2020-2021 Lineup Thread

[GASabresIUFAN]

Off-season questions:  
1) 2C - Does Jbot acquire a 2C or does he again sit on his hands and hope Cozens and/or Mitts can fill the role.  My guess is he gets someone, but who and does he trade a D to get him?

2) Which UFAs does Jbot re-sign, if any - Larsson, Girgensons, and Vesey top the list - Could Simmonds earn a contract? 

3) How much do we pay our 10 RFAs - Reinhart, VO, Kahun, Ullmark and Montour top the list.  Johansson, Pilut, Lazar, Thompson and Mittelstadt also need to be re-signed.  The 1st 5 are certain to remain Sabres but what about the next 5?

4) What does Jbot do about the goaltending?  Ullmark has earned a raise.  Hutton has one year left but does he get waived.  Does Johansson get a shot at the backup job?  Does he go outside of the organization for help? 

5) Other then Hutton - We have 9 players signed for next year - Eichel, KO, Skinner, and MoJo upfront (cost: 29.5 mill) ; Risto, Dahlin, Jokiharju, Miller and McCabe on Defense (cost; 13.975 mill).

6) Which kids make the team? - Cozens, Mittelstadt, Thompson, Pilut, Routsalainen, and Johansson. 

7) Other moves big or small? Right now it seems that outside of a 2C and maybe a goaltender, most of roster spots are going to current players or current prospects.  Kind of nice not to need a 50% roster turnover to field a potential playoff team.

Potential Lineup:

VO Eichel Reinhart

Skinner 2C Kahun

MoJo Cozens Mittelstadt

Girgensons Larsson KO

Lazar

Dahlin Jokiharju

McCabe Ristolainen

Miller Montour

Pilut

Ullmark Johansson

 

Edited February 25, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[WildCard]

Appreciate the post GA but that 3rd line is going to get murdered.

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 hour ago, WildCard said:

Appreciate the post GA but that 3rd line is going to get murdered.

As I've said before Vanek Roy Max was supposed to get murdered also and instead it became a huge match up nightmare for our opponents.  It's also why I retained the GLO line to take further pressure off that line and give RK the opportunity to create matchups that favor the kids.

[Weave]

3 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As I've said before Vanek Roy Max was supposed to get murdered also and instead it became a huge match up nightmare for our opponents.  It's also why I retained the GLO line to take further pressure off that line and give RK the opportunity to create matchups that favor the kids.

Except we’ve watch Mitts make bad mistakes even now in the A, and you’re a fool to not expect it from a true rook.  Vanek Roy Max had the benefit of a good start in Roc.  
 

If that is our 3rd line opening night Jbotts employment should be terminated.

[LGR4GM]

8 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

Potential Lineup:

VO Eichel Reinhart

Skinner 2C Kahun

MoJo Cozens Mittelstadt

Girgensons Larsson KO

Lazar

Dahlin Jokiharju

McCabe Ristolainen

Miller Montour

Pilut

Ullmark Johansson

 

You keep doing this and I don't understand why. Casey Mittelstadt never has been and never will be a right wing. 

Edited February 25, 2020 by LGR4GM

[WildCard]

6 hours ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

As I've said before Vanek Roy Max was supposed to get murdered also and instead it became a huge match up nightmare for our opponents.  It's also why I retained the GLO line to take further pressure off that line and give RK the opportunity to create matchups that favor the kids.

Roy Vanek and Max had experience and years in the AHL I believe 

[Randall Flagg]

I'm okay with one of Cozens or Mitts on a third line with Mojo and another strong, proven middle six player. Not with each other though

[dudacek]

37 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm okay with one of Cozens or Mitts on a third line with Mojo and another strong, proven middle six player. Not with each other though

I'm OK with Casey Mittelstadt and Dylan Cozens doing what Roy and Vanek did in '05-06: put up 40-something points while establishing themselves as NHL regulars.

Unfortunately, they will still be younger than Van and Roysie were in that situation. I'm starting to get impatient with patience.

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, WildCard said:

Roy Vanek and Max had experience and years in the AHL I believe 

Not exactly.  Max only had 15 games in the A.  Roy made the Sabres in 2003-4.  Vanek and Roy’s games in the A are inflated by the lockout.  Despite the lockout, the numbers of pro experience are about the same for the line I put together except Vanek had one season in the A because of the lockout.

Max - 347 NA pro games (only 15 in the A).  - MoJo - 643 NA pro games (only 2 in the A)

Vanek - 74 Pro games (all in the A) - Cozens Zero pro games

Roy -  150 pro games (101 in the A) - Mitts 144 pro games (26 in the A)  or Thompson 177 pro games (70 games in the A).

Cozens is a bigger, faster and stronger player then Reinhart was after his post draft CHL season.  I don’t think he’ll have a huge problem transitioning to the NHL in a 3rd line role.  Vanek was 21 when he jumped into the NHL and Roy 22. Mitts will be 22 early next season and Thompson 23. It’s possible Mitts starts the year in Rochester because of Thompson’s waiver status, but like Roy (who also started the year, 8 games, in the A in 2005), I suspect he’ll jump quickly back into the NHL.  Thompson, 22, pulled a Roy and was doing very well in the A this year (6g 12 pts in 16 games) before jumping into the NHL (and getting injured in his 1st game).

 

1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I'm OK with Casey Mittelstadt and Dylan Cozens doing what Roy and Vanek did in '05-06: put up 40-something points while establishing themselves as NHL regulars.

Unfortunately, they will still be younger than Van and Roysie were in that situation. I'm starting to get impatient with patience.

Cozens is younger, but Mitts and Thompson, the 2 options at RW are about the same age as Vanek and Roy.

Edited February 25, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[GASabresIUFAN]

What everyone seems to forget is that to make the cap work and to build a team you must give young guys an opportunity.  Fortunately with Thompson, Mitts, Asplund, Cozens, Routsalainen and now Kahun, Jbot has options to build out his roster next season, especially if he retains 3 of Vesey, Lazar, Girgensons and Larsson.

Edited February 25, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

 

 

Cozens is younger, but Mitts and Thompson, the 2 options at RW are about the same age as Vanek and Roy.

Casey Mittelstadt is not a right wing. Just stop trying to force this. He shoots left and has played center at every single level. At best he might be considered for the left wing but there are no circumstances where the Sabres will take Mitts and move him not only from his normal position but also to his off-side. It wouldn't even make sense. 

[dudacek]

The way I was looking at it is that Casey will be in his D4 year and Dylan his D2, Derek was in his D5 and Van his D3

[GASabresIUFAN]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

Casey Mittelstadt is not a right wing. Just stop trying to force this. He shoots left and has played center at every single level. At best he might be considered for the left wing but there are no circumstances where the Sabres will take Mitts and move him not only from his normal position but also to his off-side. It wouldn't even make sense. 

You keep saying that, but he has played wing in the NHL and at points in college.

[LGR4GM]

I have no reason to believe that Tage or Mitts are NHL ready. 

3 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

You keep saying that, but he has played wing in the NHL and at points in college.

Really, please tell me when he has played right wing? How did it go?

[GASabresIUFAN]

1 minute ago, dudacek said:

The way I was looking at it is that Casey will be in his D4 year and Dylan his D2, Derek was in his D5 and Van his D3

And Thompson D5.

Just now, LGR4GM said:

I have no reason to believe that Tage or Mitts are NHL ready. 

Really, please tell me when he has played right wing? How did it go?

In 2017-18 his first taste of the NHL he played 6 games, all on the wing had 1g 4a for 5 pts.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

And Thompson D5.

In 2017-18 his first taste of the NHL he played 6 games, all on the wing had 1g 4a for 5 pts.

Which wing? You are missing the point. Casey Mittelstadt is not a right wing and never will be. I have no doubt they can shift him to the left wing but you keep trying to force him to play his off wing and it isn't going to happen. 

Why on earth would Buffalo do something like 

Skinner - Cozens - Mitts

or 

Mojo - someone - Mitts?

It doesn't make sense. 

[GASabresIUFAN]

4 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

Which wing? You are missing the point. Casey Mittelstadt is not a right wing and never will be. I have no doubt they can shift him to the left wing but you keep trying to force him to play his off wing and it isn't going to happen. 

Why on earth would Buffalo do something like 

Skinner - Cozens - Mitts

or 

Mojo - someone - Mitts?

It doesn't make sense. 

MoJo and Kahun can play either wing.  If memory serves Mitts played RW in his initial NHL games which is why I placed him there.  I’m also not hung up on R shot RW only.  Vanek was a R shot LW and it worked out pretty well.  Reinhart was never a winger until the NHL and even a Thompson was drafted as a center, is a R shot and has played mostly RW but some LW in the pros.  
So flip flop Mojo and Mitts.  That’s fine by me if it makes you feel better.  

Ultimately the middle six has only 1 player locked into a role and that’s Skinner at 2LW.  Everyone else, Cozens, MoJo, Kahun, Mitts, Thompson, and maybe Vesey are fighting for the 2RW, 3LW, 3C and 3RW jobs.  Maybe Cozens, who has significant RW experience, slides to RW and Mitts plays the 3C.  Maybe Thompson wins the 3RW, Mitts the 3C and Cozens gets sent down.  However my best guess is Kahun wins the 2RW, and Cozens, Mitts and MoJo are the 3rd line.

[LGR4GM]

At this point, I would make no bets or guesses on Cozens,Tage, Mitts.  We just don't know if they will actually be useful NHL players. 

[dudacek]

Just now, LGR4GM said:

At this point, I would make no bets or guesses on Cozens,Tage, Mitts.  We just don't know if they will actually be useful NHL players. 

Not sure where "useful NHL players" is defined, but I will bet that all three have NHL careers of at least 250 NHL games and, barring catastrophic injury, two of the three play at least 500.

[LGR4GM]

4 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Not sure where "useful NHL players" is defined, but I will bet that all three have NHL careers of at least 250 NHL games and, barring catastrophic injury, two of the three play at least 500.

Top 9. Above replacement level. The opposite of what Frolic is at this point. 

[shrader]

5 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

Casey Mittelstadt is not a right wing. Just stop trying to force this. He shoots left and has played center at every single level. At best he might be considered for the left wing but there are no circumstances where the Sabres will take Mitts and move him not only from his normal position but also to his off-side. It wouldn't even make sense. 

Now I want to continuously refer to him as a RW.  I will run this thing into the ground, making it the new Gerbe is a center.  You will feel my pain!

[GASabresIUFAN]

3 hours ago, LGR4GM said:

At this point, I would make no bets or guesses on Cozens,Tage, Mitts.  We just don't know if they will actually be useful NHL players. 

No we don't but at some point some of these kids are going to have to contribute and next year is the time for it to happen IMHO.  Seriously when do you ever know what a kid is going to do in the NHL until he plays there.  Did we expect Jokiharju to be one of our top 4 D at the start of the season?  Did we know VO would be a perfect sidekick to Jack?  

Why can't Cozens put up 40 points next year as a 3C? Reinhart had 23g 19a in his first NHL season fresh off a 65 pt in 47game campaign in the WHL.

Why can't Mitts who put up 25 pts in the NHL in 2018-19 build off the confidence he has gained in the A, and come back more physically and mentally ready for the NHL and score 40 pts?

Edited February 25, 2020 by GASabresIUFAN

[DarthEbriate]

Caveat: This entire post is about forwards only.

Part of it is also the roster construction. We're getting better because Jack and Sam are better, but there's also added depth (Olofsson and Skinner have pushed down Girgs to 4LW where he's an ideal player), etc. A top-end roster can handle 2 rookie forwards in the lineup. Ours couldn't last year (Mitts and Thompson). Nor could ours when Jack and Sam were both in the first full year. This year we've only really had Olofsson all year. Mitts got half a season, then Asplund and we had a lot of struggles after the initial burst wore off. Lazar solidified the team.

My guess is next year we still can only handle 1 rookie in the lineup: it's probably Cozens.

Now the grand question that Mitts and Thompson are over 100 games played --- do they still look like rookies next season? If yes, they've got to be in ROC. If not, then splendid. Let them fight for a spot.

[Weave]

59 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

Caveat: This entire post is about forwards only.

Part of it is also the roster construction. We're getting better because Jack and Sam are better, but there's also added depth (Olofsson and Skinner have pushed down Girgs to 4LW where he's an ideal player), etc. A top-end roster can handle 2 rookie forwards in the lineup. Ours couldn't last year (Mitts and Thompson). Nor could ours when Jack and Sam were both in the first full year. This year we've only really had Olofsson all year. Mitts got half a season, then Asplund and we had a lot of struggles after the initial burst wore off. Lazar solidified the team.

My guess is next year we still can only handle 1 rookie in the lineup: it's probably Cozens.

Now the grand question that Mitts and Thompson are over 100 games played --- do they still look like rookies next season? If yes, they've got to be in ROC. If not, then splendid. Let them fight for a spot.

I like this take.

[Thorny]

On 2/24/2020 at 2:43 PM, Taro T said:

Most everybody here has Mittelstadt sliding to the wing and Cozens playing C.  Except for about 4 games during his very 1st stint with the Sabres, he's always been a C with this organization and in college.  If both he and Cozens make the team next year, believe there's a far greater likelihood that Mitts plays C than Cozens does.  (Especially given the success Cozens had at the WJC as a RW.)

Mitts is too slow to be a C. I'd rather Cozens play there.