Around the NHL 2019-20

[#freejame]

9 hours ago, Curt said:

Rome fell because the Romans were ninnies?

I thought Rome fell because of their decline in available slave labor, privatization of the military, civil wars, rampant corruption within government, incompetent emperors, climate change leading to poor harvests making it difficult to feed their larger population centers, and a dozen other reasons.

But I didn’t learn about it in school, so I guess the answer to your question is no.  Some people do teach it though.  I recommend Mike Duncan’s wonderful podcast “History of Rome”.    It’s really fantastic.  Always engaging, never too dry.

Haven’t listened to that but you should read Mary Beard’s SPQR

Edited November 12, 2019 by #freejame
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[triumph_communes]

57 minutes ago, Curt said:

Rome fell because the Romans were ninnies?

I thought Rome fell because of their decline in available slave labor, privatization of the military, civil wars, rampant corruption within government, incompetent emperors, climate change leading to poor harvests making it difficult to feed their larger population centers, and a dozen other reasons.

But I didn’t learn about it in school, so I guess the answer to your question is no.  Some people do teach it though.  I recommend Mike Duncan’s wonderful podcast “History of Rome”.    It’s really fantastic.  Always engaging, never too dry.

You listed a bunch of symptoms but couldn’t find a root cause?

[Curt]

6 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

You listed a bunch of symptoms but couldn’t find a root cause?

Nope.  I listed some probable causes.  Contributing factors.

Can you make a case that Rome declined/fell because they were ninnies?

 

[Eleven]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Haven’t listened to that but you should reach Mary Beard’s SPQR

It is excellent.

25 minutes ago, Curt said:

Nope.  I listed some probable causes.  Contributing factors.

Can you make a case that Rome declined/fell because they were ninnies?

 

Hush.  He's trying to push an agenda.  He needs quiet so he can concentrate.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Eleven

[Curt]

1 hour ago, #freejame said:

Haven’t listened to that but you should reach Mary Beard’s SPQR

9 minutes ago, Eleven said:

It is excellent.

Thanks guys.  I’ll have to check it out. Especially if it comes in an audiobook!  I don’t read as much as I would like any longer, but I find the daily commute to be a great time listen to such things.  Mostly history and sports podcasts.

[Eleven]

11 minutes ago, Curt said:

Thanks guys.  I’ll have to check it out. Especially if it comes in an audiobook!  I don’t read as much as I would like any longer, but I find the daily commute to be a great time listen to such things.  Mostly history and sports podcasts.

It's available on audio.  Dan Carlin also had some great Roman history podcasts, but I think he charges to subscribe now?  @josie might know; I think she's a Carlin fan.

[Curt]

1 minute ago, Eleven said:

It's available on audio.  Dan Carlin also had some great Roman history podcasts, but I think he charges to subscribe now?  @josie might know; I think she's a Carlin fan.

I love Carlin.  His newer stuff is free, older stuff he charges for.

[bunomatic]

The new coaches corner

[Eleven]

Just now, bunomatic said:

The new coaches corner

That's so Sikh.

[bunomatic]

1 minute ago, bunomatic said:

The new coaches corner

This would at least be inclusive . These guys actually do Canucks broadcasts out of Vancouver.

[thewookie1]

1 hour ago, bunomatic said:

The new coaches corner

I have seen those two before and they are both rather knowledgeable; but at this time it only look like a PC move versus a legitimate promotion. I can't see HNIC doing this and not receiving extreme backlash since its appearance would be yet another example of modern society's propensity to swing to extremes rather than be sane and moderate. 

[bunomatic]

2 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I have seen those two before and they are both rather knowledgeable; but at this time it only look like a PC move versus a legitimate promotion. I can't see HNIC doing this and not receiving extreme backlash since its appearance would be yet another example of modern society's propensity to swing to extremes rather than be sane and moderate. 

Yeah I picked that photo off facebook and it was a meme/joke going round. They are actual broadcasters and they are good. I’ve seen them interviewed and they are diehard hockey guys. Good for them. 

[Neo]

8 hours ago, Eleven said:

It's available on audio.  Dan Carlin also had some great Roman history podcasts, but I think he charges to subscribe now?  @josie might know; I think she's a Carlin fan.

To Eleven:   Carlin’s Rome, awesome.   Carlin’s almost everything, awesome.  Hardcore History.  Some great stuff (hours and hours) is free.

Death Throes of the Republic $9.99, and a bargain at that.

To everyone:   I have complicated and mixed feelings about Cherry.  It was inevitable (one side of the coin) in this environment (other side of the coin).  A man can be more, or less, articulate.   He can be more, or less, graceful.  He can be more, or less, accurate.   I’ve listened and watched the segment and have a view about where he lands on those three continua.  Now, I skate onto thin ice.  His defenders may conclude he’s further along on the accuracy axis than he is on those of articulation and grace.  His detractors may say that matters not.  The latter is an approach to our society that fills me with dread and sadness.  As best as I can find or figure, he was fired for being divisive, not for being wrong.  That should give the thoughtful pause.

Now, I don’t know enough about Canada’s Remembrance Day and poppy statistics to know whether he’s generally correct or generally wrong.  I do know that generally correct statements can be shouted down and punished in our current environment.  Cherry had an idea.  Heaven forbid we debate it when we can simply assert it’s divisive and fire him.  I think i know where Triumph Communes was heading.  That place would be far more important and interesting than the “old dinosaur had it coming” space.

Society fired Don Cherry ten years ago.  His employer waited until sufficient cover arrived to make the announcement.  This isn’t unique to old Don.  It was the correct income statement decision, today.  Thirty hears ago it would’ve led to a boycott of Hockey Night in Canada.  This is progress, or not, depending on your views of language, reason and debate.

Canada is hosting some great debate in the realm of freedom, reason, and “social justice” (as the concept somehow exists outside of simple “justice”).  It’s not for the faint of heart, the indoctrinated, or the closed minded on either side.  Good luck, Canada.

 

Edited November 12, 2019 by Neo

[triumph_communes]

12 hours ago, Curt said:

Rome fell because the Romans were ninnies?

I thought Rome fell because of their decline in available slave labor, privatization of the military, civil wars, rampant corruption within government, incompetent emperors, climate change leading to poor harvests making it difficult to feed their larger population centers, and a dozen other reasons.

But I didn’t learn about it in school, so I guess the answer to your question is no.  Some people do teach it though.  I recommend Mike Duncan’s wonderful podcast “History of Rome”.    It’s really fantastic.  Always engaging, never too dry.

Ultimately, inviting foreign armies into the nation who just turned around later and sacked the city when corruption ran rampant and unsustainable food programs had a hiccup has parallels that go above and beyond your understanding.

 

Trudeau did a great job promoting every cabinet member based upon skin color.  Following Obama's footsteps in that regard.  I'm sure sportsnet will do the same.

 

 

Sure, Cherry could use some humility.  Many service members never once ask for recognition.  But he's an 85yo man that's walked the walk in life, he's the one person qualified to ramble.  Embarrassing that young folks take their service for granted like that.

 

And yes, I love Carlin.  And it's hilarious that you bring him up on this topic--- Trump literally broke Carlin.  The American non-PC Cherry.  He was the hero Carlin pined for for decades, yet everything he ever read made him want to despise the man.  Except still, Trump was everything Carlin ever asked for.  His Common Sense podcast faded out as his cognitive dissonance gave him pain, and his Trump Derangement Symptom listeners rabidly attacked him for even merely mentioning the idea that an outsider may be better than another corrupt retread and he wanted to calm down the divisiveness.  Sad, because he was a voice of reason that could've helped bridge the divide.  At least it shifted his gears enough to pump out the Addendum series.

Edited November 12, 2019 by triumph_communes

[Zamboni]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

To Eleven:   Carlin’s Rome, awesome.   Carlin’s almost everything, awesome.  Hardcore History.  Some great stuff (hours and hours) is free.

Death Throes of the Republic $9.99, and a bargain at that.

To everyone:   I have complicated and mixed feelings about Cherry.  It was inevitable (one side of the coin) in this environment (other side of the coin).  A man can be more, or less, articulate.   He can be more, or less, graceful.  He can be more, or less, accurate.   I’ve listened and watched the segment and have a view about where he lands on those three continua.  Now, I skate onto thin ice.  His defenders may conclude he’s further along on the accuracy axis than he is on those of articulation and grace.  His detractors may say that matters not.  The latter is an approach to our society that fills me with dread and sadness.  As best as I can find or figure, he was fired for being divisive, not for being wrong.  That should give the thoughtful pause.

Now, I don’t know enough about Canada’s Remembrance Day and poppy statistics to know whether he’s generally correct or generally wrong.  I do know that generally correct statements can be shouted down and punished in our current environment.  Cherry had an idea.  Heaven forbid we debate it when we can simply assert it’s divisive and fire him.  I think i know where Triumph Communes was heading.  That place would be far more important and interesting than the “old dinosaur had it coming” space.

Society fired Don Cherry ten years ago.  His employer waited until sufficient cover arrived to make the announcement.  This isn’t unique to old Don.  It was the correct income statement decision, today.  Thirty hears ago it would’ve led to a boycott of Hockey Night in Canada.  This is progress, or not, depending on your views of language, reason and debate.

Canada is hosting some great debate in the realm of freedom, reason, and “social justice” (as the concept somehow exists outside of simple “justice”).  It’s not for the faint of heart, the indoctrinated, or the closed minded on either side.  Good luck, Canada.

 

Nice post.

i would add ... it shouldn’t have been said like that on the air during a hockey intermission. He absolutely has the right to think that way or express it to friends and family. Being “right or wrong” about the subject he laid out has nothing to do with his right to express it. If it’s something he genuinely feels he sees, fine. But just not on a broadcast for a hockey game. I would bet if he said that same thing for an interview for a local paper, or magazine, or news website, he wouldn’t have been fired from HNC.

[Eleven]

2 hours ago, Neo said:

To Eleven:   Carlin’s Rome, awesome.   Carlin’s almost everything, awesome.  Hardcore History.  Some great stuff (hours and hours) is free.

Death Throes of the Republic $9.99, and a bargain at that.

To everyone:   I have complicated and mixed feelings about Cherry.  It was inevitable (one side of the coin) in this environment (other side of the coin).  A man can be more, or less, articulate.   He can be more, or less, graceful.  He can be more, or less, accurate.   I’ve listened and watched the segment and have a view about where he lands on those three continua.  Now, I skate onto thin ice.  His defenders may conclude he’s further along on the accuracy axis than he is on those of articulation and grace.  His detractors may say that matters not.  The latter is an approach to our society that fills me with dread and sadness.  As best as I can find or figure, he was fired for being divisive, not for being wrong.  That should give the thoughtful pause.

Now, I don’t know enough about Canada’s Remembrance Day and poppy statistics to know whether he’s generally correct or generally wrong.  I do know that generally correct statements can be shouted down and punished in our current environment.  Cherry had an idea.  Heaven forbid we debate it when we can simply assert it’s divisive and fire him.  I think i know where Triumph Communes was heading.  That place would be far more important and interesting than the “old dinosaur had it coming” space.

Society fired Don Cherry ten years ago.  His employer waited until sufficient cover arrived to make the announcement.  This isn’t unique to old Don.  It was the correct income statement decision, today.  Thirty hears ago it would’ve led to a boycott of Hockey Night in Canada.  This is progress, or not, depending on your views of language, reason and debate.

Canada is hosting some great debate in the realm of freedom, reason, and “social justice” (as the concept somehow exists outside of simple “justice”).  It’s not for the faint of heart, the indoctrinated, or the closed minded on either side.  Good luck, Canada.

 

I still have Death Throes of the Republic from when it was released.  I should give it another listen; it's been a long time.

"Society fired Don Cherry ten years ago" is a great observation.  I think it might actually be longer, like when it became obvious that "euros" aren't "soft" and people got sick of that line of commentary. 

Looking back through some of what I've seen here and elsewhere, I am heading towards--I haven't reached it yet--the conclusion that his xenophobia comes from the mental anguish of consistently losing to Guy Lafleur's Habs year after year.  That bred his well-known contempt for French Canadian players, and it was just a few steps from there, to hating European players, to where he is now.

Save us Guy Lafleur!

Edited November 12, 2019 by Eleven

[triumph_communes]

7 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

Nice post.

i would add ... it shouldn’t have been said like that on the air during a hockey intermission. He absolutely has the right to think that way or express it to friends and family. Being “right or wrong” about the subject he laid out has nothing to do with his right to express it. If it’s something he genuinely feels he sees, fine. But just not on a broadcast for a hockey game. I would bet if he said that same thing for an interview for a local paper, or magazine, or news website, he wouldn’t have been fired from HNC.

Cherry has promoted the troops during intermissions for 40 years.  Coach's corner has been a space for propaganda for decades.

[Eleven]

1 minute ago, triumph_communes said:

Cherry has promoted the troops during intermissions for 40 years.  Coach's corner has been a space for propaganda for decades.

He's also been a xenophobic idiot for nearly 40 years.

[Zamboni]

4 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Cherry has promoted the troops during intermissions for 40 years.  Coach's corner has been a space for propaganda for decades.

I know this. I wasn’t talking about his love for the troops. I was talking about the sentence(s) that got him fired.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Zamboni

[Doohickie]

 

31 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

Many service members never once ask for recognition.  But he's an 85yo man that's walked the walk in life, he's the one person qualified to ramble.

He didn't walk the veteran walk, though.  He never served in the armed forces.

[Eleven]

21 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

 

He didn't walk the veteran walk, though.  He never served in the armed forces.

It doesn't matter anyway.  He wasn't fired for supporting the armed forces, and he's welcome to his opinion on the armed forces regardless of whether he served.

Any claim that he was fired for supporting the armed forces is just a distraction from the issue at hand: a pattern of commentary based upon hatred and fear that culminated in a final salvo on Saturday night.

Edited November 12, 2019 by Eleven

[Curt]

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

Ultimately, inviting foreign armies into the nation who just turned around later and sacked the city when corruption ran rampant and unsustainable food programs had a hiccup has parallels that go above and beyond your understanding.

This is the only part I will respond to because I have zero interest in discussing contemporary politics here.

What do you know of my understanding on the topic?  Have you gotten to the part yet where you show that Rome declined because they were ninnies? 

[...]

33 minutes ago, Eleven said:

Any claim that he was fired for supporting the armed forces is just a distraction from the issue at hand: a pattern of commentary based upon hatred and fear that culminated in a final salvo on Saturday night.

Of course.  Nationalism can only be hatred and fear. 

[shrader]

1 hour ago, Doohickie said:

 

He didn't walk the veteran walk, though.  He never served in the armed forces.

I just wish that instead of instantly condemning anyone with opposing views, we would instead try to understand why they have them.  With Cherry, you have a guy who grew up during world war 2 and it's immediate aftermath.  I'm not surprised that someone like that would have the views he has.  That's not really the issue here.  If we stopped the presses each time an old person had a controversial view, nothing would ever get published.  Hmmm, maybe that's why print died.

He's got every right to think how he does and I understand why.  That doesn't mean he should have a national broadcast to spout those thoughts.  His time has passed and it's time to move on.

[...]

Just now, shrader said:

I just wish that instead of instantly condemning anyone with opposing views, we would instead try to understand why they have them.  With Cherry, you have a guy who grew up during world war 2 and it's immediate aftermath.  I'm not surprised that someone like that would have the views he has.  That's not really the issue here.  If we stopped the presses each time an old person had a controversial view, nothing would ever get published.  Hmmm, maybe that's why print died.

He's got every right to think how he does and I understand why.  That doesn't mean he should have a national broadcast to spout those thoughts.  His time has passed and it's time to move on.

Why not? All you're doing is saying censorship of thought is okay.  So the perspective of a guy who has experienced the world being turned upside down and the results of that should be ignored?  There is a maxim or two that addresses this.