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2019-20 Sabres Prospects

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2 hours ago, dudacek said:

That the LOGgers are a 4th line remains one of the most common mischaracterizations about the Sabres.

Larsson was 6th in ice time among Sabre forwards.

Due to necessity.  If a capable 2 way 50 point center comes along, I think Larsson will be relegated more closely to a 4th line role.  Possibly 3rd line depending on how the chips fall. 

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4 hours ago, dudacek said:

That the LOGgers are a 4th line remains one of the most common mischaracterizations about the Sabres.

Larsson was 6th in ice time among Sabre forwards.

Scream it from the rooftops.

A massive hole that needs to be filled. Once we make that centre addition, the most significant centre addition we've seen since ROR, half a decade ago, we'll be back to our near-basement level status-quo.

Then we can see about knocking out some roster improvement....But we HAVE the cap space, so.

Edited by Thorny
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1 hour ago, inkman said:

Due to necessity.  If a capable 2 way 50 point center comes along, I think Larsson will be relegated more closely to a 4th line role.  Possibly 3rd line depending on how the chips fall. 

It's unlikely Larsson would lose his defensive match-ups role unless we brought in a better defensive C. It's not a long list. He'd settle it at 3rd most ice-time for centres I'd imagine, but pretty close to the 2nd guy, if we brought in say a Monahan level player. It would be the PP time that separated the two, though Larsson would probably make it up on the PK.

 It's funny to say "out of necessity". That's pretty scary - the obvious implication is, because we haven't had better centres. Can we acquire 2 now? Who's filling his role currently, by necessity? Lazar or Johansson I guess. 

Edited by Thorny

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Philly, Montreal, Colorado and Ottawa 10-9-8-7 in Pronman's Under-22 rankings.

Only six more teams to go. Sabres yet to drop

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12 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Philly, Montreal, Colorado and Ottawa 10-9-8-7 in Pronman's Under-22 rankings.

Only six more teams to go. Sabres yet to drop

Carried by Dahlin, Cozens, and Jokiharju no doubt.

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

Philly, Montreal, Colorado and Ottawa 10-9-8-7 in Pronman's Under-22 rankings.

Only six more teams to go. Sabres yet to drop

According to the images on the article's main page the top teams (in no particular order) are Buffalo, Toronto, and Vancouver (because Matthews counts).

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On 9/4/2020 at 10:46 AM, dudacek said:

That the LOGgers are a 4th line remains one of the most common mischaracterizations about the Sabres.

Larsson was 6th in ice time among Sabre forwards.

It's not a mischaracterization, it's what they should be. 

They got more ice time because Krueger was trying to create a work ethic scenario where effort was rewarded with playing time and since lines 2 and 3 were crap they often got start periods and play more. They also got tossed out against checking lines when Krueger wanted to keep those lines off Eichel.  

If they're still a line next season and they're not our 4th line we're in trouble. 

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4 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

If they're still a line next season and they're not our 4th line we're in trouble. 

I think Larry and Girgs will sign elsewhere, but the LOG line could absolutely be effective as #3 (as they were this year) if the top two lines are filled out with top-six players playing their correct positions. Then, the 4th line can be a line with a defined purpose and not just another misshapen and inept 2nd line.

Look at VGK -- their 4th line plays 8 minutes a night but is great at what they do: go hit, cause chaos, and be energetic. Occasionally they'll get a goal. The LOG line does a lot more than that: they can shut down top lines. They don't score much, but they can get a cycle going offensively. They can suppress the best for 12-15 minutes/night. And for a few games here and there last season, the LOG carried this team. VGK #4 doesn't do that. However, VGK has 3 complete lines above them.

If (a very big if) we get two bona fide top lines, then we can afford a top checking line like the LOG. And then line 4 can be kid/specialists or a defined energy line. All bookended by: I doubt Girgs or Larry is a Sabre next season.

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30 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I think Larry and Girgs will sign elsewhere, but the LOG line could absolutely be effective as #3 (as they were this year) if the top two lines are filled out with top-six players playing their correct positions. Then, the 4th line can be a line with a defined purpose and not just another misshapen and inept 2nd line.

Look at VGK -- their 4th line plays 8 minutes a night but is great at what they do: go hit, cause chaos, and be energetic. Occasionally they'll get a goal. The LOG line does a lot more than that: they can shut down top lines. They don't score much, but they can get a cycle going offensively. They can suppress the best for 12-15 minutes/night. And for a few games here and there last season, the LOG carried this team. VGK #4 doesn't do that. However, VGK has 3 complete lines above them.

If (a very big if) we get two bona fide top lines, then we can afford a top checking line like the LOG. And then line 4 can be kid/specialists or a defined energy line. All bookended by: I doubt Girgs or Larry is a Sabre next season.

I'm not sure teams are lining up to grab Girgs but maybe Larry. Certainly won't be shocked if either leaves. 

I'm not sure Vegas built that intentionally or it was just the best answer to utilize what they had. It's certainly the old philosophy though and I wouldn't argue against it. 2 scoring lines, a checking line and a crash/energy line. Pretty tough to have more than 2 scoring lines in a cap league so it's a reasonable approach for sure. 

and crash lines are fun to watch 🙂

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39 minutes ago, DarthEbriate said:

I think Larry and Girgs will sign elsewhere, but the LOG line could absolutely be effective as #3 (as they were this year) if the top two lines are filled out with top-six players playing their correct positions. Then, the 4th line can be a line with a defined purpose and not just another misshapen and inept 2nd line.

Look at VGK -- their 4th line plays 8 minutes a night but is great at what they do: go hit, cause chaos, and be energetic. Occasionally they'll get a goal. The LOG line does a lot more than that: they can shut down top lines. They don't score much, but they can get a cycle going offensively. They can suppress the best for 12-15 minutes/night. And for a few games here and there last season, the LOG carried this team. VGK #4 doesn't do that. However, VGK has 3 complete lines above them.

If (a very big if) we get two bona fide top lines, then we can afford a top checking line like the LOG. And then line 4 can be kid/specialists or a defined energy line. All bookended by: I doubt Girgs or Larry is a Sabre next season.

Agree.  They were more than the normal “good” 8-10 min 4th line.  They were a good shutdown bottom 6 line that you can put out for 10-15 mins depending on matchups.  And if they were on a team with a reasonably balanced top 6, they would allow the other bottom 6 line to be heavily offensively focused and sheltered.

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10 hours ago, dudacek said:

Philly, Montreal, Colorado and Ottawa 10-9-8-7 in Pronman's Under-22 rankings.

Only six more teams to go. Sabres yet to drop

Not surprised, considering Dahlin is included. Dahlin/Cozens is a very strong duo. 

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8 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

It's not a mischaracterization, it's what they should be. 

They got more ice time because Krueger was trying to create a work ethic scenario where effort was rewarded with playing time and since lines 2 and 3 were crap they often got start periods and play more. They also got tossed out against checking lines when Krueger wanted to keep those lines off Eichel.  

If they're still a line next season and they're not our 4th line we're in trouble. 

The 4th lines that get 8-10 minutes like @Curt mentioned are usually energy guys, not shut-down match-up Cs like Larsson who deserve and will get more minutes. Sometimes teams will be structured where the 4th line, the one that gets the lowest minutes, is an offensively sheltered line. That can work too. 

LOG shouldn't be anything other than the 4th option when you need a goal, but when looking at overall minutes, ranking 3rd is fine and makes sense. 

Edited by Thorny
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4 hours ago, Thorny said:

The 4th lines that get 8-10 minutes like @Curt mentioned are usually energy guys, not shut-down match-up Cs like Larsson who deserve and will get more minutes. Sometimes teams will be structured where the 4th line, the one that gets the lowest minutes, is an offensively sheltered line. That can work too. 

LOG shouldn't be anything other than the 4th option when you need a goal, but when looking at overall minutes, ranking 3rd is fine and makes sense. 

I don't disagree with that in theory, but I have a little trouble referring to Larsson as a "shut-down" player. They may have used him in that capacity or attempted to, but he's really not that great. If I'm a star player I think of Bergeron as a shut down player and I'd rather not be matched against him (for example). Larsson I'd see more as a nuisance who will get in my way a little but in the end won't stop me completely so I'm fine facing him any time.

 

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For the record, Rasmus Dahlin measured 6' 2.75" at the combine but Pronman is using elite prospects for his height so that's where he gets 6'2" from. 

I would also note that Pronman has never been a big Dahlin fan going back to 2018. I mention this because he has a line about Dahlin not being a big hard defensemen but at 6'3" and 205lbs as a 20 year old... he's pretty big and he's mean down low. 

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7 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

I don't disagree with that in theory, but I have a little trouble referring to Larsson as a "shut-down" player. They may have used him in that capacity or attempted to, but he's really not that great. If I'm a star player I think of Bergeron as a shut down player and I'd rather not be matched against him (for example). Larsson I'd see more as a nuisance who will get in my way a little but in the end won't stop me completely so I'm fine facing him any time.

 

Ftr, I’m pretty sure that the GLO line was to only line in the entire league that was a plus against Bergeron’s “perfection” line. Larry’s a shut down player.

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2 hours ago, Brawndo said:

Sabres are 5th on Pronman’s List 

I gotta say Pronman is always going to favour the special things a guy can do with his hands over the decisions he makes with his brain. It's why he continues to rank Mittelstadt high and Samuelsson low.

He would have had Max Afinogenov in the "special" category and Bill Hajt in the "has a chance to play in the NHL" category.

And for the record, I see Casey eventually settling into a similar role, numbers and career to Max — a luxury mid-roster offensive player who teases more than he delivers, and Mattias to Hajt — a reliable, unsung mid-pairing shutdown defenseman who plays for a long time.

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1 hour ago, dudacek said:

I gotta say Pronman is always going to favour the special things a guy can do with his hands over the decisions he makes with his brain. It's why he continues to rank Mittelstadt high and Samuelsson low.

He would have had Max Afinogenov in the "special" category and Bill Hajt in the "has a chance to play in the NHL" category.

And for the record, I see Casey eventually settling into a similar role, numbers and career to Max — a luxury mid-roster offensive player who teases more than he delivers, and Mattias to Hajt — a reliable, unsung mid-pairing shutdown defenseman who plays for a long time.

That would be amazing, but I'll eat my hat if it happens.  Max had 3 seasons of 61 or more pts (one of which was 61 in 56 games, and another of which was 73 pts).  I have a hard time seeing Casey putting up 40 pts at any point in his career, and I think it's close to 50/50 that he washes out entirely.

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22 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

That would be amazing, but I'll eat my hat if it happens.  Max had 3 seasons of 61 or more pts (one of which was 61 in 56 games, and another of which was 73 pts).  I have a hard time seeing Casey putting up 40 pts at any point in his career, and I think it's close to 50/50 that he washes out entirely.

I think you've been infected by the Sabrespacersa virus. Everything Sabre doesn't suck and will eventually fall flat on its face. 😀😀 Maybe it should be mandatory we wear a mask on this site. Geez. We're not as far away as some people think and if we could get some direction in the front office and coaching staff, I really think we'll be ok. There is talent on this team and our throw aways seem to find redemption when they play for some one else. Bogo-Lehner-Scandella-Fedun-ROR. 1 or 2 smart additions and we'll be on our way.

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30 minutes ago, jsb said:

I think you've been infected by the Sabrespacersa virus. Everything Sabre doesn't suck and will eventually fall flat on its face. 😀😀 Maybe it should be mandatory we wear a mask on this site. Geez. We're not as far away as some people think and if we could get some direction in the front office and coaching staff, I really think we'll be ok. There is talent on this team and our throw aways seem to find redemption when they play for some one else. Bogo-Lehner-Scandella-Fedun-ROR. 1 or 2 smart additions and we'll be on our way.

I generally agree that the Sabres aren't as far away as some might think -- but I also think Mitts has many miles to go before he can play in the NHL, and that there is a good likelihood that he won't get there.

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6 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I generally agree that the Sabres aren't as far away as some might think -- but I also think Mitts has many miles to go before he can play in the NHL, and that there is a good likelihood that he won't get there.

If it turns out that Mitts doesn't become a capable player in the league or even becomes a player in the league he will be surpassed and replaced by other players. He not developing into what was hoped for when he was drafted will be replaced by a player like Cozens who is more likely to become a consequential player for us. That's how it works. Nylander was a disappointment and was exchanged for Joki. The young defenseman seems to be on a high trajectory. That would be a plus. Sheary and Rodriques were inconsequential players for us. The player who we got for him was Kahun. If he turns out to be a good third liner at worst and a second liner at best then roster would be upgraded. That would be a plus. In this league there is always a lot of player shuffling. What you hope for is when the plusses and minuses are added up it ends up with a positive number.  

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