What happens when Montour returns?

[Curt]

7 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Huh?

i guess I’m really out of the loop. I thought he was just healing from his surgery over the summer ?‍♂️

what the h e double hockey sticks happened to Bogo now?

1) He had some sort of set back in his recovery from surgery, not really any details out there though.  He has been plagued by hip problems so it’s not out of the question that it could be something nearly career ending going on.  If he had to have season ending hip surgery, and that didn’t fix his problem, I don’t know what his next step is.

2) Buffalo actually has 5-6 D better than a healthy Bogo.  4 of them RD. 

Those two things combined make it a real possibility that Bogo never sees the ice for Buffalo ever again.

[Zamboni]

1 minute ago, Curt said:

1) He had some sort of set back in his recovery from surgery, not really any details out there though.  He has been plagued by hip problems so it’s not out of the question that it could be something nearly career ending going on.  If he had to have season ending hip surgery, and that didn’t fix his problem, I don’t know what his next step is.

2) Buffalo actually has 5-6 D better than a healthy Bogo.  4 of them RD. 

Those two things combined make it a real possibility that Bogo never sees the ice for Buffalo ever again.

Oh wow. I wasn’t aware. Thanks.

in that case, yea my thoughts on Bogo returning are quite bleak and grim.

[WildCard]

9 hours ago, Zamboni said:

Bogo games played 

2014-15 ... 62

2015-16 ... 64

2016-17 ... 56

2017-18 ... 18

2018-19 ... 65

why would it be impossible to imagine Bogo playing 30 or more games for the Sabres? His contract is highly unmovable. Not impossible. But almost.

 

 

The injury sounds more serious, and there's no room in this lineup

1 hour ago, Curt said:

1) He had some sort of set back in his recovery from surgery, not really any details out there though.  He has been plagued by hip problems so it’s not out of the question that it could be something nearly career ending going on.  If he had to have season ending hip surgery, and that didn’t fix his problem, I don’t know what his next step is.

2) Buffalo actually has 5-6 D better than a healthy Bogo.  4 of them RD. 

Those two things combined make it a real possibility that Bogo never sees the ice for Buffalo ever again.

Well said

[Doohickie]

1 hour ago, Zamboni said:

in that case, yea my thoughts on Bogo returning are quite bleak and grim.

 

1 hour ago, Curt said:

1) He had some sort of set back in his recovery from surgery, not really any details out there though.  He has been plagued by hip problems so it’s not out of the question that it could be something nearly career ending going on.  If he had to have season ending hip surgery, and that didn’t fix his problem, I don’t know what his next step is.

Everything after the bold is conjecture and commentary.  All we know is Bogo had surgery to correct an ongoing hip issue and it's been reported that he had a setback.  The rest of Curt's post is him trying to read the tea leaves.  I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm saying none of us know.

We don't know how bleak and grim the situation is.

5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

The injury sounds more serious,

Have you seen anything where the seriousness of it has been described, other than to say he had a setback?

WC is also trying to read the tea leaves.

Edited October 19, 2019 by Doohickie

[inkman]

22 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Montour could get a conditioning assignment in Rochester to buy some more time. 

Go on... ?

[Gatorman0519]

Well the benefactor in all this improved defensive play clearly has been Cater Hutton.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

 

Everything after the bold is conjecture and commentary.  All we know is Bogo had surgery to correct an ongoing hip issue and it's been reported that he had a setback.  The rest of Curt's post is him trying to read the tea leaves.  I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm saying none of us know.

We don't know how bleak and grim the situation is.

Have you seen anything where the seriousness of it has been described, other than to say he had a setback?

WC is also trying to read the tea leaves.

The only thing I’ve heard recently was on Botterill’s radio hit on WGR.

Bulldog says “Before training camp Krueger said something to the effect there’s been a setback,” Botterill says “mmhmm,” Bulldog says “is there a timeline?” And Jason offers up some vague GM speak about “it’s a serious surgery, we want to make sure that when he comes back, he’s 100 percent not just for this season, but for his career.”

It’s about as non-specific as it gets.

According the Instagram, he was on the ice in full gear July 30 and unable to make an event Oct. 17 because of rehab. Not much else out there that I’m aware of.

[Curt]

2 hours ago, Doohickie said:

 

Everything after the bold is conjecture and commentary.  All we know is Bogo had surgery to correct an ongoing hip issue and it's been reported that he had a setback.  The rest of Curt's post is him trying to read the tea leaves.  I'm not saying he's wrong, I'm saying none of us know.

We don't know how bleak and grim the situation is.

Have you seen anything where the seriousness of it has been described, other than to say he had a setback?

WC is also trying to read the tea leaves.

It absolutely is conjecture and commentary, but he had a timeframe for return, was skating, recovering on schedule.  Then there was a setback of some sort, he has no timeframe for return, and no one has seen or heard news about him.  To me, it seems like it many not be a minor thing.

[Derrico]

I can’t wait for Montour to join this group.  RK wants defence to be mobile and get the puck out of the zone quick with a good first pass.  He’s going to fit in like a glove.  

[Randall Flagg]

5 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I can’t wait for Montour to join this group.  RK wants defence to be mobile and get the puck out of the zone quick with a good first pass.  He’s going to fit in like a glove.  

There might be a bit of a settle-in period where he struggles to get acclimated to the hockey others have been playing for weeks, and is playing with a Sabres team that isn't running for the bus, with a new coach, for the first time. But I think when he does get back into the groove of things, we will have at least 4 defensemen capable of being our best defenseman any given night. 

[Gatorman0519]

Great defense and good goaltending with timely scoring/depth and the sky is the limit.  We could leapfrog Toronto on this alone.

[Thorny]

On 10/18/2019 at 11:12 AM, darksabre said:

I'm trying to figure out where Montour fits on this roster.

Dahlin-Miller seems to work really well.

McCabe-Risto are eating the heavy defensive minutes

Scandella-Joker are doing a completely reasonable job as the 3rd D pair.

I think what ultimately happens is Miller shifts to McCabe's spot and Dahlin and Montour become our offensive D line. Risto is the odd-man out unless they really like his play with McCabe.

Miller to the left side and McCabe's the odd man out, or Risto out for Miller?

- - - 

I think if we are still healthy when Montour gets back, it increases the likelihood of a trade, but in the end, I'd imagine Botterill has a firm ask in mind that both a) needs to be met regardless before a move is made and b) if met, ensures* Risto is moved regardless of his improved play (*Our existing depth combined with strength of return).

 

Edited October 19, 2019 by Thorny

[TheAud]

On 10/18/2019 at 4:34 PM, Curt said:

If that’s true then it probably means that they plan to play him regularly.  I can’t see the sense of having a 20 yr old ride the bench.  He needs to play.

I agree with this, but Tage Thompson certainly experienced otherwise...

Personally I am hoping for Risto trade for Sobotka 2nd line replacement (through in ERod or Lazar if needed), move Montour into his spot at 21 minutes per game and give the other three minutes to Dahlin to get him to 21+ per game. 

Gilmour and call-ups for depth.  

 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, Thorny said:

Miller to the left side and McCabe's the odd man out, or Risto out for Miller?

- - - 

I think if we are still healthy when Montour gets back, it increases the likelihood of a trade, but in the end, I'd imagine Botterill has a firm ask in mind that both a) needs to be met regardless before a move is made and b) if met, ensures* Risto is moved regardless of his improved play (*Our existing depth combined with strength of return).

 

As long as Ristolainen and McCabe are the guys getting the heavy minutes, can't see Krueger taking either from 24+ and 22+ to 0.

Was Montour getting PK duty that 1st preseason game he played?  If so, could see Scandella being the guy that sits when Montour comes back with one of the righty's not named Risto switching sides.

If not, either Miller or Jokiharju sit.  And, don't see a point to sitting a 20 yo rather than sending him down, so best guess is Miller would then sit with Montour taking entirely his role.  (Partnered with Dahlin; time on PP 2, 5th PK D-man.)

If Scandella sits, having Montour back could knock 2 minutes of ice time off Risto 's plate as he and Miller would run that 2nd PP.

[Thorny]

3 minutes ago, Taro T said:

As long as Ristolainen and McCabe are the guys getting the heavy minutes, can't see Krueger taking either from 24+ and 22+ to 0.

Was Montour getting PK duty that 1st preseason game he played?  If so, could see Scandella being the guy that sits when Montour comes back with one of the righty's not named Risto switching sides.

If not, either Miller or Jokiharju sit.  And, don't see a point to sitting a 20 yo rather than sending him down, so best guess is Miller would then sit with Montour taking entirely his role.  (Partnered with Dahlin; time on PP 2, 5th PK D-man.)

If Scandella sits, having Montour back could knock 2 minutes of ice time off Risto 's plate as he and Miller would run that 2nd PP.

So if Cheveldayoff calls you/Botterill and offers Ehlers for Risto straight up, do you/Botterill do it?

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So if Cheveldayoff calls you/Botterill and offers Ehlers for Risto straight up, do you/Botterill do it?

In a NY minute.

[Brawndo]

48 minutes ago, Thorny said:

So if Cheveldayoff calls you/Botterill and offers Ehlers for Risto straight up, do you/Botterill do it?

I’d drive to Winnipeg and pick up Ehlers 

[3putt]

Barring a trade Joker gets sent down.  Yes he is playing well.  Yes he is better than others on the right side.  But he is still a young prospect with a bright future.  You want him playing top minutes in all situations as opposed to sitting in the press box.  Gilmore is well suited for that.  Injuries will happen and he will be back.  Marco is gone at the tdl no matter what as he is an expiring ufa with value.  Pilut keeps Joker company waiting for the call.  Not optimal, but better than selling low on players now just to alleviate the logjam. jmho.

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, 3putt said:

Barring a trade Joker gets sent down.  Yes he is playing well.  Yes he is better than others on the right side.  But he is still a young prospect with a bright future.  You want him playing top minutes in all situations as opposed to sitting in the press box.  Gilmore is well suited for that.  Injuries will happen and he will be back.  Marco is gone at the tdl no matter what as he is an expiring ufa with value.  Pilut keeps Joker company waiting for the call.  Not optimal, but better than selling low on players now just to alleviate the logjam. jmho.

Generally on board with this.

Wonder how isolated Gilmour is feeling these days.

[nfreeman]

17 hours ago, Thorny said:

So if Cheveldayoff calls you/Botterill and offers Ehlers for Risto straight up, do you/Botterill do it?

 

17 hours ago, Taro T said:

In a NY minute.

I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days.

I like Ehlers, and would've said yes immediately over before the season started, but they are 7 and freaking 2, with a number of quality wins, and they look great, and Risto is a huge part of all that.  RK is leaning on him quite a bit.

I think I'm at the point where it needs to be more than Ehlers and maybe needs to be such a good offer that no one would make the offer.

And I'm definitely not trading Risto just to avoid healthy-scratching Scandy or sending down Joker, either of which would be only until someone else gets hurt.

[TrueBlueGED]

4 hours ago, nfreeman said:

 

I've been thinking about this over the last couple of days.

I like Ehlers, and would've said yes immediately over before the season started, but they are 7 and freaking 2, with a number of quality wins, and they look great, and Risto is a huge part of all that.  RK is leaning on him quite a bit.

I think I'm at the point where it needs to be more than Ehlers and maybe needs to be such a good offer that no one would make the offer.

And I'm definitely not trading Risto just to avoid healthy-scratching Scandy or sending down Joker, either of which would be only until someone else gets hurt.

You've done a complete 180 (or, well, I guess a 150 or so) because of 9 games? Irrational exuberance alert! 

6 hours ago, 3putt said:

Barring a trade Joker gets sent down.  Yes he is playing well.  Yes he is better than others on the right side.  But he is still a young prospect with a bright future.  You want him playing top minutes in all situations as opposed to sitting in the press box.  Gilmore is well suited for that.  Injuries will happen and he will be back.  Marco is gone at the tdl no matter what as he is an expiring ufa with value.  Pilut keeps Joker company waiting for the call.  Not optimal, but better than selling low on players now just to alleviate the logjam. jmho.

This is the correct answer, minus the Marco gone at the deadline part. If we're in a playoff spot, or have a real shot at making it, I don't see the value in depleting defensive depth for a 4th round pick. 

[nfreeman]

58 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

You've done a complete 180 (or, well, I guess a 150 or so) because of 9 games? Irrational exuberance alert! 

This is the correct answer, minus the Marco gone at the deadline part. If we're in a playoff spot, or have a real shot at making it, I don't see the value in depleting defensive depth for a 4th round pick. 

I plead guilty!

Seriously, if they can win a game like they did last night, where they legit earned it for 60 min on the road against a good team, and kept it coming in the 3rd period in the face of fatigue and adversity -- it could be a great season. 

[dudacek]

I feel like some people don’t remember how talented Montour is, or that Scandella has spent most of his career playing like he has the past nine games, or that Risto is a better player than what he showed the second half of last year.

It’s possible to have seven good NHL defencemen. And it’s also OK to keep them.

[Andrew Amerk]

On 10/19/2019 at 12:24 PM, Gatorman0519 said:

Well the benefactor in all this improved defensive play clearly has been Cater Hutton.

I thought his name was Crater Hutton?

[Thorny]

5 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

You've done a complete 180 (or, well, I guess a 150 or so) because of 9 games? Irrational exuberance alert! 

This is the correct answer, minus the Marco gone at the deadline part. If we're in a playoff spot, or have a real shot at making it, I don't see the value in depleting defensive depth for a 4th round pick. 

I can’t see Jokiharju going down as the answer, he’s been one of our best players. 

But ya it’s a very interesting situation as like others have highlighted, NO ONE deserves to come out of the lineup. 

Edited October 21, 2019 by Thorny