Sobotka and the 2nd line

[Ducky]

Out of our top 6 of Scheif, Wheeler, KC, Laine, Little and Ehlers, it is my opinion that only Little is better defensively.

Chevy won't trade 6m a year Ehlers unless the D coming back is Lindholm or Slavin but I think he holds tight and we die a slow death and don't make the playoffs with this D corps.

Morrissey didn't play the 3rd period yesterday which made 18 year old Ville Heinola the best D man on the team with 3 games of NHL experience...think about that for a second.

If Kuli doesn't have a decent partner he can't carry him and that pairing is horrible. Poink is good offensively but not very good in his own zone (Myers light). Beaulieu is out but I don't think he is any good anyway (7th or 8th D man). Bitetto shouldn't be in the league. I don't mind Poolman as a 3d pairing getting sheltered minutes and playing the PK. Dahlstrom isn't as good as Beaulieu! Niku was in a minor car accident which allowed him to skate on two dyas in TC and I expect him with the team shortly.

So, we have Heinola, Kuli, Poink, Poolman, Beaulieu, Dahlstrom and Potato if Morrissey were to miss any time!!!!!

Edited October 8, 2019 by Ducky

[French Collection]

49 minutes ago, Ducky said:

Out of our top 6 of Scheif, Wheeler, KC, Laine, Little and Ehlers, it is my opinion that only Little is better defensively.

Chevy won't trade 6m a year Ehlers unless the D coming back is Lindholm or Slavin but I think he holds tight and we die a slow death and don't make the playoffs with this D corps.

Morrissey didn't play the 3rd period yesterday which made 18 year old Ville Heinola the best D man on the team with 3 games of NHL experience...think about that for a second.

If Kuli doesn't have a decent partner he can't carry him and that pairing is horrible. Poink is good offensively but not very good in his own zone (Myers light). Beaulieu is out but I don't think he is any good anyway (7th or 8th D man). Bitetto shouldn't be in the league. I don't mind Poolman as a 3d pairing getting sheltered minutes and playing the PK. Dahlstrom isn't as good as Beaulieu! Niku was in a minor car accident which allowed him to skate on two dyas in TC and I expect him with the team shortly.

So, we have Heinola, Kuli, Poink, Poolman, Beaulieu, Dahlstrom and Potato if Morrissey were to miss any time!!!!!

Yeah, I’ve watched two of their games, D is a huge problem. Morrissey and Nike will help but they could use two more decent guys.

[TrueBlueGED]

Here's the thing with Sobotka: even when he's not completely terrible, he adds nothing. He is, at best, net neutral. His best case scenario is Matt Ellis. On a line that's supposed to score. They're simply not going to consistently generate chances with him there. 

[Taro T]

2 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Here's the thing with Sobotka: even when he's not completely terrible, he adds nothing. He is, at best, net neutral. His best case scenario is Matt Ellis. On a line that's supposed to score. They're simply not going to consistently generate chances with him there. 

Well, yeah.  I'd mentioned in the GD thread that on the shift before the PP goal that led to the BJ;s going up 3-2, Johansson had a great individual effort to take the puck from the Sabres blue line into the lower left corner of the BJ's zone and put it in front where Sobotka was standing on the edge of the crease and he made no effort whatsoever to fight to the puck and it was cleared away and turned up into the Sabres zone.

Back in the Sabres zone the puck was in there long enough for Johansson to get swapped for Larsson who after about 45 seconds of the puck being in the Sabres zone moved the puck up along the boards to where Sobotka should've been able to Chip the puck out but lost another board battle.  One more cycle around and then a gassed Dahlin took down Golisano in front of the net resulting in the PP that they went up on.

Nothing horrible individually, but with any hands / battle at all, they could've been up 3-2 or at worst still tied at 2 w/ fresh legs on the ice.

Oh well, regroup and be ready to go Wednesday.  They have 2 consecutive games against teams that typically give them fits.  Get at least a split or better yet 3 points out of 4.  C'mon Krueger, make them make it happen.

[PerreaultForever]

13 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Also what happens when Pilut comes back. Then you have both Pilut and Montour just sitting around potentially? I still some type of trade is on the horizon. 

Pilut will go straight to Rochester. Personally, I do not think he is good enough.

Montour will probably take Joker's place but we might also have an injury or two by then so who knows. 

I'd give Montour away for a RW rather than Risto myself. 

But enough about ERod, he isn't that good either. If that's your solution, it's a bad one. 

[LGR4GM]

7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

1) Pilut will go straight to Rochester. Personally, I do not think he is good enough.

Montour will probably take Joker's place but we might also have an injury or two by then so who knows. 

2) I'd give Montour away for a RW rather than Risto myself. 

3) But enough about ERod, he isn't that good either. If that's your solution, it's a bad one. 

1) He's better than Scandella. That's really all that matters. 

2) Why?

3) He's better than what Vesey has shown us and what Sobotka is. 

10 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Here's the thing with Sobotka: even when he's not completely terrible, he adds nothing. He is, at best, net neutral. His best case scenario is Matt Ellis. On a line that's supposed to score. They're simply not going to consistently generate chances with him there. 

So you are saying Sob is the Matt Ellis of the 2019 Sabres or that Matt Ellis is the Sobotka of hockey players?

[SwampD]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

1) He's better than Scandella. That's really all that matters. 

2) Why?

3) He's better than what Vesey has shown us and what Sobotka is. 

So you are saying Sob is the Matt Ellis of the 2019 Sabres or that Matt Ellis is the Sobotka of hockey players?

Unless he has made a huge jump from last year, Pilut is not better than Scandella.

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Unless he has made a huge jump from last year, Pilut is not better than Scandella.

He absolute is and he was last year until Phil started to ***** with him. 

[SwampD]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

He absolute is and he was last year until Phil started to ***** with him. 

Nope. And I’m sure now you are going to show me a pretty chart where Pilut is way up in the upper right quadrant. After that, we can watch all the tape of him getting pwned along the boards.

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, SwampD said:

Nope. And I’m sure now you are going to show me a pretty chart where Pilut is way up in the upper right quadrant. After that, we can watch all the tape of him getting pwned along the boards.

At least he got the puck out of the zone and helped Risto look decent last year. 

 

nope, that would be a waste of time. 

Edited October 8, 2019 by LGR4GM

[Gatorman0519]

Asplund and Cozens are going to take somebody's spots next year and are an upgrade. Pekar may not be too far behind.  All improvements IMO.  That means if we can acquire one more top 6 forward we may be in business in another year.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Gatorman0519

[Two or less]

15 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Pilut will go straight to Rochester. Personally, I do not think he is good enough.

I fail to see how you came to this conclusion so quickly? Pilut was pretty much a point a game player in the AHL and was a +22 in his first season in North America, which some players it takes some adjustment. He was okay with Buffalo considering he made his NHL debut on one of the worst teams in the league and a team that was a dumpster fire for much of the second part of last season. I don't think anyone has a good handle on how good he could still be but i think it's way too early to count him out. I would rather have him over Scandella right now though. 

As for the Skinner line, so much talk is about moving Sobotka away from that line and i completely agree with that, but they may need to look for a new center for that line too. Johansson has been awful at the faceoff circle this season, as many of the people on here assumed when Kreuger announced he would play center instead of wing, but Johansson is 10-38 at faceoffs this season. 

[Curt]

On 10/7/2019 at 2:05 PM, CallawaySabres said:

Can we please stop trying to trade Risto! His contract is incredible and he is only going to get better as he is going to be used in  more suitable role. Good luck trying to replace the type of game that he offers.....

I think that time has proven that the answer is definitely no.  No, we can not stop trying to trade Ristolainen.

[Ducky]

21 hours ago, French Collection said:

Yeah, I’ve watched two of their games, D is a huge problem. Morrissey and Nike will help but they could use two more decent guys.

No Morrissey tonight...only D man from last year's 6 D is Kuli.

edit ... No Kuli tonight either!!!

Edited October 8, 2019 by Ducky

[PerreaultForever]

10 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

1) He's better than Scandella. That's really all that matters. 

2) Why?

3) He's better than what Vesey has shown us and what Sobotka is. 

1) Disagree. Scandella has looked good so far and I think that will continue. This is a different team/style. One that wants D men to play D. Pilut was a defensive liability in many games last year. He can skate and move the puck, I give you that, but he struggled mightily as a defenseman and after this injury his physicality is called even further into question. 

2) Montour does not have Risto's grit and physicality. This team has more balance and has to continue in that way. This whole Housley notion of everybody playing offense has to go out the window. I'm really not sure if Montour can play good D or not. With Miller being as good as he's shown (had no idea he was this fast and fluid of a skater) I think he's expendible BUT, I don't really want this trade, just saying I'd rather lose him than Risto. 

I personally don't see this wealth of extra D men being a problem. It's pretty refreshing if you ask me. We might need them all. Last year Boston had a stretch where they were missing 5 of their 6 starting D. With the speed of this game D men get banged up a lot. Depth is good.

3) No problem with ERod being tried over Vesey. Vesey so far, is the guy you should be bitching about rather than Sobodka.  

[LGR4GM]

I'll bitch about Sobotka as long as he continues to be the mediocre player he is. 

This notion we should trade Montour is actually crazy. 

[MakeSabresGrr8Again]

1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said:

1) Disagree. Scandella has looked good so far and I think that will continue. This is a different team/style. One that wants D men to play D. Pilut was a defensive liability in many games last year. He can skate and move the puck, I give you that, but he struggled mightily as a defenseman and after this injury his physicality is called even further into question. 

2) Montour does not have Risto's grit and physicality. This team has more balance and has to continue in that way. This whole Housley notion of everybody playing offense has to go out the window. I'm really not sure if Montour can play good D or not. With Miller being as good as he's shown (had no idea he was this fast and fluid of a skater) I think he's expendible BUT, I don't really want this trade, just saying I'd rather lose him than Risto. 

I personally don't see this wealth of extra D men being a problem. It's pretty refreshing if you ask me. We might need them all. Last year Boston had a stretch where they were missing 5 of their 6 starting D. With the speed of this game D men get banged up a lot. Depth is good.

3) No problem with ERod being tried over Vesey. Vesey so far, is the guy you should be bitching about rather than Sobodka.  

I don't disagree with you as we stand today (healthy bodies and all). I think Ralph has done a good job with what's available to him. But who's to say that we can't be better when everyone is healthy? When Montour is back I have faith that RK will be able to utilize him the best that he can. If Montour is better than one of the others (which I think he is) then finding a place in the line-up is what will be done. Same with Pilut (but I think he goes down at least for awhile). Having Miller/ Montour/ Risto on the right is not a bad thing. 

I think that Head Coach Ralph Krueger could adjust or tweak things to accommodate any players available to him and use them properly. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

When Montour returns Joker gets sent down.  

I don’t think there is any cap issue because Montour isn’t on LTIR to make us cap compliant.

[LGR4GM]

Tell me again about how Sobotka is good... 

 

[Curt]

19 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Tell me again about how Sobotka is good... 

 

That chart actually shows Sobotka as a positive player.  Team have more GF than GA when he is on the ice.  Sheary and Vesey are worse there.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Curt

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, Curt said:

That chart actually shows Sobotka as a positive player.  Team have more GF than GA when he is on the ice.  Sheary and Vesey are worse there.

Positive defensive player. He is a very poor offensive player. 

[darksabre]

22 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Tell me again about how Sobotka is good... 

 

Better to be dull than bad.

[Curt]

3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Positive defensive player. He is a very poor offensive player. 

Like Darksabre said, better dull than bad.  It’s 3 games anyway.  Let’s look again after a few more.  Also, for record, Sobotka is bad, just don’t think chart supports that.

Edited October 9, 2019 by Curt

[WildCard]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Better to be dull than bad.

On the 4th line sure. Obviously you know this but the goal should be to be good, not just not bad

Just now, Curt said:

Like Darksabre said, better dull than bad.  It’s 3 games anyway.  Let’s look again after a few more.

He's had a whole career of this. He's scored over 10 goals ONCE in his entire career

[LGR4GM]

2 minutes ago, Curt said:

Like Darksabre said, better dull than bad.  It’s 3 games anyway.  Let’s look again after a few more.

Why? He's almost exactly where he was last year except he's been better defensively. Probably because Johnsson and Skinner generate offense well. 

3 minutes ago, WildCard said:

On the 4th line sure. Obviously you know this but the goal should be to be good, not just not bad

He's had a whole career of this. He's scored over 10 goals ONCE in his entire career

That's the thing. Sobotka is a maybe 10g, 15a guy. 32 year old players don't suddenly explode for points.