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Brawndo

Sabres Trade Alex Nylander to Chicago for D Man Henri Jokiharju

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25 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

You know, I really found this post interesting... and then there was the fear mongering ROR line. Let's set the record straight. Ror was good in buffalo. He was very good. He didn't suddenly become good when he went st Louis. The trade was bad because he was good. He had a career year sure but the underlying player was always there. 

We don't have to trade (Risto) I'm fine with him staying but he's the only obvious piece that could improve the top 6. 

Believe it or not, I agree with this.

I also think Risto is better than you do (a 2/3, not a 4/5), but I generally share your criticisms of his game.

I also think that if we trade him to Tampa he, like ROR, will have a career year on a very successful team.And if the return isn’t doing similar things in Buffalo, people will be melting down, just like O’Reilly all over again.

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39 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Believe it or not, I agree with this.

I also think Risto is better than you do (a 2/3, not a 4/5), but I generally share your criticisms of his game.

I also think that if we trade him to Tampa he, like ROR, will have a career year on a very successful team.And if the return isn’t doing similar things in Buffalo, people will be melting down, just like O’Reilly all over again.

And I honestly liked everything else in your post. Good thoughts on risto

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Believe it or not, I agree with this.

I also think Risto is better than you do (a 2/3, not a 4/5), but I generally share your criticisms of his game.

I also think that if we trade him to Tampa he, like ROR, will have a career year on a very successful team.And if the return isn’t doing similar things in Buffalo, people will be melting down, just like O’Reilly all over again.

The good news is unlike losing O'Reilly we aren't creating a gaping hole this time when we do trade Ristolainen. Montour, Miller, Joki...if one thing can be said about Botterill it's that he learns from his mistakes, or at least that one

Edited by WildCard
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5 minutes ago, WildCard said:

The good news is unlike losing O'Reilly we aren't creating a gaping hole this time when we do trade Ristolainen. Montour, Miller, Joki...if one thing can be said about Botterill it's that he learns from his mistakes, or at least that one

Yep - removing ROR turned the center spine behind Jack into the worst in the league. Trading Risto won't do the same for our RHD, and even if it did, with Dahlin on the other side it wouldn't be as noticeable. 

And I'd put a lot of money on the player we get in return for Risto being a better NHLer than any single piece we got for ROR was or will be for a couple of seasons

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Interesting nugget about Jokiharju in the Athletic today:

“Jokiharju did struggle in his first NHL season. By both GSVA and WAR he was a sub-replacement level player.”

Will you #fancystats guys get your stories straight?

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Interesting nugget about Jokiharju in the Athletic today:

“Jokiharju did struggle in his first NHL season. By both GSVA and WAR he was a sub-replacement level player.”

Will you #fancystats guys get your stories straight?

Holy buzzkill, Batman!

Edited by Weave
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7 hours ago, Weave said:

Holy buzzkill, Batman!

I think it’s best to temper expectations. The guy was demoted last year to the AHL, but somehow we’ve suddenly made him into a top-4 defensemen. 

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2 hours ago, kas23 said:

I think it’s best to temper expectations. The guy was demoted last year to the AHL, but somehow we’ve suddenly made him into a top-4 defensemen. 

We haven't made him to be one. It's that he was one, prior to the coaching change in Chicago where Coach Q left & Colliton came in.

He was playing 20-25 minutes a night with Duncan Keith & then almost immediately after the coaching change had his ice time diminish.

So 1 coach felt he was good enough to play with Keith, the other didnt. One is Joel Quenneville, the other Jeremy Colliton.

Who should we believe had a better handle on who Jokiharju was as a player? Not surprising that lots of fans are hoping Coach Q's evaluation was the right one, especially given his experience & success as a head coach.

But fans here aren't just making him out to be a top 4 dman from thin air. There is good reason to hope he can be that in the future, as always time will tell.

Edited by MillerVaive
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36 minutes ago, MillerVaive said:

We haven't made him to be one. It's that he was one, prior to the coaching change in Chicago where Coach Q left & Colliton came in.

He was playing 20-25 minutes a night with Duncan Keith & then almost immediately after the coaching change had his ice time diminish.

So 1 coach felt he was good enough to play with Keith, the other didnt. One is Joel Quenneville, the other Jeremy Colliton.

Who should we believe had a better handle on who Jokiharju was as a player? Not surprising that lots of fans are hoping Coach Q's evaluation was the right one, especially given his experience & success as a head coach.

But fans here aren't just making him out to be a top 4 dman from thin air. There is good reason to hope he can be that in the future, as always time will tell.

All this, plus IIRC he crushed it for Finland at the World Juniors, innit?

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9 hours ago, nfreeman said:

All this, plus IIRC he crushed it for Finland at the World Juniors, innit?

Crushed it for Finland at the World Juniors two years in a row, then did well for Finland at the World Championships where they also won Gold. (that’s the men’s one with lots of actual NHL players)

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12 minutes ago, Curt said:

Crushed it for Finland at the World Juniors two years in a row, then did well for Finland at the World Championships where they also won Gold. (that’s the men’s one with lots of actual NHL players)

Yeah, that's where I remember seeing him and he did well. I didn't see him play for the Hawks but I would trust Q's judgment.

He is still young for a D and any shortcomings can be worked on. I am hopeful he makes the team out of camp and settles into a top four role by mid season. He doesn't need to be put on waivers, so he may be sent down while our deep RD situation gets sorted out. Rochester D will be in good shape if they don't move out any D.

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10 hours ago, MillerVaive said:

We haven't made him to be one. It's that he was one, prior to the coaching change in Chicago where Coach Q left & Colliton came in.

He was playing 20-25 minutes a night with Duncan Keith & then almost immediately after the coaching change had his ice time diminish.

So 1 coach felt he was good enough to play with Keith, the other didnt. One is Joel Quenneville, the other Jeremy Colliton.

Who should we believe had a better handle on who Jokiharju was as a player? Not surprising that lots of fans are hoping Coach Q's evaluation was the right one, especially given his experience & success as a head coach.

But fans here aren't just making him out to be a top 4 dman from thin air. There is good reason to hope he can be that in the future, as always time will tell.

I don’t judge a player based on how much his former coach liked him. If he loved him so much, he would’ve traded for him. I’m sure Florida has a Nylander equivalent. 

 

I also think great players catch on no matter their coach. That is, if a player is good, they are good. Maybe this is a bad comparison, but the younger Rhino stayed on no matter how many coaches he had. He continued to improve. 

 

Its not not that I think he’s a poor prospect or will never be a top-4 defender. It’s just that I won’t be surprised if he starts the season on the Amerks to give him more playing time. I also don’t think he’s a reason we can go out and trade Risto now, nor do I think Miller is (another player who was demoted to the 5/6 pairing by a very good coach). 

Edited by kas23
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This is turning into a real hockey trade

Nylander 5gm 2g 2a 4pts +1 He is skating 11 minutes a game.  
 

Jokiharju 9gm 0g 3a +4 skating 16:30 per night.

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1 hour ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

This is turning into a real hockey trade

Nylander 5gm 2g 2a 4pts +1 He is skating 11 minutes a game.  
 

Jokiharju 9gm 0g 3a +4 skating 16:30 per night.

Jokiharju has some of the best advance metrics on the Sabres as well. 

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3 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Jokiharju has some of the best advance metrics on the Sabres as well. 

Also leads the team in turnovers, apparently, something I hadn’t really noticed.

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5 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Also leads the team in turnovers, apparently, something I hadn’t really noticed.

Which is interesting since some posters like to harp on Dahlin for this very issue 🙄

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5 minutes ago, inkman said:

Which is interesting since some posters like to harp on Dahlin for this very issue 🙄

Probably because Dahlin’s lead to goals.

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3 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Jokiharju has some of the best advance metrics on the Sabres as well. 

And Alex Nylander’s advanced metrics are horribly terrible, and he’s been scratched a couple times so far this season.

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1 hour ago, Curt said:

And Alex Nylander’s advanced metrics are horribly terrible, and he’s been scratched a couple times so far this season.

I think the commish would have rejected that trade in NHL20 or whatever they are calling it these days 

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I saw this on another forum.  The context was a thread from November 2018, discussing which young defensemen would be the best by 2021.  This was the OP's list:

  1. Dahlin
  2. Heiskanen
  3. Chabot
  4. Provorov
  5. Werenski
  6. McAvoy
  7. Makar
  8. Jokiharju
  9. Girard
  10. Sergachev

So basically out of Dahlin's contemporaries, according to some random guy on the internet (and several other posters who commented on that thread), we have two of the ten best on our club.  They're both good and only getting better.  I'm starting to think that with several of the moves made over the summer, JBot tried to achieve the best mix of young talent and veteran mentorship on the team.

Edited by Doohickie

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44 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

  I'm starting to think that with several of the moves made over the summer, JBot tried to achieve the best mix of young talent and veteran mentorship on the team.

Which, is also how you manage the salary cap and build a team structure that can endure in this cap league, and not just have a small window that closes fast (like T-dot).

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15 hours ago, SwampD said:

Probably because Dahlin’s lead to goals.

Dahlin has been on the ice for a whopping 1 more goal against than Jokiharju. 

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3 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Dahlin has been on the ice for a whopping 1 more goal against than Jokiharju. 

I meant last year. He had some really bad giveaways that led to goals. People have really long memories when it is consistent with their narrative.

Edited by SwampD

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