Forward Next Year - Casey Mittelstadt

[dudacek]

10 minutes ago, Thorny said:

He's not close to the defensive nightmare Vesey is though. 

As for Olofsson replacing Pominville, like in a general sense? Or you think he gets a shot on the top line? I'm still not convinced we'll see him tried at RW. 

I mean that Sheary Okposo Pominville and Thompson were supposed to be our middle four wingers last year and they all generally failed at the job.

It’s probably more accurate to say Johansson is replacing Pominville, and Olofsson and Vesey are making the other three fight for their jobs. I just think Pominville had to go to make space for Olofsson who is a similar player, but hopefully much better.

[Randall Flagg]

I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but I don't know how to move posts over to different threads.

The idea of who plays "shutdown D" without Risto is interesting. 

We really don't have a Stralman pairing, or a Hjalmarsson pairing, or a McDonagh-Cernak for a more recent example. Parayko, etc. 

Pittsburgh in their recent cup wins also didn't have anyone you could plunk on this roster and confidently say "there's the guy/pair." Toronto's last three seasons saw this too. Both of these teams have seen levels of success we'd kill for - the question might not be "who is our shutdown guy." 

What moves can we make the rest of this summer to ensure that we're dictating OUR game to other teams, and they're going to have to outscore US, take the puck AWAY from us first? Because our defense, for its lack of Parayko-esque shutdown abilities, should be able to sling pucks all day. We need to make sure the forwards can do something with them. With the current roster setup, there is certainly a possibility to get to a point where we can find significant success while still trying to solve that problem. It likely won't win us a cup, but Toronto hasn't won a cup either, and I'd love to be dealing from a position of trying to jump up from 100 point regular seasons and first round exits. With a Dahlin in the cards. And I feel that the work of Gallant in Vegas shows that to some degree you can create team defense that's greater than the sum of its parts - maybe Krueger can work some magic along the way. 

Though I get the concern people have for not having on the back end what Risto represents, I do wonder if the path of least resistance involves focusing the next big move or two on something completely different to emphasize what we have, rather than try to do patchwork on one of our several theoretical roster holes, possibly not the most important one.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Randall Flagg

[Thorny]

1 hour ago, Randall Flagg said:

I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but I don't know how to move posts over to different threads.

The idea of who plays "shutdown D" without Risto is interesting. 

We really don't have a Stralman pairing, or a Hjalmarsson pairing, or a McDonagh-Cernak for a more recent example. Parayko, etc. 

Pittsburgh in their recent cup wins also didn't have anyone you could plunk on this roster and confidently say "there's the guy/pair." Toronto's last three seasons saw this too. Both of these teams have seen levels of success we'd kill for - the question might not be "who is our shutdown guy." 

What moves can we make the rest of this summer to ensure that we're dictating OUR game to other teams, and they're going to have to outscore US, take the puck AWAY from us first? Because our defense, for its lack of Parayko-esque shutdown abilities, should be able to sling pucks all day. We need to make sure the forwards can do something with them. With the current roster setup, there is certainly a possibility to get to a point where we can find significant success while still trying to solve that problem. It likely won't win us a cup, but Toronto hasn't won a cup either, and I'd love to be dealing from a position of trying to jump up from 100 point regular seasons and first round exits. With a Dahlin in the cards. And I feel that the work of Gallant in Vegas shows that to some degree you can create team defense that's greater than the sum of its parts - maybe Krueger can work some magic along the way. 

Though I get the concern people have for not having on the back end what Risto represents, I do wonder if the path of least resistance involves focusing the next big move or two on something completely different to emphasize what we have, rather than try to do patchwork on one of our several theoretical roster holes, possibly not the most important one.

Is the problem you are referencing forwards who "can do something [with the puck]" or the lack of "shut down" guy? If it's the latter, not only do I agree it's not strictly necessary for now, your Pittsburgh example proves it's may not be strictly necessary ever, particularly considering Dahlin should develop that added dimension anyways.

---

I simply cannot wait until the days where we get to watch Dahlin for sometimes nearly 30 minutes (or more given OT) a night during a playoff run. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Thorny

[Randall Flagg]

19 minutes ago, Thorny said:

Is the problem you are referencing forwards who "can do something [with the puck]" or the lack of "shut down" guy? If it's the latter, not only do I agree it's not strictly necessary for now, your Pittsburgh example proves it's may not be strictly necessary ever, particular considering Dahlin should develop that added dimension anyways.

---

I simply cannot wait until the days where we get to watch Dahlin for sometimes nearly 30 minutes (or more given OT) a night during a playoff run. 

The shut down problem, there. 

Our forwards, in the offensive zone, need to rejoin the rest of the NHL. The D, while not well-rounded, doesn't face that same task

[Thorny]

2 hours ago, dudacek said:

How could you not want to be wrong about Vesey? You’ve been one of his strongest critics.

What were Pominville’s metrics away from Jack? How has Vesey done with franchise centres?

I haven’t seen Vesey enough to have an opinion on how good he is. I know his analytics are bad but I don’t know their context. I know he can score even strength goals with crappy linemates, so I have some mild hope he will be better than Pominville, who could only score with Jack. 

Pominville was the definition of replacement level player last year. He had to be replaced, although personally I think his replacement will be Olofsson. I see Vesey as a challenge to Thompson and Sheary.

But what about my avatar, that has to count for something. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by Thorny

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, Randall Flagg said:

I know this has nothing to do with the thread, but I don't know how to move posts over to different threads.

The idea of who plays "shutdown D" without Risto is interesting. 

We really don't have a Stralman pairing, or a Hjalmarsson pairing, or a McDonagh-Cernak for a more recent example. Parayko, etc. 

Pittsburgh in their recent cup wins also didn't have anyone you could plunk on this roster and confidently say "there's the guy/pair." Toronto's last three seasons saw this too. Both of these teams have seen levels of success we'd kill for - the question might not be "who is our shutdown guy." 

What moves can we make the rest of this summer to ensure that we're dictating OUR game to other teams, and they're going to have to outscore US, take the puck AWAY from us first? Because our defense, for its lack of Parayko-esque shutdown abilities, should be able to sling pucks all day. We need to make sure the forwards can do something with them. With the current roster setup, there is certainly a possibility to get to a point where we can find significant success while still trying to solve that problem. It likely won't win us a cup, but Toronto hasn't won a cup either, and I'd love to be dealing from a position of trying to jump up from 100 point regular seasons and first round exits. With a Dahlin in the cards. And I feel that the work of Gallant in Vegas shows that to some degree you can create team defense that's greater than the sum of its parts - maybe Krueger can work some magic along the way. 

Though I get the concern people have for not having on the back end what Risto represents, I do wonder if the path of least resistance involves focusing the next big move or two on something completely different to emphasize what we have, rather than try to do patchwork on one of our several theoretical roster holes, possibly not the most important one.

You know, we’ve been focused on the forwards, most specifically 2C when we have been discussing “roster surgery.” 

Perhaps Its Botterill’s opinion that the team’s biggest problem is a lack of defencemen who can flip the ice and add to the attack, and that own zone coverage and 2ndary scoring up front will look a lot better with that resolved. He’s invested the equivalent of two 1sts and 2 2nds into Miller, Montour and Jokiharju and may be poised to replace Risto with Gardiner.

That’s a pretty blatant indication as to where his priority was this summer.

 

1 hour ago, Thorny said:

But what about my avatar, that has to count for something. 

 

Pominville was a heck of a good Sabre.

[PerreaultForever]

5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Pominville was a heck of a good Sabre.

WAS is the operative word. He was never in JBot's plans and he shouldn't be.  

Everyone is thinking there are too many bodies on D and there's a master plan. I really don't think there is. JBot knows only one thing for sure on D. He has Dahlin.

He has no idea which guy will pair with Dahlin or who will be a long term guy or step up or whatever. He's simply trying to give Kreuger as many pieces as he can and the spare parts that don't fit (for one reason or another) will be moved on or let go eventually. You all assume Jokiharju is a lock. Chicago certainly didn't see him in their future. No way to know at this point. If he shines in camp he might be on the roster and maybe somebody gets moved early. If not, he might not even play. Does Miller want to be here? Will Montour play up to his potential and want a big contract? Will Risto find a role and play it? Will Scandella play better in a new system? Bogo? There is absolutely no way to guarantee any of this until we find out how Kreuger will have them playing.

We're young, we're faster, we've got competition for jobs (for the first time in a while), we've got a new coach who seems to have an idea and preaches a work ethic. Sounds good to me. Let's see what it amounts to. A trade for a 2C simply isn't happening, accept it.

 

[LGR4GM]

6 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

WAS is the operative word. He was never in JBot's plans and he shouldn't be.  

Everyone is thinking there are too many bodies on D and there's a master plan. I really don't think there is. JBot knows only one thing for sure on D. He has Dahlin.

He has no idea which guy will pair with Dahlin or who will be a long term guy or step up or whatever. He's simply trying to give Kreuger as many pieces as he can and the spare parts that don't fit (for one reason or another) will be moved on or let go eventually. You all assume Jokiharju is a lock. Chicago certainly didn't see him in their future. No way to know at this point. If he shines in camp he might be on the roster and maybe somebody gets moved early. If not, he might not even play. Does Miller want to be here? Will Montour play up to his potential and want a big contract? Will Risto find a role and play it? Will Scandella play better in a new system? Bogo? There is absolutely no way to guarantee any of this until we find out how Kreuger will have them playing.

We're young, we're faster, we've got competition for jobs (for the first time in a while), we've got a new coach who seems to have an idea and preaches a work ethic. Sounds good to me. Let's see what it amounts to. A trade for a 2C simply isn't happening, accept it.

 

And? This is just an odd line in this post. Chicago made a bad trade. We didn't see ROR in our future, Carolina didn't see Skinner in their future, Anaheim didn't see Montour etc... Chicago certainly didn't and they are going to pay a price for that mistake. 

I don't think Jokiharju is a lock with Risto still here. If Risto is traded, the only player Joker has to beat is Nelson. He's pretty good and I would be curious to see what he looks like after a Half AHL season coupled with a full offseason. 

That said, I think Jokiharju will shine in camp because he is pretty good. 

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

 

I don't think Jokiharju is a lock with Risto still here. If Risto is traded, the only player Joker has to beat is Nelson. He's pretty good and I would be curious to see what he looks like after a Half AHL season coupled with a full offseason. 

That said, I think Jokiharju will shine in camp because he is pretty good. 

I agree with the gist of this, but when Bogosian is healthy Jokiharju will have to pass him as well.

I don’t think many consider Jokiharju a lock for this season, but most think he’s got a shot and hope he takes advantage.

[LGR4GM]

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I agree with the gist of this, but when Bogosian is healthy Jokiharju will have to pass him as well.

I don’t think many consider Jokiharju a lock for this season, but most think he’s got a shot and hope he takes advantage.

I think Jokiharju will be better than Bogo by the time he returns. 

[Curt]

18 hours ago, dudacek said:

I think you either juggle the lineup in those matches, or grit your teeth for 15-20 games a year and do your best to make sure your shutdown D are always out with Casey.

Which brings up another question better suited for the lineup thread: if Risto goes, who the hell are going to be our shutdown D?

In what world is Risto a shutdown D?

[dudacek]

41 minutes ago, Curt said:

In what world is Risto a shutdown D?

Dan Bylsma’s and Phil Housley’s. If memory serves, Ted Nolan’s as well.

[GASabresIUFAN]

6 hours ago, Curt said:

In what world is Risto a shutdown D?

If he suffers a season ending injury.

[PerreaultForever]

11 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

And? This is just an odd line in this post. Chicago made a bad trade. We didn't see ROR in our future, Carolina didn't see Skinner in their future, Anaheim didn't see Montour etc... Chicago certainly didn't and they are going to pay a price for that mistake. 

You think this is true. You hope this is true (we all do) but you don't know this is true. Let's wait until we see both him and Nylander play this year before deciding this as a fact. 

[Thorny]

On 8/23/2019 at 12:21 AM, dudacek said:

You know, we’ve been focused on the forwards, most specifically 2C when we have been discussing “roster surgery.” 

Perhaps Its Botterill’s opinion that the team’s biggest problem is a lack of defencemen who can flip the ice and add to the attack, and that own zone coverage and 2ndary scoring up front will look a lot better with that resolved. He’s invested the equivalent of two 1sts and 2 2nds into Miller, Montour and Jokiharju and may be poised to replace Risto with Gardiner.

That’s a pretty blatant indication as to where his priority was this summer.

 

 

Pominville was a heck of a good Sabre.

Yup.

I mean, he probably still feels he addressed the forwards with the ROR deal last summer. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

So what about Casey?

[dudacek]

From this morning’s Buffalo News:

https://buffalonews.com/2019/08/24/buffalo-sabres-casey-mittelstadt-erik-rasmussen-map-south-hockey-nhl-news-2019/

With three weeks remaining in the Buffalo Sabres' season, Casey Mittelstadt called his trainer, Erik Rasmussen, in March to make plans to start their offseason workouts.

The date Mittelstadt wanted to begin: April 12, only three days after the Sabres' season finale in Detroit.

"I said, ‘There’s no way you’re starting then,'" Rasmussen, Director of Player Development at MAP South Hockey in Mendota Heights, Minn., recalled during a recent phone interview. "Casey said, ‘I will be there and we’re starting.’ ... Casey is driving it. It’s no one else telling him to work like this."

 

[Taro T]

12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

From this morning’s Buffalo News:

https://buffalonews.com/2019/08/24/buffalo-sabres-casey-mittelstadt-erik-rasmussen-map-south-hockey-nhl-news-2019/

With three weeks remaining in the Buffalo Sabres' season, Casey Mittelstadt called his trainer, Erik Rasmussen, in March to make plans to start their offseason workouts.

The date Mittelstadt wanted to begin: April 12, only three days after the Sabres' season finale in Detroit.

"I said, ‘There’s no way you’re starting then,'" Rasmussen, Director of Player Development at MAP South Hockey in Mendota Heights, Minn., recalled during a recent phone interview. "Casey said, ‘I will be there and we’re starting.’ ... Casey is driving it. It’s no one else telling him to work like this."

 

If he really did go nutzo on the training portion of the off-season, maybe he can make the leap.  (Wouldn't want any money on it & still want at least 1 more top 6 forward here by October.)

But if he did go overboard, there also is the concern that he ends up with an overtraining injury or simply burns out after 60 games.

Hope they got it right.  Him being adequate at 2C would be a huge boost.  And that'll make him all that much better at 3C once the stopgap 2C is brought in house.

[GASabresIUFAN]

Could Casey get sent down to start the season, especially if they want to give a legit look at Cozens?

If the lines are

Olofsson Eichel Reinhart

Skinner Johansson Shearu

Vesey Erod Okposo

Girgensons Larsson/Sobotka Thompson

Where does that leave room for Mitts?  I'm not sure where Cozens slots either but.....

 

[Curt]

29 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

If the lines are

Olofsson Eichel Reinhart

Skinner Johansson Shearu

Vesey Erod Okposo

Girgensons Larsson/Sobotka Thompson

Where does that leave room for Mitts?

Mittelstadt at 3C, move ERod to 3RW, move Okposo to 13th F.  

Sobotka or Okposo should not force Mittelstadt to Rochester unless Mittelstadt is playing terribly.

Edited September 24, 2019 by Curt

[inkman]

14 minutes ago, Curt said:

Mittelstadt at 3C, move ERod to 3RW, move Okposo to 13th F.  

Sobotka or Okposo should not force Mittelstadt to Rochester unless Mittelstadt is playing terribly.

Well Casey was terrible last season so if he shows no improvement, I don't care who is still on the roster, he should get sent down 

[Curt]

13 minutes ago, inkman said:

Well Casey was terrible last season so if he shows no improvement, I don't care who is still on the roster, he should get sent down 

Yeah, I get that, and I’m not saying it would be the worst thing in the world for him to spend some time in Rochester.  Keep in mind though that his line mates last season were Okposo, Thompson, and Sheary.  Two of them were terrible themselves and the other was just ok.  I’d like to see him with better line mates, or on the teams 3rd scoring line as opposed to the 2nd, before deciding to send him to Rochester.

[inkman]

On 8/25/2019 at 12:47 PM, Taro T said:

If he really did go nutzo on the training portion of the off-season, maybe he can make the leap.  (Wouldn't want any money on it & still want at least 1 more top 6 forward here by October.)

But if he did go overboard, there also is the concern that he ends up with an overtraining injury or simply burns out after 60 games.

Hope they got it right.  Him being adequate at 2C would be a huge boost.  And that'll make him all that much better at 3C once the stopgap 2C is brought in house.

Maybe he called Anjuice Peters (shout out Deluca!), got some HGH or whatever the kids are injecting into their buttocks for pleasure. 

[triumph_communes]

Casey has always been a very creative player, who I think was suffocated by Housley.  He will improve this year.

[Taro T]

3 hours ago, triumph_communes said:

Casey has always been a very creative player, who I think was suffocated by Housley.  He will improve this year.

Not sure about that.

He was played as the 2C far too often by Housley.  I was fine with keeping him up last year as I still believe that playing against AHLers would only reinforce his bad habits (biggest example being moving the puck directly into traffic in the slot, ragher than moving it wide and either passing it to the slot or getting a rebound to get it there) and not help him learn how to play at this level.

And, he seems to be using his linemates more than trying to get it to the danger spots on his own.  Looks like we'll find out next week if that's true or just perception.