Tage-ing the Thompson: Expectations

[LGR4GM]

Craig Rivet is making an argument on the instigators that Tage Thompson will be a contributor to this team this year. He means in a positive way. His big argument is that Tage was still growing into his body and will have made great strides this offseason.

"He will come in stronger after this offseason and be able to use his strength" is roughly what Rivet said. 

What do we think? Is Tage going to surprise us or be more of the same?

Edited August 30, 2019 by LGR4GM

[darksabre]

I'm firmly in the maybe camp. Thompson's biggest problem last year was that he was big, but not particularly strong on his skates. 205lbs at 6'-6" is...light.

I don't know what kind of gains are possible in one off-season, but he needs to add like 25lbs.

[WildCard]

[GASabresIUFAN]

18 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Craig Rivet is making an argument on the instigators that Tage Thompson will be a contributor to this team this year. He means in a positive way. His big argument is that Tage was still growing into his body and will have made great strides this offseason.

"He will come in stronger after this offseason and be able to use his strength" is roughly what Rivet said. 

What do we think? Is Tage going to surprise us or be more of the same?

I’ve been saying for months that Tage needs to physically mature into his 6’6” frame and that will take time.  That said, like Mitts he should continue to improve.  My guess is he doesn’t make the team out of camp, but instead starts hot in the AHL and then comes up and stays.  Kind of like Pommers did back in the day. 

We need him to play a physical game and add scoring longterm.  Kind of like what Girgensons does but with more O.

 

Edited August 30, 2019 by GASabresIUFAN

[Derrico]

I understand how unpopular this opinion is but Tage will be a bigger contributor this season than most expect.  Between him being one of the bigger pieces of a terrible trade (not his fault) and the way the whole team went last year it’s not surprising he’s already a whipping boy.  I’m excited to see him show some development this year as the vast majority of young players do early in their careers.

[LGR4GM]

I should probably give my opinion as OP. I think Tage goes 1 of 2 ways (sorry). He either recognizes that he was trash last year and works very hard to bulk up and fix his game. He was too slow to execute passes and shots. His decision making was questionable. His quickness/agility was bad. If he works on these he could contribute and be useful. We saw some glimpses at the prospects tourney so maybe he will. The other way is that he thinks the problems were largely due to his playing time or linemates or basically other factors and he just needs another opportunity. In this scenario he still works on the problem areas but they aren't in his mind why he failed. This leads him to flame out because he just can't comprehend that he is the problem. I hope that it is #1 but even if it is, he might take another 2 years to grow up. I see the skill but just like Mittelstadt, skill alone isn't enough. 

[Derrico]

It’s tough to properly evaluate some of these guys based on last year imo.  I’m really not trying to make excuses for these guys but it’s also tough to do anything but trash playing with guys like sobotka and the ghost of pommers.  This team is one more top 6 away from having acceptable level talent through the top 12 forwards.  Not earth shattering but not chalked full of AHLers and washed up guys either.  How he does this season will really sway my opinion of him.  He showed enough to me that if he’s playing with competent players he will be fine. 

[Randall Flagg]

36 minutes ago, darksabre said:

I'm firmly in the maybe camp. Thompson's biggest problem last year was that he was big, but not particularly strong on his skates. 205lbs at 6'-6" is...light.

I don't know what kind of gains are possible in one off-season, but he needs to add like 25lbs.

That problem was definitely second to his ability to process the game at NHL speeds.

[LGR4GM]

5 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

That problem was definitely second to his ability to process the game at NHL speeds.

He reminded me of Tyler Myers at times, not in a good way. 

[dudacek]

7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

That problem was definitely second to his ability to process the game at NHL speeds.

This. He has NHL skill, he has the frame to add NHL strength and it seems like he is a good kid. 

He just could not process at the NHL pace. 

 

I really can’t say how that will translate this year. The fact he put up a point a game in the minors at 21 and did the same at 18 and 19 in college is pretty impressive. He’s a real good test of Botterill’s commitment to development, because there is a lot there to work with and a lot of work that needs to be done.

Edited August 30, 2019 by dudacek

[Taro T]

Not sure if he gets it this year or not.  But, if he's on the big club, SOMEBODY needs to write a song ( it can be an instrumental) for him along the lines of "Baby Elephant Walk.". He needs to come out onto the ice to " Baby Giraffe Skate."

[...]

I think Tage and Mitts both bring up an interesting part of being a NHL player that seems to get lost in the discussion of the physical game and stats and such.

I think both of these guys need cognitive development - both need to "process the game" better.  How do they develop these guys cognitively other than by making them play in games?  Are there specialists in this area?  I'm not talking about sports-psychologists, but rather people who specialize in mental training?

[PASabreFan]

Loaded question. "Bad again"? I don't think he was bad. He showed me a lot. Did we not see a one-timer that seemed to defy physics (until Randall got hold of it)?

You can't preach prospects and then quit on them after one season.

TT will be o'tay.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

I really don't know what to make of him.  He has the size, but needs to add some muscle.  Even if he does it may not help with what really needs to be developed, which is, as others have mentioned, transitioning to the pace of the game at the NHL level.  He may not be able to get his head there.

Also, still think his name is rather silly, but it has grown on my somewhat.

[LGR4GM]

12 minutes ago, PASabreFan said:

Loaded question. "Bad again"? I don't think he was bad. He showed me a lot. Did we not see a one-timer that seemed to defy physics (until Randall got hold of it)?

You can't preach prospects and then quit on them after one season.

TT will be o'tay.

Which you are you referring too? 

 

And he was bad. His goals above replacement was at Sobotka level. 

[Curt]

I would say more of the same, but maybe slightly better. 

To reach his potential, he needs to get quite a but stronger/bigger, that takes time.  It's pretty tough to add 25 pounds of muscle in 5 months, so I'm not expecting that.  That often takes guys a few years.

I'll echo what Randall said, and add that I'm not convinced that he has the "hockey IQ" to be a high level NHLer.  He could top out as a bottom-6 guy if that part of his game doesn't develop as well.  I wouldn't been shocked if he ended up a 15 goal, 25-30 point 3rd/4th liner.

[SwampD]

14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Which you are you referring too? 

 

And he was bad. His goals above replacement was at Sobotka level. 

On a real team he would have played on the AHL team all year and we would be unbelievably excited to see what he would do this year.

He may have been bad compared to your expectations, but not to mine.

TT will  be fine.

[msw2112]

This whole thread begs the question whether Thompson would have benefited from a full season in the AHL last year.  Everyone here seems to agree that he has physical attributes that could translate to a quality NHL player and it all hinges on his development, both physically (bulking up and filling out his frame) and mentally (learning to process the game at NHL speeds).  Do the Sabres take a mulligan and send him down to the "A" this season?

[Randall Flagg]

He was a bad NHL hockey player in the 2018-19 season, but that speaks more to the Buffalo Sabres than it does to him, and says little about what his development this summer and going forward may hold.

Edited August 30, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[dudacek]

1 hour ago, ... said:

I think Tage and Mitts both bring up an interesting part of being a NHL player that seems to get lost in the discussion of the physical game and stats and such.

I think both of these guys need cognitive development - both need to "process the game" better.  How do they develop these guys cognitively other than by making them play in games?  Are there specialists in this area?  I'm not talking about sports-psychologists, but rather people who specialize in mental training?

I think this is the likeliest answer to our nagging question of “why was Tage (and Casey) kept in the NHL all year?”

While many of us may disagree, it’s pretty clear that the Sabres thought playing in the NHL was what was best for their long-term development. You could make the argument that Casey was on the team because he was one of our four best centres, but that’s a lot harder argument to make for Tage.

I would suspect you don’t improve your processing speed being challenged by people with lesser processing speed, you do it by being forced to play at a higher pace. The question is defining where the increased pace becomes overwhelming and therefore counterproductive.

 

[...]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

I would suspect you don’t improve your processing speed being challenged by people with lesser processing speed, you do it by being forced to play at a higher pace. The question is defining where the increased pace becomes overwhelming and therefore counterproductive.

I think that baptism-by-fire is a tried-and-true method.  The counterproductive part is that their confidence could take a hit, and then that needs its own rehabilitation.  I also would suspect that they might learn coping strategies rather than proper productive and efficient game-processing strategies that would need to be fixed as well.  

There has to be some sort of computer-aided mental training they could do to augment the in-game cognitive development, alongside classroom stuff and video training (the latter of which, obviously, we know they do already).

Edited August 30, 2019 by ...
Carl Jung

[#freejame]

If Tage (and Casey for that matter) does succeed this year, does it vindicate Botts decision to keep them in the NHL last year? 

I think it’s likely Botts felt being the best players in the AHL wouldn’t be as beneficial as struggling in the NHL. 

[LGR4GM]

I talk about passengers versus drivers but here is basically the same concept. Tage Thompson was one of the worst passengers in the NHL last year along with Vlad Sobotka. 

https://www.tsn.ca/carriers-and-the-carried-unduly-affecting-their-teams-1.1357943

[SwampD]

1 hour ago, LGR4GM said:

I talk about passengers versus drivers but here is basically the same concept. Tage Thompson was one of the worst passengers in the NHL last year along with Vlad Sobotka. 

https://www.tsn.ca/carriers-and-the-carried-unduly-affecting-their-teams-1.1357943

Kind of a dumb article.

So, good players are better at hockey than bad players,... mmmmm K.

Wonder if anyone has ever thought of that before?

[WildCard]

3 hours ago, PASabreFan said:

Loaded question. "Bad again"? I don't think he was bad. He showed me a lot. Did we not see a one-timer that seemed to defy physics (until Randall got hold of it)?

You can't preach prospects and then quit on them after one season.

TT will be o'tay.

He was objectively awful