GASabresIUFAN Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 17 minutes ago, dudacek said: I make the trade over again, but it doesn’t change the fact that I was generally disappointed in Sheary and doubt he plays a significant role in this team being good. And (after Scandella’s disastrous year last year) Sheary might be the best of JBot’s depth pickups. Hype Lukkonnen all you want, but Botts has yet to draft an NHLer outside the first 8 picks. Pilut, to date, has been a passable 6/7 who has yet to prove he can handle heavy NHLers. I have high hopes for Montour, but the dude has contributed to 2 regulation wins. These might become great moves or they might become Noronen, Gragnani and Ehrhoff. We just don’t know yet. And, for the record, I very clearly posted “I am not advocating we go get Marleau” ? TM has yet to draft a full time NHL player after the top 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 minute ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Why doesn’t Dahlin count? Do Jack and Sam count for TM? TM missed on Nylander and in his 3 drafts, the 1st of which is now 5 seasons ago, there are still no full time NHLers besides the 2 2nd overall picks from those drafts much less Sabres. I’d even accept an argument that TM missed on Sam because there are arguably 4 or 5 better players from 2014 including Draisaitl, Pastrnak, and maybe Larkin, Point, and Nylander drafted after him. The best we can hope for from TM’s drafts are that Borgen, Olofsson and Asplund eventually contribute to the Sabres. Only 23 year old Olofsson appears close to NHL ready. Now compare to Jbot in just two drafts. Pekar, Bryson and UPL will already be in Rochester next season. Laaksonen (along with UPL) are two of top rated prospects in the NHL and Samuelsson, Bryson and Davidsson seem to be on as good of a trajectory as Borgen, Olofsson and Asplund. No, they don't. There is zero way for us to objectively judge how good Botterill's drafting is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 Bogo, Scandella, and Sobotka are not bad contracts because they end this season. Also, outside of Sobotka, Botterill inherited the rest did he not? I would add again that we cannot underestimate how bad Housley was as a coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: Bogo, Scandella, and Sobotka are not bad contracts because they end this season. Also, outside of Sobotka, Botterill inherited the rest did he not? I would add again that we cannot underestimate how bad Housley was as a coach. He acquired Scandella’s but dumped Ennis’ to get Scandella and at least Scandella gave us one decent year and doesn’t need to be bought out like Ennis did. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: I would add again that we cannot underestimate how bad Housley was as a coach. Keep saying it. It didn’t work for Bylsma, but maybe this time. 5 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: TM has yet to draft a full time NHL player after the top 2. And Botterill having a similar hit rate to Murray is a good thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: He acquired Scandella’s but dumped Ennis’ to get Scandella and at least Scandella gave us one decent year and doesn’t need to be bought out like Ennis did. Thank you, I had forgotten how Scandella ended up here. 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Keep saying it. It didn’t work for Bylsma, but maybe this time. And Botterill having a similar hit rate to Murray is a good thing? Bylsma was bad too! That's part of the problem. Since Ruff we have had Rolston, Nolan, Bylsma, and Housley. I gotta say I don't think any of them were particularly good coaches. Part of fixing the Sabres is fiiiiinnnnnaaaalllllllly getting the coach right. Edited June 13, 2019 by LGR4GM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 minute ago, dudacek said: Keep saying it. It didn’t work for Bylsma, but maybe this time. And Botterill having a similar hit rate to Murray is a good thing? Jbot has only had the two most recent drafts. TM had 3 drafts from which there should be more then 2 NHL players, considering that all of his picks have had 3-5 years already to develop. It’s pretty sad that in 5 years since he drafted 8 players in 2014 after Reinhart that only 7th rd pick Olofsson may contribute to the Sabres. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
apuszczalowski Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 6 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Thank you, I had forgotten how Scandella ended up here. Bylsma was bad too! That's part of the problem. Since Ruff we have had Rolston, Nolan, Bylsma, and Housley. I gotta say I don't think any of them were particularly good coaches. Part of fixing the Sabres is fiiiiinnnnnaaaalllllllly getting the coach right. Out of that bunch, Nolan was probably the best and got the most of of the very little he was given to work with. He was the sacrificial lamb sent out to the slaughter in the tank years, here to appease the fans that a favorite was brought back and hopefully make everyone pay less attention to the standings..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broken Ankles Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 4 hours ago, jsb said: Trade with Tampa Bay for Callahan, Martin and Joseph for McCabe and one of next years #2 picks. Trade with Winnepeg for Trouba and Perrault for Risto and the 31st pick Sign Michael Ferland 4 years 4.25 AAV Trade -Girgs-Larsson for whatever Skinner--Jack--Joseph Ferland--Martin-- Reinhart Sheary--Casey/Perrault--Olofsson ERod--Perrault/Casey--Okposo Callahan xtra Dahlin-Trouba Pilot-Montour Scandella-Bogo Nelson xtra You had me until Scandella. Good thoughts all around. I think McCabe is a good bargaining chip as well. His expected AAV and experience will attract s few team up against the cap like Tampa or The Peg. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doohickie Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 4 hours ago, jsb said: ERod--Perrault/Casey--Okposo I thought that name was retired by the Sabres.... Edited June 13, 2019 by Doohickie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 31 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Jbot has only had the two most recent drafts. TM had 3 drafts from which there should be more then 2 NHL players, considering that all of his picks have had 3-5 years already to develop. It’s pretty sad that in 5 years since he drafted 8 players in 2014 after Reinhart that only 7th rd pick Olofsson may contribute to the Sabres. I’m not going to waste much energy defending Murray, but I will say that he was closer to adequate than horrible. Eichel, Reinhart, Lemieux and Guhle is comparable to what most teams got out of those two years, even allowing for the Jack tap-in. And Asplund Nylander Borgen, Olofsson still have potential to allow one to say the same for Murray’s entire tenure. Edited June 13, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nfreeman Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 45 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said: Why doesn’t Dahlin count? Do Jack and Sam count for TM? TM missed on Nylander and in his 3 drafts, the 1st of which is now 5 seasons ago, there are still no full time NHLers besides the 2 2nd overall picks from those drafts much less Sabres. I’d even accept an argument that TM missed on Sam because there are arguably 4 or 5 better players from 2014 including Draisaitl, Pastrnak, and maybe Larkin, Point, and Nylander drafted after him. The best we can hope for from TM’s drafts are that Borgen, Olofsson and Asplund eventually contribute to the Sabres. Only 23 year old Olofsson appears close to NHL ready. Now compare to Jbot in just two drafts. Pekar, Bryson and UPL will already be in Rochester next season. Laaksonen (along with UPL) are two of top rated prospects in the NHL and Samuelsson, Bryson and Davidsson seem to be on as good of a trajectory as Borgen, Olofsson and Asplund. Dahlin and Eichel don't count as anyone here could've and would've made those picks. Sam counts against GMTM because Draisaitl is better, not to mention Pastrnak and others from that draft. It is very possible that Borgen, Olofsson and Asplund contribute more collectively at the NHL level than the JB picks you mentioned. Yes, they seem to be tracking well but there is no way of knowing until they deliver. For that matter, it's still possible (although I doubt it) that Nylander has a better NHL career than Mittsie does. EDIT: of course, @dudacekis correct that Guhle and Lemieux need to be considered in evaluating GMTM's drafts as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsb Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 24 minutes ago, nfreeman said: Dahlin and Eichel don't count as anyone here could've and would've made those picks. Sam counts against GMTM because Draisaitl is better, not to mention Pastrnak and others from that draft. It is very possible that Borgen, Olofsson and Asplund contribute more collectively at the NHL level than the JB picks you mentioned. Yes, they seem to be tracking well but there is no way of knowing until they deliver. For that matter, it's still possible (although I doubt it) that Nylander has a better NHL career than Mittsie does. EDIT: of course, @dudacekis correct that Guhle and Lemieux need to be considered in evaluating GMTM's drafts as well. How does any of that pertain to the topic of HOW DO YOU FIX THE SABRES?? Being a moderator can you please stick to the rules or start a new topic. ps... I've always wanted to blast one of the Mods...... WOOOOHOOO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennep99 Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 tl;dr Defense + Speed + Timely scoring win championships Using Nashville template in short-term(Dahlin, Montour, Broberg, Laaksonen?) * = Expansion Draft Protected Sabres Depth Chart (2019-2021) ----------------------------------------- Olafsson Eichel* Reinhart* Skinner* Colin Wilson A. Tuch* Sheary Mittelstadt* J. Roslovic* Rodriguez Girgensons Okposo* Wilson ---------- Zegras Asplund Pekar Glotov ----------------------------------------- Dahlin* Montour* Scandella M. Benning McCabe Nelson Hunwick --------- Broberg* Hickey Borgen Samuelsson Laaksonen Bryson Fitzgerald ----------------------------------------- Hutton/Ullmark//UPL*/Johanson/Free Agent ----------------------------------------- Draft : P. Broberg(D)[Can't teach size and skating] T. Zegras(C) [Turcotte is gone and Caufield is too small] Trades: Ristolainen + SJS 4th(2019) <==> EDM #1(2019) + Matt Benning(RD) + #3(2019) Nylander + Elie + 5th(2019) <==> Roslovic [wants out & WPG has cap issues] STL #1(2019) + T. Thompson <==> Alex Tuch [Need to dump salary to sign W. Karlsson] Larsson + CJ Smith + Daugherty <==> Wash 4th(2019) + 7th(2019) [Wash. needs bodies] FA Signings: Colin Wilson 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GASabresIUFAN Posted June 13, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 20 minutes ago, etiennep99 said: tl;dr Defense + Speed + Timely scoring win championships Using Nashville template in short-term(Dahlin, Montour, Broberg, Laaksonen?) * = Expansion Draft Protected Sabres Depth Chart (2019-2021) ----------------------------------------- Olafsson Eichel* Reinhart* Skinner* Colin Wilson A. Tuch* Sheary Mittelstadt* J. Roslovic* Rodriguez Girgensons Okposo* Wilson ---------- Zegras Asplund Pekar Glotov ----------------------------------------- Dahlin* Montour* Scandella M. Benning McCabe Nelson Hunwick --------- Broberg* Hickey Borgen Samuelsson Laaksonen Bryson Fitzgerald ----------------------------------------- Hutton/Ullmark//UPL*/Johanson/Free Agent ----------------------------------------- Draft : P. Broberg(D)[Can't teach size and skating] T. Zegras(C) [Turcotte is gone and Caufield is too small] Trades: Ristolainen + SJS 4th(2019) <==> EDM #1(2019) + Matt Benning(RD) + #3(2019) Nylander + Elie + 5th(2019) <==> Roslovic [wants out & WPG has cap issues] STL #1(2019) + T. Thompson <==> Alex Tuch [Need to dump salary to sign W. Karlsson] Larsson + CJ Smith + Daugherty <==> Wash 4th(2019) + 7th(2019) [Wash. needs bodies] FA Signings: Colin Wilson Interesting. Roslovic and Tuch would be very interesting adds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PerreaultForever Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 Wait and watch for it. We will sign no decent free agents and then claim the Skinner signing was our FA signing. JBot will trade Risto for a draft pick a utility player of no consequence and a veteran 2C who will hate being here and play like crap. meanwhile Risto will be a beast for his new team and they will make a solid cup run. After another bad season of adjusting to Kreuger we will lose the lottery again and then Sam will demand a huge amount of money forcing a trade unless we overpay and enter cap hell. Then Sam gets traded for draft picks and a mediocre forward who doesn't want to be here....................rinse and repeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, PerreaultForever said: Wait and watch for it. We will sign no decent free agents and then claim the Skinner signing was our FA signing. JBot will trade Risto for a draft pick a utility player of no consequence and a veteran 2C who will hate being here and play like crap. meanwhile Risto will be a beast for his new team and they will make a solid cup run. After another bad season of adjusting to Kreuger we will lose the lottery again and then Sam will demand a huge amount of money forcing a trade unless we overpay and enter cap hell. Then Sam gets traded for draft picks and a mediocre forward who doesn't want to be here....................rinse and repeat. Longtime Bills fan, I see. In all seriousness, Skinner was the Sabres big UFA signing. I will be surprised if they give a big contract to anyone else. Nobody worth paying the dollars they will demand over term that is a good fit. I will also be surprised if they don’t acquire a secondline forward in trade. Edited June 13, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusader1969 Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 this is an easy question to answer - find yourself the next Binnington. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
etiennep99 Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 Thatcher Demko? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 2 minutes ago, dudacek said: Longtime Bills fan, see. In all seriousness, Skinner was the Sabres big UFA signing. I will be surprised if they give a big contract to anyone else. Nobody worth paying the dollars they will demand over term that is a good fit. I will also be surprised if they don’t acquire a secondline forward in trade. I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would be disappointed. I don't think we have the firepower to effectively fill our needs only through trades, which means we're left hoping for some unexpected help from within coupled with growth. Again. I want to be able to look at the roster and think it's a playoff team, not think it could be a playoff team if 5 things fall correctly into place at once. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyldnwoody44 Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabres Fan in NS Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 @GASabresIUFAN, One issue I have is that Doyle Alexander did not pitch on the WS winning Tigers in 1987. That's cus the Twins won it in 1987. Doyle did not pitch for the Tigers in 1984, which was the last year the Tigers won the WS. Other than that, carry on ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 1 hour ago, dudacek said: Longtime Bills fan, see. In all seriousness, Skinner was the Sabres big UFA signing. I will be surprised if they give a big contract to anyone else. Nobody worth paying the dollars they will demand over term that is a good fit. I will also be surprised if they don’t acquire a secondline forward in trade. Am still expecting (hoping) to see 1 2nd liner via FA and 1 via trade. If Skinner is the only top 6 FA signing, this will likely be a disappointing off-season as I'm there with @TrueBlueGED expecting they don't have the juice to get both via trade unless they plan on dumping Ristolainen with no other defensive reinforcements brought back in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ho-Chi-Sock Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 No wonder ROR is so revere by some of you. Cripes... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brawndo Posted June 13, 2019 Report Share Posted June 13, 2019 I would change The OP Avatar’s for starters.? There have been a total of 71 NHL Games played by players drafted after the First Round in 2017. 42 of those have been played by two players Bathurst for Ottawa and Comtois for Anaheim. There have been zero games played by anyone drafted after the First Round in 2018. So it’s very premature to make any conclusions about Botterill’s Drafting Acumen one way or another. In Three Years of Drafts 2014-2016 only Reinhart and Eichel have played over 82 games. Out of the rest of GMTM’s Selections there have been a total of 130 Games played by 5 players. Leumieux leads the pack with 72, Guhle is second at 29. Nylander tops the list of players who remain Sabres Property with 19. Oloffson, Borgen, Asplund and Fitzgerald are the closest to the NHL, the latter two have not appeared in the NHL as of yet. In terms of improving the team. 1. Hire Mike Vellucci as an Asst Coach to run on ice strategy. 2. Trade Risto to Tampa for JT Miller, Foote, Callahan and 2020 2nd 3. Sign Jonas Donskoi 3 years 10 Million 4. Talk to Joe Pavelski if The Sharks elect to move on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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