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LeBrun: How Krueger plans to unlock the vast potential in Buffalo


dudacek

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5 minutes ago, Thorny said:

It seems that way to me. With those in the know aware of the caveat that maybe we'll get an unexpected "Hey, we are ahead of schedule!" year. But I think that's just a hope, not the plan. 

As for what's after the bolded, I'm a little unclear of your phrasing. What would constitute the pessimism? The belief that this year was about maximizing cap space or the belief that those dregs could actually contribute?

Partially answered in my prior post without having seen your Q.  Just, really feeling like right now that the plan was to have a team that CAN compete ( on a game by game basis, not in a championship contender sort of way) this year but not really caring whether they win a whole lot and actually secretly hoping they finish about 6th from the bottom to get 1 final really high ( top 10) draft pick prior to bringing in a couple of value FA's to supplant what should be a useful Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund, and Jokiharju NEXT season.  Probably even Thompson will be useful next year too.  So, by starting the year with guys like Sobotka in an important role, the rest can learn the system without winning too much and gain confidence in themselves when deadwood is cleared at the deadline.

Hopefully too cynical a view, but just haven't gotten any vibe from J Botts that he wants to really start to make a real playoff push this year.  And am just tired of the losing.  Making a trade in the next couple of days, or sending Sobotka &/or Okposo to Ra-cha-cha after the LTIR kicks in would go a long way towards getting out of this disappointment.

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10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Botterill having the delusion that Eichel will be our Mario falls in line with his delusion that Eichel should elevate his line mates the same way Crosby does, true. 

Well, the word that got autocorrected was Trottier and could see him envisioning Eichel & Reinhart in the roles of Trottier & Francis (who never won anything in Hartford); though Eichel & Reinhart would age-wise be falling into Lemieux' stature (though obviously, neither will be a 200 or player).

Pretty sure he expects the optimal compete timeliness for this team surrounds Dahlin's trajectory, not Sam or Jack's.  Those 2 really don't have all that much older than them that's useful.  Dahlin will have 2 extra top line forwards older than him.

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19 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Partially answered in my prior post without having seen your Q.  Just, really feeling like right now that the plan was to have a team that CAN compete ( on a game by game basis, not in a championship contender sort of way) this year but not really caring whether they win a whole lot and actually secretly hoping they finish about 6th from the bottom to get 1 final really high ( top 10) draft pick prior to bringing in a couple of value FA's to supplant what should be a useful Cozens, Mittelstadt, Asplund, and Jokiharju NEXT season.  Probably even Thompson will be useful next year too.  So, by starting the year with guys like Sobotka in an important role, the rest can learn the system without winning too much and gain confidence in themselves when deadwood is cleared at the deadline.

Hopefully too cynical a view, but just haven't gotten any vibe from J Botts that he wants to really start to make a real playoff push this year.  And am just tired of the losing.  Making a trade in the next couple of days, or sending Sobotka &/or Okposo to Ra-cha-cha after the LTIR kicks in would go a long way towards getting out of this disappointment.

I don't find that to be a cynical view at all, more likely, a realistic view. 

The cynical view would be, what makes THIS next top 10 pick any different, and why should THIS deadline/coming summer be the one where Botterill decides to offload the deadwood you speak of, when he keeps bringing it in/re-signing it. 

We all thought some of that dead weight would be cleared off this past summer, and none of it was. I kind of shudder when people talk about NEXT season, like, more than normal, because that scenario seems to centre around our cap space and what we can do in UFA. Don't think UFA is a great way to build a roster, when teams almost always regret those deals anyways, and Sabres will probably be in a spot where we'd have to overpay beyond that after another losing season. 

- - - 

Regardless of all that, I've said it before, I think the 5th year is when Botterill expects to compete for the playoffs. Once Dahlin is off his ELC. 21-22. 

Edited by Thorny
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34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Franchise centre: Eichel

Franchise defence: Dahlin

Sniper: Skinner (Olofsson?)

Franchise goalie: (Lukkonen?)

2C: O’Reilly ? (Mittelstadt? Cozens?)

Glue guy: Reinhart

Power forward: (Cozens?)

 

Those are the core pieces right? Got a ways to go, but we’re ahead of some and we’ve got the hardest two.

Any optimism I feel comes from that.

 

Lots of hype surrounding Olofsson, Luukkonen, Cozens, and Mittelstadt. We'll see how this plays out, but I'm not holding my breath. 

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18 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Well, the word that got autocorrected was Trottier and could see him envisioning Eichel & Reinhart in the roles of Trottier & Francis (who never won anything in Hartford); though Eichel & Reinhart would age-wise be falling into Lemieux' stature (though obviously, neither will be a 200 or player).

Pretty sure he expects the optimal compete timeliness for this team surrounds Dahlin's trajectory, not Sam or Jack's.  Those 2 really don't have all that much older than them that's useful.  Dahlin will have 2 extra top line forwards older than him.

Totally agreed. Friedman's quote about Botterill wanting to "tear it down to the studs" and that Dahlin would make that easiest rings more true than ever. Lines up exactly with that 5th year idea. 

I always found that "makes it easiest" curious phrasing. The longest believable plan that could be sold to ownership, sounds like. Dahlin certainly afforded the reasonable conception of that new timeline. 

Edited by Thorny
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16 minutes ago, Thorny said:

- - - 

Regardless of all that, I've said it before, I think the 5th year is when Botterill expects to compete IN the playoffs.

FIFY.

I think he expects to compete for the playoffs this year. Even more so after reading his quotes to Lebrun.

He just isn't going to sacrifice any futures to make that happen.

Which is probably why we got the summer we got.

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2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

FIFY.

I think he expects to compete for the playoffs this year. Even more so after reading his quotes to Lebrun.

He just isn't going to sacrifice any futures to make that happen.

Which is probably why we got the summer we got.

I think the plan is to compete next season. This season I think is a punt year. 

Should have said 5th year IN though, you are right. I think that year (21-22) will be the first the playoffs are the EXPECTATION. 

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1 hour ago, Thorny said:

McDavid might be the best player of all time and his team is complete garbage. One player doesn't matter on their own in hockey. 

Maybe Hasek.  

Slightly off topic, but the fact Hasek made that much of a difference on this team might make him the best player of all time.  Put Gretzky or Lemieux in their 20's on that team for 4-6 years instead of Hasek and replace him with a middling Goaltender, and I think they aren't as good as they are with Hasek.  Frustrating to me that most of the Canadian media still puts Hasek as the third best goaltender of his era, behind Roy and Brodeur (he had the misfortune of NOT being born in Canada.)

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2 minutes ago, mjd1001 said:

Slightly off topic, but the fact Hasek made that much of a difference on this team might make him the best player of all time.  Put Gretzky or Lemieux in their 20's on that team for 4-6 years instead of Hasek and replace him with a middling Goaltender, and I think they aren't as good as they are with Hasek.  Frustrating to me that most of the Canadian media still puts Hasek as the third best goaltender of his era, behind Roy and Brodeur (he had the misfortune of NOT being born in Canada.)

Certainly he should be in the conversation for most impactfulThe position he plays almost gives him an unfair advantage though. 

I agree he should be ahead of those 2 goalies, at least on raw talent. 

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2 hours ago, Taro T said:

Krueger says all the right things and connected people rave about him. 

And then he goes and puts Sobotka on the 2nd scoring line. 

Soon enough we'll see if decisions like that make him an idiot savant or merely an idiot. ?

And somebody that's being pursued to take a CEO of hockey operations role (as implied in the article) but chooses instead to be a coach would seem to be one or the other.

1) Our problems greatly exceed mere "effort".

2) Many of the names that have showed a refusal to work hard under several coaches now are still on the team.  Not sure why Krueger has the magic key to unlock that hidden work ethic.  I realize he did publish a motivational self-help book in French and German, but...

(PS:  I didn't read the article; I don't have access to it or else I would have).

 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Kruppstahl said:

1) Our problems greatly exceed mere "effort".

2) Many of the names that have showed a refusal to work hard under several coaches now are still on the team.  Not sure why Krueger has the magic key to unlock that hidden work ethic.  I realize he did publish a motivational self-help book in French and German, but...

(PS:  I didn't read the article; I don't have access to it or else I would have).

 

 

 

The problems I've seen with this team are rarely effort related. It's talent deficiency related. See Vladimir Sobotka.  The puck hits his stick and immediately turns into ashes. I've never seen a player so inept.  I think Rob Ray had more talent than 17.  The fact they are parading him around in the top 6 is a serious indictment of their talent evaluation.  He's the worst player I've seen in organized sport. I want to contract measles and rub myself all over him. That's how much I can't stand this chump in the line up. 

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3 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

And what exactly is that fruit?  The crab apple of a wildcard berth?  Or the Red Delicious of a deep Stanley Cup run?

Who knows. The point is that things are on a longer timeline than fans like and it's always been and will be that way.

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3 hours ago, Taro T said:

Botterill came from an organization whose owner was the guy that was the prize for the "original tank" race in '85 who was on horrible teams until fairly shortly before their 1st Stanley Cup win in '92 in his 7th season.

And early on Pegula said he wanted to model the franchise on the Red Wings organization, whose franchise center, Steve Yzerman, didn't win a Cup until his 14th season. 

john mayer waiting GIF

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2 hours ago, inkman said:

The problems I've seen with this team are rarely effort related.

I disagree with you on this point, my friend.

In the last 10, 13, whatever... years, good hustle, close the gap, take time and space away.  That part of the game is all about effort.  When the Sabres do that, they've played well.  When they haven't (and XHCPH never made them do it), they've been hot trash.  Have a 3rd line and 4th line that doesn't let the other team take a shift off (and hands possession off to a scoring line) and even if the hustling scrubs don't score, they wear down the other team so the top lines can score.

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6 hours ago, dudacek said:

“What’s unpredictable about teams trying to learn how to win is when, or if ever, it happens. It rarely happens in a smooth arc. There are twists and turns. Think about the long journeys for Washington and St. Louis — perennial contenders and playoff heartbreak for a decade or so — before finally winning it all.

Just on a side note, I thought this part was a bit of odd writing. He's talking about teams learning how to win not being a smooth arc then references 2 teams who certainly had learned how to win. Not to win the cup yet, but they were in a totally different stages as franchises. 

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6 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Just on a side note, I thought this bit was a bit odd. He's talking about teams learning how to win not being a smooth arc then references 2 teams who certainly had learned how to win. Not to win the cup yet, but they were in a totally different stage as a franchise. 

I took as a simple hedging his bets.

His basically saying St. Louis looked like ***** just months before they won the cup, and it took Washington years of disappointments before they graduated  to champs.

So “trust me, the Sabres are on the right path, just don’t ask me when it will all come together.”

Edited by dudacek
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10 hours ago, Doohickie said:

And early on Pegula said he wanted to model the franchise on the Red Wings organization, whose franchise center, Steve Yzerman, didn't win a Cup until his 14th season. 

john mayer waiting GIF

I swear you've got this nugget saved somewhere ready to cut and paste. I could cut and paste my obvious retort about Pegula not having the good judgment of Ilitch, but I won't.

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