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LGR4GM

Sobotka and the 2nd line

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4 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

It obviously gets on peoples nerves so I'm going to stop harping over and over about Sobotka. I'm ready to watch the games, and I'll have my camera the whole season. That's all I have to say about that 

Noooooo. Keep going! It makes me giggle. Not as much as LGR, though.

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3 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Noooooo. Keep going! It makes me giggle. Not as much as LGR, though.

Sob sucks. 

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2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Sobotka.thumb.jpg.9757670d92b1bd4daf0ef68a8bde9b42.jpg

My hatred for these knows no bounds.

 

Oooh! pretty colors.

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4 hours ago, SwampD said:

My hatred for these knows no bounds.

 

Oooh! pretty colors.

The red-er it is, the more positive the impact, the blue-er it is, the more negative the impact.  In the offensive zone, you want red-er. Since he's more blue, and it's blue-er near the net, he's pretty bad in the offensive zone, and it shows you where he's bad.

In the defensive zone you want blue-er, so he's bad defending in front of the net, and since it's blue-er near the dots, he's better defending on either side of the slot.

Edited by ...
I need another pot of coffee, excuse me.

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9 hours ago, dudacek said:

He's more than a marginal NHL player, he's a symbol of the mediocrity that has mired the franchise for nearly a decade and the general feeling permeating the fan base that things aren't going to get better.

A symbol at best, at worst, a microcosm of unbelievably worrying talent evaluation and roster construction tendencies, systematic of a much larger problem. Or indicative of the desire, or lack thereof, to win this season.

The reason it’s hard to write off as a one-off bad decision that’s somehow being framed by some as even a necessary one to make, that’ll quickly be corrected in time, is because of just how glaringly poor that decision is, knowing what we know about Sobotka. 

For a decision that questionable to be made and not be indicative of a deeper potentially systematic issue seems unlikely to me. It’s that bad.

As others have mentioned, even with the roster as currently constructed there’s no reason for Vlad to be in the lineup let alone on line 2. But the fact the conversation is even being had that arguably the worst NHLer last season may still have a spot on this team seems unfathomable to me from a how-did-Bottetill-not-improve-the-roster-further perspective. 

No one on this board thought he’d even be playing for us this season.

Edited by Thorny
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I remember, faintly, seeing Sobotka and the 2nd Liners in the mid-80s. Wasn’t impressed. They sucked. 

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7 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

It obviously gets on peoples nerves so I'm going to stop harping over and over about Sobotka. I'm ready to watch the games, and I'll have my camera the whole season. That's all I have to say about that 

Please don't stop. Everything you are saying, needs to be said. This is one of the worst players in the league.

Edited by Grinder
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2 hours ago, Thorny said:

A symbol at best, at worst, a microcosm of unbelievable worrying talent evaluation and roster construction tendencies, systematic of a much larger problem. Or indicative of the desire, or lack thereof, to win this season.

The reason it’s hard to write off as a one-off bad decision that’s somehow being framed by some as even a necessary one to make, that’ll quickly be corrected in time, is because of just how glaringly poor that decision is, knowing what we know about Sobotka. 

For a decision that questionable to be made and not be indicative of a deeper potentially systematic issue seems unlikely to me. It’s that bad.

As others have mentioned, even with the roster as currently constructed there’s no reason for Vlad to be in the lineup let alone on line 2. But the fact the conversation is even being had that arguably the worst NHLer last season may still have a spot on this team seems unfathomable to me from a how-did-Bottetill-not-improve-the-roster-further perspective. 

No one on this board thought he’d even be playing for us this season.

***** you're taking all of the stuff i simply wasn't capable of hashing out and beautifully filling in the spaces left in my thoughts. 

Literally every line of this. Like, I wouldn't put Kyle anywhere near our lineup, but there's a difference between why I've hardly reacted to that versus the Sobotka thing, even though they're playing in place of the same sitting player. And this is the reason. I don't hate individual bad decisions on principle, and don't hate coaches trying things out and failing while doing so. But this decision in particular just continues to cement nagging fears about Jason in particular. I don't think my view and Jason's view of good NHL two-way or depth forwards overlaps even an inch. And I"m not saying I'm right or smarter than Jason, or could run/build a hockey team, but like everyone else, I value and defend my own views and the work I put in to develop them.

Show those lines to any Sabre fan fresh off of the season in April and they'd throw something at you. 

1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

He’s a center and his part of the ice is red on defense. That’s not really bad 

Blue indicates fewer shots taken or allowed, so in the defensive zone, you want a lot of blue, a lot of red is bad.

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1 hour ago, triumph_communes said:

He’s a center and his part of the ice is red on defense. That’s not really bad 

Doesn't that mean that's where the shots against are coming from when he's on the ice?

Edit - Flagg beat me to it. 

Thought for a second I had been reading them wrong this whole time 😄

Edited by Thorny

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14 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

Yeah, if you’re reading those colour charts and thinking dark red in front of *your own* goal is “good” ... well, you should read up a bit.

https://hockeyviz.com/howto/shotMap

Thanks for that.  I scanned https://hockeyviz.com/txt/magnusEV to remind myself of what I was looking at and apparently work got in the way of comprehension.

Edited by ...
oopsy

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14 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

He’s a center and his part of the ice is red on defense. That’s not really bad 

lol what? That means or indicates shots. Red means more shots blue less. He's bad on defense as well. 

Let me put it this way, you would have to completely flip the defense and offensive chart to make him useful. They are the exact opposite of what you want. Red is shots, so you want more on the offense and more blue on defense. We don't have that because Sobotka is a trash player. 

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https://theathletic.com/1259329/2019/10/02/as-sabres-reveal-likely-opening-night-pairings-vladimir-sobotka-finds-dubious-spot-on-the-second-line/

While some here are having a heart attack about Vlad playing on our second line, Yerdon outlines some of the reasons why.  

Quote

“It was a look today, again, and we won’t be announcing who we’re playing until game day, but there’s no question that with Marcus back into the center position, with Vladimir there, it gives him some comfort. Also on faceoffs he’s got support and the way they can interchange within that unit also frees Jeff up to do the things that he’s good at,” Krueger said. “So both Vladimir and Marcus are outstanding in puck control and puck movement and we see that combination as a possible line.”

Yerdon quoting HCRK

Also Yerdon talks about how Vlad had some success against the Pens last season and that HCRK is looking to spread the offense out.

Color me not surprised that FO% played a key role in HCRK decision here for now.

PS.  I know that Vlad was arguably the worst forward in the NHL last season.  I'm curious where how other did coming off similar terrible seasons did the following year.

Edited by GASabresIUFAN

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3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

https://theathletic.com/1259329/2019/10/02/as-sabres-reveal-likely-opening-night-pairings-vladimir-sobotka-finds-dubious-spot-on-the-second-line/

While some here are having a heart attack about Vlad playing on our second line, Yerdon outlines some of the reasons why.  

Yerdon quoting HCRK

Also Yerdon talks about how Vlad had some success against the Pens last season and that HCRK is looking to spread the offense out.

Color me not surprised that FO% played a key role in HCRK decision here for now.

 

It almost sounds like a chemistry thing from Johansson. The new A wants Sobotka on his line...

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2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

It almost sounds like a chemistry thing from Johansson. The new A wants Sobotka on his line...

Pretty early to be calling Johansson an ***** IMO

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Merged in a desperate attempt to confine the SDS (Sobotka Derangement Syndrom) to a single thread before it consumes all of us.

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Every year is a new year.  I'm willing to give Sobotka a blank slate.  Maybe a year away from the trade and RFK can make some improvement in him.  Not excited about Sobotka and Kyle as 2 of our 4 RW, but hope springs eternal.  On to Pittsburgh.

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12 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

Merged in a desperate attempt to confine the SDS (Sobotka Derangement Syndrom) to a single thread before it consumes all of us.

All your bases are belong to us. 

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