Around the NHL 2019-20

[PASabreFan]

6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Do you think Labatt felt like your posts were "careful?"  It sure looked like he got offended and left -- which has happened a number of times as a direct result of people (not just you) blasting away with politically-related ad hominem attacks in threads on the main board.  Neo left and now it looks like Flagg has done so as well.

If your point is that discussions of race relations aren't political, I think you're just splitting hairs.

There's a reason the politics club was formed.  Keep it there, please.

Kind of amazing I've never left, innit? (At least not of my own volition.) I want to thank my dad for naming me Sue.

[shrader]

Just now, PASabreFan said:

Kind of amazing I've never left, innit? (At least not of my own volition.) I want to thank my dad for naming me Sue.

You leaving.  The Sabres winning the Cup.  We have so many goals around here.

[PASabreFan]

10 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Do you think Labatt felt like your posts were "careful?"  It sure looked like he got offended and left -- which has happened a number of times as a direct result of people (not just you) blasting away with politically-related ad hominem attacks in threads on the main board.  Neo left and now it looks like Flagg has done so as well.

If your point is that discussions of race relations aren't political, I think you're just splitting hairs.

There's a reason the politics club was formed.  Keep it there, please.

 

Also, not for nothing, do you think it's a problem that the Politics Club is titled "The Oval Office" and has the seal of the president?

2 minutes ago, shrader said:

You leaving.  The Sabres winning the Cup.  We have so many goals around here.

You contributing something of value. We'll get there, friends! But I may not see the mountaintop with ya!

[nfreeman]

4 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Also, not for nothing, do you think it's a problem that the Politics Club is titled "The Oval Office" and has the seal of the president?

Well, I'm not sure who chose that name and decor, but I also don't see what the problem is. 

[Eleven]

26 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

If your point is that discussions of race relations aren't political, I think you're just splitting hairs.

Not everything related to race relations is political.  Most of this wasn't.  Whether someone likes or dislikes a part of a discussion doesn't render the discussion political, either.

9 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Well, I'm not sure who chose that name and decor, but I also don't see what the problem is. 

LTS, I think.  I don't see the problem, either.

Edited August 28, 2020 by Eleven

[JohnC]

2 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Do you think Labatt felt like your posts were "careful?" It sure looked like he got offended and left -- which has happened a number of times as a direct result of people (not just you) blasting away with politically-related ad hominem attacks in threads on the main board.  Neo left and now it looks like Flagg has done so as well.

If your point is that discussions of race relations aren't political, I think you're just splitting hairs.

There's a reason the politics club was formed.  Keep it there, please.

 

Whether you are talking sports, race, social issues, economics, sports stadiums and who should pay for them etc. politics is inescapably intertwined with most topics. There is an option for people who find any discussion tainted by politics distasteful: Don't respond and don't get involved with the topic. It's as simple as that. Bringing passion to an issue, pro or anti, to these type of discussions doesn't lessen the political nature of the discussion but rather intensifies and prolongs it. There are plenty of topics on this board to choose from. If a particular topic is so irritating there is an obvious solution to the problem. Simply avoid it. One person who declared he was forever leaving this site because he found the intrusion of politics on a sports site so repugnant then gave an extended eloquent response why he chose to leave. That reaction was perplexing. Why even bother to get involved with an issue when there is an option to avoid it?

Edited August 28, 2020 by JohnC

[WildCard]

If Flagg left, between him, True, and Hoss, that's a lot of good posters leaving because of politics, which is ***** dumb 

[Radar]

2 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If Flagg left, between him, True, and Hoss, that's a lot of good posters leaving because of politics, which is ***** dumb 

Sad. Pretty much takes a big toll in my opinion on this site. I think we all need to handle our own convictions in a place that it's productive for what we're trying to accomplish. This isn't the place, in my opinion, this is a place to escape it for awhile. Hope they who have left whoever they are will return.

[PerreaultForever]

3 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Do you think Labatt felt like your posts were "careful?"  It sure looked like he got offended and left -- which has happened a number of times as a direct result of people (not just you) blasting away with politically-related ad hominem attacks in threads on the main board.  Neo left and now it looks like Flagg has done so as well.

If your point is that discussions of race relations aren't political, I think you're just splitting hairs.

There's a reason the politics club was formed.  Keep it there, please.

 

While I understand your separation concerns, and you and I definitely don't agree on things as you know, the world is an interconnected place and these things don't exist in vacuums. When Kelly Hrudey, Ron Maclean and various sports/hockey guys are on the tv giving "political" comments on sports broadcasts, and the players themselves are making "political" statements  it seems to me that keeping fans (us) from making anything even remotely political at this moment is wrong, or at least unnecessary. 

The so called political discussions will pass and the allegedly offended will return - we all know that - but the optics of shutting it down or out of Sabrespace does come across like a form of social control over an issue you (or whoever shuts it down) simply doesn't like or wants kept quiet. 

I'm not being "political" here . just saying removing the discussion LOOKS bad much like what a lot of media people said about the NHL's slow response. It is bad optics. 

and there's no hockey to discuss..............

 

[shrader]

5 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

While I understand your separation concerns, and you and I definitely don't agree on things as you know, the world is an interconnected place and these things don't exist in vacuums. When Kelly Hrudey, Ron Maclean and various sports/hockey guys are on the tv giving "political" comments on sports broadcasts, and the players themselves are making "political" statements  it seems to me that keeping fans (us) from making anything even remotely political at this moment is wrong, or at least unnecessary. 

The so called political discussions will pass and the allegedly offended will return - we all know that - but the optics of shutting it down or out of Sabrespace does come across like a form of social control over an issue you (or whoever shuts it down) simply doesn't like or wants kept quiet. 

I'm not being "political" here . just saying removing the discussion LOOKS bad much like what a lot of media people said about the NHL's slow response. It is bad optics. 

and there's no hockey to discuss..............

 

The discussion was not removed.  It can be found by those who want to participate.  I'll reiterate my "meanwhile, around the NHL..." comment because discussion about this board's moderation are not discussions about the NHL.  And yes, I realize that I'm not participating in said thread derailment.

[PASabreFan]

27 minutes ago, WildCard said:

If Flagg left, between him, True, and Hoss, that's a lot of good posters leaving because of politics, which is ***** dumb 

Because of politics? No. Flagg can talk about how all growed up he is, but his "farewell, cruel Internet" rant was the stuff of 13-year-olds. I don't like how he's being made out the victim. The r-word was especially toxic.

Sometimes people try too hard for an explanation. People come and go from message boards. Shocker. Was it because mean old PA didn't like Terry? Hardly. Because a debate got nasty or heated or too political? Unlikely.

There were always signs some of these people just weren't cut out for it and are probably better off without it.

Edited August 28, 2020 by PASabreFan

[PerreaultForever]

1 minute ago, PASabreFan said:

Because of politics? No. Flagg can talk about how all growed up he is, but his "farewell, cruel Internet" rant was the stuff of 13-year-olds. I don't like how he's being made out the victim. His post easily could nudge others to leave this board. The r-word was especially toxic.

Sometimes people try too hard for an explanation. People come and go from message boards. Shocker. Was it because mean old PA didn't like Terry? Hardly. Because a debate got nasty or heated or too political? Unlikely.

There were always signs some of these people just weren't cut out for it and are probably better off without it.

Oh come on it's all nonsense. People around here are grown ups (mostly) and internet exits like that are always fake attempts to grandstand and make their point. They leave in a huff, they come back later or come back as a new identity, "leaving" is just the way people try to punctuate their own views with exclamation points. It's all bs. 

 

[Marvin]

I think the balance between including and excluding politics is currently much harder than we think it is.

The players are bringing their politics, sociology, economics, etc. into sports; the people who want to keep it out are SOL.  It's impossible right now.  You can't stop them unless you stop watching.  The only sport I have successfully boycotted is MLB after the 1994 strike.  (No one cares.)

I recommend that we understand that politics of some sort have always been part of the game.  IMHO, that is the only way that we can accept labour strife, sports-based jingoism, and social protests in stride and keep our tempers down and some modicum of sanity when we see the stuff around the game.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

If Flagg left, between him, True, and Hoss, that's a lot of good posters leaving because of politics, which is ***** dumb 

Add MODO to that list, too.

[thewookie1]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Add MODO to that list, too.

I thought he left over the Sabres awfulness 

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, thewookie1 said:

I thought he left over the Sabres awfulness 

Pretty sure he left shortly after the COVID closures.  He had definitely been posting less before that, but posts regarding that seemed to be the final straw.

[Zamboni]

Yea I’m personally posting less and coming to the forum less. I’m apparently in the minority (and I’m fine with it), that I prefer a separation of games being played by highly skilled athletes, and their belief system/political opinion/social-political causes. If the trend continues, I think it will cause me to stop going to and watching hockey. I love the game. And just the game. 
There are so many other outlets in 2020 to express that stuff. I will defend a persons right to say it of course. Just like it’s my right go spend my time and money on whatever I please. 
Again, my personal preference. I’d like it to be kept out of a game. Keep it just that, a game. For a lot of fans, sports is a release, an escape, a break from the countless stresses of everyday life for people. Some (For a moment) escape with cigarettes, some escape with alcohol, some escape with drugs, some escape with food, some escape with playing a sport, and some escape with hunting and fishing, and some escape with watching sports live or on TV. 
And then some like to bully or guilt trip people into thinking the way they think (like they know better) or else they are [insert your favorite flavor of the month name calling word here]. It’s pervasive on many forums on the interwebs. I deal with it as a Mod on a non sporting Website daily. Freedom of choice. Embrace the beauty of it.

Meh. Whatever ...

[Eleven]

"It shouldn't  be a political stance.  It'e doing what's right."  

Kevin Shattenkirk in The Athletic today..      

@nfreemanThis is another instance that the views that you support have plunged America into darkness, and that you're embarrassed about it.  That does NOT mean that every post about sports, where it might intersect with government, is political.  When you censor, it is obviously biased.  

Edited August 29, 2020 by Eleven

[Andrew Amerk]

After 9/11, the game between the Sabres and Rangers carried a lot of symbolism and weight. 

Im curious if people viewed that game as political?

[Marvin]

9 minutes ago, Andrew Amerk said:

After 9/11, the game between the Sabres and Rangers carried a lot of symbolism and weight. 

Im curious if people viewed that game as political?

I sure did.  IMHO, it was a thumb in the eye of the people who attacked us as well as a psychological lift to the country.  Ditto the NFL games the weekend after 9/11 and so on.

[Eleven]

"It shouldn't be a political stance ... It's doing what's right."

Kevin Shattenkirk, in The Athletic, today.

It is NOT about politics, @nfreeman  Your embarrassment at the results of your favorite party being elected does NOT mean that everything else is political.  

Edited August 29, 2020 by Eleven

[Eleven]

7 hours ago, WildCard said:

If Flagg left, between him, True, and Hoss, that's a lot of good posters leaving because of politics, which is ***** dumb 

I don't know why Flagg and True left, even if they did.  But "Hoss" did not leave because of politics.

[shrader]

Meanwhile, around the NHL...

Seeiously, can we at least spin it off into a more appropriate thread? I’m going to have to dig up the old whiskey one of this keeps going. Wait, who am I kidding? I’ll go visit that regardless of what happens here. 

[LTS]

13 hours ago, nfreeman said:

Do you think Labatt felt like your posts were "careful?"  It sure looked like he got offended and left -- which has happened a number of times as a direct result of people (not just you) blasting away with politically-related ad hominem attacks in threads on the main board.  Neo left and now it looks like Flagg has done so as well.

If your point is that discussions of race relations aren't political, I think you're just splitting hairs.

There's a reason the politics club was formed.  Keep it there, please.

 

So, I think to be clear then. It should be stated that sports related, and more to the point, NHL related political issues do not belong in the primary forum but should reside in the politics club. So, when a player makes a political statement, or a network cans a personality over non-NHL related issues, it belong in politics?  I think the line has to be drawn because right now people are not sure. The idea is that athletes are becoming involved in political issues and as such you have the juxtaposition between sports and politics, so things kind of fit in both places.

12 hours ago, Eleven said:

Not everything related to race relations is political.  Most of this wasn't.  Whether someone likes or dislikes a part of a discussion doesn't render the discussion political, either.

LTS, I think.  I don't see the problem, either.

It was I who created the club. Shall we rename it?

10 hours ago, WildCard said:

If Flagg left, between him, True, and Hoss, that's a lot of good posters leaving because of politics, which is ***** dumb 

Well, people get fed up. You don't have to necessarily get to the "politics" of it, but it happened because the NHL dove into the "politics" of it.  I don't know about True and Hoss, but Flagg decided to go off on how non-intellectual people on here are and proclaim himself the superior.  Whatever.  As I said at the time, he was clearly hanging on by a thread every time the simpletons didn't understand the math.

3 hours ago, Andrew Amerk said:

After 9/11, the game between the Sabres and Rangers carried a lot of symbolism and weight. 

Im curious if people viewed that game as political?

And the Sabres vs. Bruins after the Boston Marathon bombing?  It was absolutely political. 100%.  Perhaps people feel there's a difference because it was a unified display of patriotism?  I don't know.  It's still political.  You are correct.

 

[Andrew Amerk]

46 minutes ago, LTS said:

 

And the Sabres vs. Bruins after the Boston Marathon bombing?  It was absolutely political. 100%.  Perhaps people feel there's a difference because it was a unified display of patriotism?  I don't know.  It's still political.  You are correct.

 

Thank you for pointing that one out as well, I’d forgotten about it. 
 

A unified display. Sort of like what people are trying to do now. Interesting. And somehow people were okay with the 9/11 and Boston Marathon unified displays, but not this current one. 

Edited August 29, 2020 by Andrew Amerk