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OT Star Wars Rise of Skywalker

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I’m worried how this is all going to shake out. I’m a fan who went beyond the movies. Huge fan of the EU. Played the hell out of the entire Jedi Knight series as well as KOTR...both Force Unleased games..dabbled in some books and comics...

I really didn’t like the storylines from either Disney production. Maybe the awesomeness of the EU has colored my view? Probably. 

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1 minute ago, Ogre said:

I’m worried how this is all going to shake out. I’m a fan who went beyond the movies. Huge fan of the EU. Played the hell out of the entire Jedi Knight series as well as KOTR...both Force Unleased games..dabbled in some books and comics...

I really didn’t like the storylines from either Disney production. Maybe the awesomeness of the EU has colored my view? Probably. 

I'm in the same place. I don't have a whole lot of faith given how much of a mess, objectively, TLJ was. It's got nothing to do with being a super fan or anything. Wanting a movie to have a plot that makes sense is totally reasonable lol 

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11 minutes ago, Ogre said:

I’m worried how this is all going to shake out. I’m a fan who went beyond the movies. Huge fan of the EU. Played the hell out of the entire Jedi Knight series as well as KOTR...both Force Unleased games..dabbled in some books and comics...

I really didn’t like the storylines from either Disney production. Maybe the awesomeness of the EU has colored my view? Probably. 

I bet that plays a HUGE factor in the enjoyment of the new movies. And I don't think it's a coincidence Rogue One seems to be the least divisive of them, by far. 

One of my best friends is the biggest Star Wars fan ever and in order for him to enjoy the movies he told me he basically still keeps the EU stuff as his "real" version and enjoys the new stuff kinda separately. 

I consider myself a Star Wars fan, but I'm purely a movies guy. I've really liked the new movies and I loved The Last Jedi. I don't know a single data point from the EU, and I bet it's it makes the new movies easier for me to enjoy. 

Just didn't grow up delving into the series, came to it a bit later. I think that same friend brought Return of the Jedi in to class once on a free day, but the first one I sought out by choice and watched was Revenge of the Sith, in theatres. 

5 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I'm in the same place. I don't have a whole lot of faith given how much of a mess, objectively, TLJ was. It's got nothing to do with being a super fan or anything. Wanting a movie to have a plot that makes sense is totally reasonable lol 

Haha this is perfect timing. 

It may not have to do with being a super fan, I just think that's the case often, from experience talking to fans I know. 

The reason you listed definitely comes up too, and is totally valid, but where you are wrong is calling it objective. We are still dealing with subjectivity, just the subjectivity that is movies rather than Star Wars fandom.

Edited by Thorny

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9 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I bet that plays a HUGE factor in the enjoyment of the new movies. And I don't think it's a coincidence Rogue One seems to be the least divisive of them, by far. 

One of my best friends is the biggest Star Wars fan ever and in order for him to enjoy the movies he told me he basically still keeps the EU stuff as his "real" version and enjoys the new stuff kinda separately. 

I consider myself a Star Wars fan, but I'm purely a movies guy. I've really liked the new movies and I loved The Last Jedi. I don't know a single data point from the EU, and I bet it's it makes the new movies easier for me to enjoy. 

Just didn't grow up delving into the series, came to it a bit later. I think that same friend brought Return of the Jedi in to class once on a free day, but the first one I sought out by choice and watched was Revenge of the Sith, in theatres. 

Haha this is perfect timing. 

It may not have to do with being a super fan, I just think that's the case often, from experience talking to fans I know. 

The reason you listed definitely comes up too, and is totally valid, but where you are wrong is calling it objective. We are still dealing with subjectivity, just the subjectivity that is movies rather than Star Wars fandom.

I think there are plenty of things from a filmmaking standpoint that I could point to that have nothing to do with it being a Star War. You could replace the entire universe, characters, and history with something completely different and TLJ as a movie still fails. It's just not entertaining. The plot is bad, the dialogue is bad, the pacing is bad. It's just a bad movie. I don't really mind the general outcome with respect to what is canon now in the SW universe, I'm open minded about that. But you have to at least make a good film if you're also going to take the characters and story in a bold direction. 

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3 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I think there are plenty of things from a filmmaking standpoint that I could point to that have nothing to do with it being a Star War. You could replace the entire universe, characters, and history with something completely different and TLJ as a movie still fails. It's just not entertaining. The plot is bad, the dialogue is bad, the pacing is bad. It's just a bad movie. I don't really mind the general outcome with respect to what is canon now in the SW universe, I'm open minded about that. But you have to at least make a good film if you're also going to take the characters and story in a bold direction. 

Fair enough, but it's all subjective. I disagree with probably every word you've said in your analysis of the movie. I'm not saying plenty don't share your exact view, just that there are people out there who struggle with it for the reason I mentioned. 

Edited by Thorny

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2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Fair enough, but it's all subjective. I disagree with probably every word you've said in your analysis of the movie. I'm not saying plenty don't share your exact view, just that there are people out there who struggle with it for the reason I mentioned. 

TLJ felt the same to me that Wonder Woman did a few months earlier. Two movies I wanted to be good and left wondering what the hell I just watched. I'm not a huge comic book nerd or anything so I can't put it on my fandom that I didn't like WW, but both movies left me wanting in essentially the same way: that I felt like care hadn't been taken to make either one. 

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7 minutes ago, darksabre said:

TLJ felt the same to me that Wonder Woman did a few months earlier. Two movies I wanted to be good and left wondering what the hell I just watched. I'm not a huge comic book nerd or anything so I can't put it on my fandom that I didn't like WW, but both movies left me wanting in essentially the same way: that I felt like care hadn't been taken to make either one. 

I really liked Wonder Woman haha. Guess that fits. But even then, I'm sure our opinions could be drastically different about those 2 movies, yet super similar about others. 

It's an interesting comparison though you made, to be sure. I've never heard those 2 movies compared.  

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2 minutes ago, Thorny said:

I really liked Wonder Woman haha. Guess that fits. But even then, I'm sure our opinions could be drastically different about those 2 movies, yet super similar about others. 

It's an interesting comparison though you made, to be sure. I've never heard those 2 movies compared.  

There's not a ton to compare between them except that I think both started strong and then fell apart at the end; but it's a proximity thing. Both made me sad in a relatively short period of time and now I connect them forever lol 

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I saw the original New Hope when I was 6 at a theatre. As a kid my parents and family bought a lot of toys from the first 3 movies. I was very immersed for years. I’ve liked every movie. Some more than others, but every one I’ve enjoyed. Why? Because it’s entertainment and I don’t get all serious and super “judgey” like some critics do. (No one here is over the top fruit loops in their criticism). Mild opinion or preferences are very understandable in the Star Wars universe with fans. I also never got into the huge choices of books or side stories written. Pretty strictly just interested in the movies. Well, except for playing Battlefronts on PS2, and now PS4 😂.

I’m looking very forward to the closing chapter to a terrific experience/story that for me has spanned 42 years since seeing the original New Hope in a theatre with my uncle. Maybe I’ll take him, all these years later. 🤔

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16 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

I saw the original New Hope when I was 6 at a theatre. As a kid my parents and family bought a lot of toys from the first 3 movies. I was very immersed for years. I’ve liked every movie. Some more than others, but every one I’ve enjoyed. Why? Because it’s entertainment and I don’t get all serious and super “judgey” like some critics do. (No one here is over the top fruit loops in their criticism). Mild opinion or preferences are very understandable in the Star Wars universe with fans. I also never got into the huge choices of books or side stories written. Pretty strictly just interested in the movies. Well, except for playing Battlefronts on PS2, and now PS4 😂.

I’m looking very forward to the closing chapter to a terrific experience/story that for me has spanned 42 years since seeing the original New Hope in a theatre with my uncle. Maybe I’ll take him, all these years later. 🤔

I was 11.  

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9 hours ago, darksabre said:

They have sooooo much to wrap up in one movie. 

I think with the last two movies being generally disliked that they need this to be a success. I believe if its another failure, Kathleen Kennedy will be working elsewhere. 

I think that they need to start over after this. Do a different timeline like the Old republic or something 1000 years in the future. 

Rehashing the emperor feels like a poor attempt at regaining the original trilogy fans that they lost.

They truly need a new idea during a different timeline. as long as you can compare new characters old to new as being a  1 to 1, it will be called a rehash.

At this point, I wont pay to see this movie in the theater. after the few movies, I am honestly over star wars at this point. it's a shame because it was truly a passion of mine before Disney bought it.

 

Edited by miles
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11 hours ago, Zamboni said:

I saw the original New Hope when I was 6 at a theatre. As a kid my parents and family bought a lot of toys from the first 3 movies. I was very immersed for years. I’ve liked every movie. Some more than others, but every one I’ve enjoyed. Why? Because it’s entertainment and I don’t get all serious and super “judgey” like some critics do. (No one here is over the top fruit loops in their criticism). Mild opinion or preferences are very understandable in the Star Wars universe with fans. I also never got into the huge choices of books or side stories written. Pretty strictly just interested in the movies. Well, except for playing Battlefronts on PS2, and now PS4 😂.

I’m looking very forward to the closing chapter to a terrific experience/story that for me has spanned 42 years since seeing the original New Hope in a theatre with my uncle. Maybe I’ll take him, all these years later. 🤔

Lol Pretty much said the same thing to my students this morning. 

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As someone who was incredibly passionate about star wars I will say this about the last jedi in why I didnt like it

1. Luke had a completely different personality than in the ot. (Original trilogy). He was a caring person who wanted to help people and until the last scenes he was a person who stopped happening and was a defeatist 

2. Rey was able to pick up being a jedi so easily. she had no real struggles in tlj. Nothing for her to over come 

3. Everything that was setup by jj Abrams was ignored by rian Johnson and felt completely disjointed 

4. Snoke was easily defeated and wasnt a factor even though he was built up as the new main enemy,  see #3.

 

Han solo movie was way better, but still not great. The woodie Harrilson character said one thing and contradicted himself 1 second later.  I'm talking about the part where he said to han not to trust people and then woodies girlfriend dies and it's the opposite. I'm having trouble explaining it. I liked the Darth maul tie in at the end, but if you dont know the star wars cartoon series you wouldn't understand it. 

Edited by miles
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Luke turned into a Beta male.  It was a horrible way to end his character.  Lame.  It still lives on because of the success of the originals.

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29 minutes ago, miles said:

As someone who was incredibly passionate about star wars I will say this about the last jedi in why I didnt like it

1. Luke had a completely different personality than in the ot. (Original trilogy). He was a caring person who wanted to help people and until the last scenes he was a person who stopped happening and was a defeatist 

2. Rey was able to pick up being a jedi so easily. she had no real struggles in tlj. Nothing for her to over come 

3. Everything that was setup by jj Abrams was ignored by rian Johnson and felt completely disjointed 

4. Snoke was easily defeated and wasnt a factor even though he was built up as the new main enemy,  see #3.

 

Han solo movie was way better, but still not great. The woodie Harrilson character said one thing and contradicted himself 1 second later.  I'm talking about the part where he said to han not to trust people and then woodies girlfriend dies and it's the opposite. I'm having trouble explaining it. I liked the Darth maul tie in at the end, but if you dont know the star wars cartoon series you wouldn't understand it. 

In terms of #3,  Johnson also left no major plot lines for JJ Abrams to complete in Episode 9. 

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I am one of the few star wars fans that I know that read/played most of the old EU stuff and loved TLJ. I still think most of the hate for the movie surrounds Luke's character. I honestly don't understand it either.

In the EU Luke had many moments of failure. If you look at just the movies he absolutely should be a mess once he processes everything that happened in the original trilogy. He was manipulated from birth to be a weapon to kill the emperor and his father and let's not forget falling in love with his secret sister.

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Thanks for the reminder.  Just bought our Christmas day tickets.  The nuclear family has been going every Christmas to see these, so, have to keep up "the tradition".  

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6 minutes ago, drnkirishone said:

I am one of the few star wars fans that I know that read/played most of the old EU stuff and loved TLJ. I still think most of the hate for the movie surrounds Luke's character. I honestly don't understand it either.

In the EU Luke had many moments of failure. If you look at just the movies he absolutely should be a mess once he processes everything that happened in the original trilogy. He was manipulated from birth to be a weapon to kill the emperor and his father and let's not forget falling in love with his secret sister.

Luke's character in TLJ actually didn't bother me. I like a good heel turn. The problem is they didn't make it feel genuine enough. It was too forced.

My biggest peeve with it is the disservice they did to Captain Phasma. That character had so much potential and it's like they didn't know what to do with her. They could have at least have waited until Rise of Skywalker to give her the Boba Fett treatment.

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To be fair they have never had a clue of what to do with captain phasma. It is almost like the entire concept of the character was cool looking badass armor. Wait, it kinda was.

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Just now, drnkirishone said:

To be fair they have never had a clue of what to do with captain phasma. It is almost like the entire concept of the character was cool looking badass armor. Wait, it kinda was.

It definitely was. But man, when you strike gold like that, you gotta do something with it, right?

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This is Hollywood, they butcher everything.  I mean, how do you screw up The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit?  Leave it to Hollywood to show you how.  Personally, I don't get caught up trying to reconcile the messes they make in the story details.  If I'm entertained at the end, then I'm entertained.  The only outrageous moment was the Princess Leia in outer space thing.  It was so bad, it distracted me from the rest of the movie.  I'll watch it again before SW:RoS, and at least this time I'll be prepared for it. 

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