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The Krueger Crux? "Not thinking out there"

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2 minutes ago, ... said:

So, my question, respectfully, is what are trying to get at? 

Maybe I'll answer my own question:

"I remain convinced that any "system dive" for a new coach is simply a regurgitation of hockey tactics universally seen as good and desirable. Like sizzle cautions, until we have enough games to where we can see tendencies on tape, we will continue repeating pillars of solid hockey fundamentals over and over again as if the last coach obviously had no idea what they are."

"...that just kinda explains why some of us sound like poopy pants right now. It's 100% reservation rather than truly believing Krueger is going to suck or anything."

Right. Or should I say: RIGHT! I guess I'm confused as to where you are feeling pressured about this. It's okay that you're not buying in.  I haven't bought in, either.  

Edited by ...

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24 minutes ago, ... said:

Maybe I'll answer my own question:

"I remain convinced that any "system dive" for a new coach is simply a regurgitation of hockey tactics universally seen as good and desirable. Like sizzle cautions, until we have enough games to where we can see tendencies on tape, we will continue repeating pillars of solid hockey fundamentals over and over again as if the last coach obviously had no idea what they are."

"...that just kinda explains why some of us sound like poopy pants right now. It's 100% reservation rather than truly believing Krueger is going to suck or anything."

Right. Or should I say: RIGHT! I guess I'm confused as to where you are feeling pressured about this. It's okay that you're not buying in.  I haven't bought in, either.  

Massive articles writing about basic hockey concepts as if there's something novel going on THIS time around, mainly, driving fan discussion here and elsewhere that's far more platitude than substantive. The parallels to the things being said this time two years ago are so jarring that it was worth going back and comparing, and the comparison didn't disappoint. 

Not feeling pressured, but I'm dropping these massive word blobs because of how, to overuse this word some more, "cringe," these articles come off because of how fresh the last batch still is. I honestly couldn't even finish reading some of those paragraph excerpts 

And I don't think it's just me feeling that way, based on Thorny and Doohickie's thoughts on the topic, they're posting about it just as agitated as me, so I think there's something to that

But maybe my perceived "pressured feeling" also comes from the fact that I don't want to like dissuade any discussion or anything, in pooping on some of the concepts 

Edited by Randall Flagg
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There's a British show that airs here on CBC called Grand Designs who's host now always reminds me of Ralph. So I always expect Ralph to have a Brit accent when he talks. 

grandesigns_3044858b.thumb.jpg.539e42028c640eaabb23f02ce82473c7.jpg

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There is one quote in the nhl.com article that I found interesting, specifically referencing zone coverage in the defensive zone versus man coverage. Phil was definitely more of a man coverage guy, I saw McCabe follow guys out to the point more than once. I have no idea the general pros and cons of either defense strategy though. I thought our team defense as a whole was pretty average rather than bad

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I fully understand I lack the knowledge about high-level coaching to give much weight to my own opinion, but I've never seen hockey as a chess match full of feints and misdirection like football with a coach acting as the grand puppet master; it’s too fast and too random.

I think there are a handful of philosophies for things like breakouts, zone entries and special teams and at the top level they are all known. And with some variation, most teams are using their pick of the same basic known tactics and not mixing them up much over the course of a season, let alone a game.

A good tactician can out-game-plan his opponent over a seven game series, but the variables over the course of the regular season are too vast to matter much more than having Jake McCabe on your second pairing over Marco Scandella.

Where the coach matters most during the regular season is in having his players believing in themselves and their teammates and being ready to play from game 1 to game 82, and in playing the right players in the right situations to maximize our chances of winning.

Tactics are the third line of NHL coaching, less important than the management of people.

The first line will always be talent..

Edited by dudacek
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10 hours ago, dudacek said:

The first line will always be talent..

The coach's talent?

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One of the things that helped doom Housley was he did stupid things like cling to a veteran like Sobotka even though he was getting caved in each night. We could argue that roster construction was to blame but in the end Phil failed at utilizing his roster. Erod sat and got less ice time for stretches while Sobotka got caved in. That is just one example. If it really is "earn your spot" than vets should be prepared to sit and not play if they aren't good enough. 

The one takeaway I have from Krueger is that accountability is a thing for him. He doesn't come out and say it but he seems to want the players to be accountable. How he manages and reinforces that will be key. If Risto had been benched after his second straight toss the puck up the boards and out play, maybe he would have learned by now to stop for a second and see if you are actually under pressure. He would be responsible for his actions. 

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1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

One of the things that helped doom Housley was he did stupid things like cling to a veteran like Sobotka even though he was getting caved in each night. We could argue that roster construction was to blame but in the end Phil failed at utilizing his roster. Erod sat and got less ice time for stretches while Sobotka got caved in. That is just one example. If it really is "earn your spot" than vets should be prepared to sit and not play if they aren't good enough. 

The one takeaway I have from Krueger is that accountability is a thing for him. He doesn't come out and say it but he seems to want the players to be accountable. How he manages and reinforces that will be key. If Risto had been benched after his second straight toss the puck up the boards and out play, maybe he would have learned by now to stop for a second and see if you are actually under pressure. He would be responsible for his actions. 

I was a huge 'anyone but Sobotka' guy, but they were just as bad at the end of the season when Sobotka was out.  The team throughout struggled.

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4 minutes ago, triumph_communes said:

I was a huge 'anyone but Sobotka' guy, but they were just as bad at the end of the season when Sobotka was out.  The team throughout struggled.

Sobotka was below replacement level. He was so bad that I think he was almost dead last in WAR last season. Sobotka shouldn't even be at camp and if he has a roster spot in October, this team is *****. 

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59 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Sobotka was below replacement level. He was so bad that I think he was almost dead last in WAR last season. Sobotka shouldn't even be at camp and if he has a roster spot in October, this team is *****. 

 I think that’s an exaggeration to say the team is screwed. He alone won’t determine their record. And regardless of how you feel, Sobotka will be at camp. He now has a lot of competition to keep his roster spot. Unlike last year. Let’s hope a rookie blows him away in camp and JB waives Sobotka. Wishful thinking.

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56 minutes ago, Zamboni said:

 I think that’s an exaggeration to say the team is screwed. He alone won’t determine their record. And regardless of how you feel, Sobotka will be at camp. He now has a lot of competition to keep his roster spot. Unlike last year. Let’s hope a rookie blows him away in camp and JB waives Sobotka. Wishful thinking.

The team is screwed if Sobotka plays for them. He should be nowhere near the roster or the team. If he plays 14minutes a night, that is 14minutes of the other team getting prime possession and scoring chances. He has no place on this roster. 

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48 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

The team is screwed if Sobotka plays for them. He should be nowhere near the roster or the team. If he plays 14minutes a night, that is 14minutes of the other team getting prime possession and scoring chances. He has no place on this roster. 

Seriously. I like some of our moves, but every, single, reason that this team collapsed the way it did is going to be at training camp, which IMO is pretty eyebrow-raising. 

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1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

Seriously. I like some of our moves, but every, single, reason that this team collapsed the way it did is going to be at training camp, which IMO is pretty eyebrow-raising. 

Pegula. Check. Botterill. Check. They didn't believe in a team that won 10 straight games. Bet Terry has a hard-on for his Bills after they "overcame" four turnovers to beat the Jets.

Edited by PASabreFan

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12 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Pegula. Check. Botterill. Check. They didn't believe in a team that won 10 straight games. Bet Terry has a hard-on for his Bills after they "overcame" four turnovers to beat the Jets.

They still haven’t filled the Berglund hole. He traded for him so he obviously thought we needed him, yet they’ve never supplemented the C ice position since he left. Don’t really get that. 

Edited by Thorny

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Regarding the discussion of Housley vs Kreuger.  It’s very likely that they have basically similar strategies for how they would like the team to play.  

The problem with Housley was never that his system was terrible, it was that (1) he was apparently unable to get players to consistently execute it effectively, (2) he leaned on a few very bad players, and (3) the roster he was given was not that good.  Some of those are interrelated.

The hope with Krueger is that he will be able to implement his system more effectively and get players to consistently execute it properly, he will utilize the players he is given better, and also that the roster he is given will be better.

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Yes, I don’t think it should a surprise that Jason is hiring another coach who espouses the same style. It was one of the things that attracted him to Housley.

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On 9/11/2019 at 9:50 PM, dudacek said:

I fully understand I lack the knowledge about high-level coaching to give much weight to my own opinion, but I've never seen hockey as a chess match full of feints and misdirection like football with a coach acting as the grand puppet master; it’s too fast and too random.

I think there are a handful of philosophies for things like breakouts, zone entries and special teams and at the top level they are all known. And with some variation, most teams are using their pick of the same basic known tactics and not mixing them up much over the course of a season, let alone a game.

A good tactician can out-game-plan his opponent over a seven game series, but the variables over the course of the regular season are too vast to matter much more than having Jake McCabe on your second pairing over Marco Scandella.

Where the coach matters most during the regular season is in having his players believing in themselves and their teammates and being ready to play from game 1 to game 82, and in playing the right players in the right situations to maximize our chances of winning.

Tactics are the third line of NHL coaching, less important than the management of people.

The first line will always be talent..

I wanted to give this a bump and tip of the hat.

And, yes, I continue to be fascinated by what Jurgen Klopp has done at Liverpool. He's as much as a guru as anything.

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1 hour ago, Brawndo said:

 

Any guesstimates on how long it takes some enterprising soul to make a Sabres video or gif along the lines of the Disconnected Controller Ovechkin gif?

 

And does this mean Fortnight Laine is on his way?

 

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I saw the Okposo quote about everyone wanting to “run through a wall” after they heard RaKru’s big speech.

(Shades of Teddy Nolan.)

Hey - hope for the best!!

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Such a great pic 

Edited by Thorny
Need a photoshop by someone with skillz

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I like RK so far, and I of course hope his approach works, but until I see it on the ice I find myself agreeing with the other cynical souls who have said upthread that it just sounds like more empty sloganeering.

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