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Sobotka and the 2nd line


LGR4GM

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Well I mistakenly thought this was a Vlad thread but yes physicality isn't everything, and hits isn't everything and points isn't everything but did you know that Risto is the 9th leading scorer for defensemen in Sabre history and if he lasts the year here, he may jump 1 and possibly 2 spots on that list. I don't think he's quite as bad as some allude here. Norris trophy candidate probably not but he is more an asset to the team than a detriment.

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4 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Why? Reinhart should be getting more picks. He's the better player. He was better last year than lucic ever has been or at least tied with his best. 

No.

When Lucic was at his peak he was a major force on a very good team.  He scored, intimidated and produced in the playoffs.  Reino hasn't approached that level yet.

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9 hours ago, Taro T said:

Your complaint about supressing discussion would carry more weight if the post you were responding to wasn't in direct response to a post that started with "(p)lease stop trying to .." and nearly closed with "(i)t's a loser philosophy to worry about that.". The latter of which demonstrated that you apparently didn't understand the prior discussion.

You conflate two separate points out of context to make your case and then condescend. exactly the type of thing that leads to my (over)reaction. It isn't what I was saying at all.

There are multiple views, and multiple ideas on teams and sports. None of us (you and me and him and her and...whoever) and none of us is an expert. However, there are a select few who believe because they "live" on this board their view(s) are superior to others. 

I suppose I should just let that go, ignore the holier than thou stuff, and maybe you can just ignore my inferior ill informed opinions and we can all just watch the Sabres rise.

But please, don't trade Risto!

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4 hours ago, jsb said:

Well I mistakenly thought this was a Vlad thread but yes physicality isn't everything, and hits isn't everything and points isn't everything but did you know that Risto is the 9th leading scorer for defensemen in Sabre history and if he lasts the year here, he may jump 1 and possibly 2 spots on that list. I don't think he's quite as bad as some allude here. Norris trophy candidate probably not but he is more an asset to the team than a detriment.

But balance is. the ability to have roles and have different players step up when the conditions of a game and the style of the opposition demand it. If you err too far in either direction you have a weakness that can, and will be exploited. If we had other healthy physical players on D or the roster in general I'd consider trading a guy who hits hard, but as we are kind of small and soft overall, losing what little physicality we have would be a big mistake.

Balance, and a 2 way game, that is the key to winning, and so far it appears Kreuger would agree with that idea. 

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8 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Lol what? What message is risto sending? How come in 6 years of sending messages we've never gotten to the playoffs if his physicality matters?

Do you think that Milan Lucic is a good hockey player?

It matters, and you will miss it if it is gone. 

Is Lucic a good hockey player? He was. As the game sped up he became too slow however. When Edmonton signed him I predicted it would lead to their demise and Chiarelli's eventual firing and cap problems. He's a bottom forward now at best, but not necessarily irrelevant in the playoffs. Calgary has some little guys and got banged around pretty good last year come playoff time.he might not be the answer for that, but it might help. I certainly would have preferred him on our roster last year over Nelson if you get my drift.

Even Boston, a tough team, wasn't tough enough against St. Louis. Lucic added to that team on their 4th line might have helped. Not sure. 

It's not about playing Nolan hockey, it's not all about one thing, it's about balance, and the ability to play against everything. 

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5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

You conflate two separate points out of context to make your case and then condescend. exactly the type of thing that leads to my (over)reaction. It isn't what I was saying at all.

There are multiple views, and multiple ideas on teams and sports. None of us (you and me and him and her and...whoever) and none of us is an expert. However, there are a select few who believe because they "live" on this board their view(s) are superior to others. 

I suppose I should just let that go, ignore the holier than thou stuff, and maybe you can just ignore my inferior ill informed opinions and we can all just watch the Sabres rise.

But please, don't trade Risto!

Can somebody explain to me why the proper retort to this isn't 'go #### yourself'?  'Cause that kinda seems like the proper response.  But I've had a couple celebratory' 'pops' so maybe it isn't.  Board rules.

 

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1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Can somebody explain to me why the proper retort to this isn't 'go #### yourself'?  'Cause that kinda seems like the proper response.  But I've had a couple celebratory' 'pops' so maybe it isn't.  Board rules.

 

Because not saying that and being the better man is always the right decision, no matter what a mod thumbs up.

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1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Can somebody explain to me why the proper retort to this isn't 'go #### yourself'?  'Cause that kinda seems like the proper response.  But I've had a couple celebratory' 'pops' so maybe it isn't.  Board rules.

 

Oddly, I felt exactly the same way about your response that led to that post.

I would, much prefer to just talk about the Sabres.

Sobodka's hit was pretty nice. He's playing really well. At times, arguably, better than Sam. Sometimes that so called 2nd line is our best. Hope it continues. 

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2 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oddly, I felt exactly the same way about your response that led to that post.

I would, much prefer to just talk about the Sabres.

Sobodka's hit was pretty nice. He's playing really well. At times, arguably, better than Sam. Sometimes that so called 2nd line is our best. Hope it continues. 

Whatever.

Interestingly, you no longer have a girl as your avatar.

?

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15 minutes ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oddly, I felt exactly the same way about your response that led to that post.

I would, much prefer to just talk about the Sabres.

Sobodka's hit was pretty nice. He's playing really well. At times, arguably, better than Sam. Sometimes that so called 2nd line is our best. Hope it continues. 

Dude still can't pass,  well once tonight... but that doesn't excuse all the fumbles... and he can't shoot.

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1 hour ago, Taro T said:

Whatever.

Interestingly, you no longer have a girl as your avatar.

?

why is that interesting? 

whatever.

1 hour ago, North Buffalo said:

Dude still can't pass,  well once tonight... but that doesn't excuse all the fumbles... and he can't shoot.

he's doing his job. and doing it well. 

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14 hours ago, nfreeman said:

No.

When Lucic was at his peak he was a major force on a very good team.  He scored, intimidated and produced in the playoffs.  Reino hasn't approached that level yet.

Sam's current most productive year is better than Lucic most productive year. 

Risto is going to see a massive drop in points this season btw. His PP time is gone. There goes over 50% of his assists and about 30% of his goals. 

I'd also point out that you could trade him for a good 5v5 producing forward with a physical element thus negating concerns over physicality. 

One last thing. St Louis won the cup because of superior gt and a little luck, not because they had 1 more player than the other team who liked to hit. 

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Oddly, I felt exactly the same way about your response that led to that post.

I would, much prefer to just talk about the Sabres.

Sobodka's hit was pretty nice. He's playing really well. At times, arguably, better than Sam. Sometimes that so called 2nd line is our best. Hope it continues. 

Who would you rather have on your playoff team, Sobotka or Reinhart?

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1 hour ago, inkman said:

Does anyone agree with this?

Nope. A giant chasm of talent between Sam and Vlad.   Sobotka has been an absolute drag on the second line.  I’m still convinced Tage will be a late season call up and get moved to the second line.   He played probably his best game Friday and was still a non-factor in the O-zone.  His open shot in the third was weak sauce.  MoJo and Skinner have had some good shifts together and I like their chemistry but not playing better than the first line.  

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1 hour ago, Broken Ankles said:

Nope. A giant chasm of talent between Sam and Vlad.   Sobotka has been an absolute drag on the second line.  I’m still convinced Tage will be a late season call up and get moved to the second line.   He played probably his best game Friday and was still a non-factor in the O-zone.  His open shot in the third was weak sauce.  MoJo and Skinner have had some good shifts together and I like their chemistry but not playing better than the first line.  

He hasn’t been an absolute drag on that line. He got the puck out of our zone several times creating the rush and he also made A beautiful saucer pass to Skinner right in the slot for a great chance. That line had their share of chances.

 

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I think Sobotka has been a drag on his line offensively. I think he he has been a boost to that line defensively.

His defensive awareness remains good, his creativity and hands remain bad, his physicality and pace have improved.

Im not sure if he has even been net neutral overall, but the fact that he might be is big improvement over last year, when he was an obvious drag. I would like to see that position upgraded, but so far he seems to be holding his own in what Ralph is asking of him.

Other than PK, I cant think of a single thing he does better than Sam. Wait, left-side draws!

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20 hours ago, inkman said:

For him. I guess. He's still abysmal with the puck on his stick. And there is no ***** way he's playing better than Samson. 

The part of the sentence you missed was "at times."  Simply comparing the top two lines, the same wing. Sobodka's role is not to put up big scoring numbers. That's not him. It's to cover defensively for the other 2 should they get caught, and to clear room for the other 2 to do their thing. He's doing that very well. 

imo the 2nd line has been more dominant 5 on 5. Eichel is playing the best he has ever played. Oloffson has shown he has a big shot, but Sam is just ok so far. Maybe I expect too much from him. 

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On 10/13/2019 at 4:45 AM, PerreaultForever said:

The part of the sentence you missed was "at times."  Simply comparing the top two lines, the same wing. Sobodka's role is not to put up big scoring numbers. That's not him. It's to cover defensively for the other 2 should they get caught, and to clear room for the other 2 to do their thing. He's doing that very well. 

imo the 2nd line has been more dominant 5 on 5. Eichel is playing the best he has ever played. Oloffson has shown he has a big shot, but Sam is just ok so far. Maybe I expect too much from him. 

And "just ok so far" is still better than Sobotka "he's doing that very well." 

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