-ready players at BU or BC would make some money here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 6 minutes ago, Eleven said: Absolutely, but way less than rookie rate dollars in the NHL. What are your thoughts on whether non-NHL-ready players at BU or BC would make some money here? "Some". It's going to be very dependent on the scenario. First obviously would be what the NCAA ultimately allows. But after that, I could imagine cases where you might have a second or third generation player who will draw interest just due to his father. A quick example would be that Tony Amonte's kid is currently at BU. He's very unlikely to have a significant professional future, but I could some opportunity where they bring in both the father and the son for some ads. That's one that could go across markets at some point too. Say Dominik Hasek's kid is in net for UNH. That could draw a couple ad dollars out of Buffalo. But yeah, give me the ELC any day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
triumph_communes Posted October 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 2 hours ago, shrader said: Those are the only two towns where I can envision any market for hockey players. You'd be surprised just how much attention the big two schools in Boston draw. I'd suspect that Northeastern has started to get a little more recently as they've been winning more (that's the Boston way, isn't it, pay attention to the winners), but I left before that happened, so I haven't seen it first hand. They don't have to compete with the NHL guys, they'd essentially be the cheaper alternative for the businesses that don't want to spend as much. But that goes right back to the point that there won't be crazy amounts of money to be had, but still more than most other markets. 3rd rate ad dollars in Boston are still going to be way more that 1st rate dollars in Orono Maine. 3rd rate ad dollars are still more than what minor leaguers earn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 39 minutes ago, triumph_communes said: 3rd rate ad dollars are still more than what minor leaguers earn? That's an interesting question. Even if they are, does it outweigh the potential future earnings from ending your ELC as soon as possible? It might keep the late round picks around longer, but those guys already weren't leaving anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 Curious how quickly the NCAA came around to this after the State of California pressed the issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattPie Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 I suppose it may end up changing the NHL's draft rules though. There's a better path for a player to stick it out in the NCAA for 4 hours and be UFA now. If I'm at year 3 and making some ad dollars, maybe I stick around for year 4 and choose my NHL team. I wonder if the NHL will switch over to something more like the CHL rules for NCAA players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eleven Posted October 30, 2019 Report Share Posted October 30, 2019 27 minutes ago, MattPie said: If I'm at year 3 and making some ad dollars, maybe I stick around for year 4 and choose my NHL team. Really a good point here. I'll bet this is the largest effect we see (absent a change in the draft rules). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shrader Posted October 31, 2019 Report Share Posted October 31, 2019 23 hours ago, MattPie said: I suppose it may end up changing the NHL's draft rules though. There's a better path for a player to stick it out in the NCAA for 4 hours and be UFA now. If I'm at year 3 and making some ad dollars, maybe I stick around for year 4 and choose my NHL team. I wonder if the NHL will switch over to something more like the CHL rules for NCAA players. But you also wait one year longer to get through the restricted salaries of your ELC. I'm not so sure any of us know what that ad money would amount to, but does that balance out the extra year or two of your career where you can make a much larger salary but you've passed on? Ultimately the decision not to wait for the 4 years and not sign is not one that is made over money. It's about being able to choose where you want to play. Most people probably don't stop to think about it, but this option is also available to the CHL players, except they would be re-drafted after year two. But even with that, they could sit and wait until they have their choice, all while pulling in some dollars. How often do we see that happen? When you have a limited earning window, most people are going to get inside that window as soon as possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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