Official: Skinner Signs 8 year, $72MM Extension

[LTS]

10 hours ago, nucci said:

How do other teams sign their best players to big contracts yet keep winning?

 

It starts with actually signing them. Check the box on Skinner.  Next.  ?

[spndnchz]

6 hours ago, nfreeman said:

The SJ offer wasn’t there for Kane at the time the Sabres could’ve signed him — so he would’ve been weighing a $49MM guarantee against zero for an entire year.  

We also don’t know whether the Pegulas gave any instruction on this.  Either way, though, I think if the Sabres had offered him $49MM at their earliest opportunity, he would’ve taken it.  

I still don’t want Kane. Sans good hockey player. 

[IKnowPhysics]

Couple thoughts:

1)  I could look it up, but I can't quite remember who we traded for Skinner.  That's fantastic when talking about the acquisition on a 40 goal scorer.

2)  The money and years are just fine.  He's proven his production.  He's proven he makes our captain better and our first line excellent, even against good competition.

2a)  When the new TV contract comes in (now with $eattle tv rights) and the new CBA is signed, I think the cap will go up, and this deal will get cheaper.  And if for some reason I'm dead wrong and the cap goes drastically down, the NHL will enable new buyout options.

3)  I don't like the NMC going the full eight years.  Two or four would have been fine.  But I think Jeff is one the most seriously competitive-minded players on the team- he'll reasonably agree to move on if he's shown a better opportunity.  But that's not always in the best interest of the team.

4)  We now know who the 1LW is for at least four years.  No one currently in the pipeline comes close.

5)  If this signing wasn't complete and Jeff walked, there was no way next year's team would not have been BRUTAL.  So we avoided that certainty, which is nice.

 

[#freejame]

Just now, IKnowPhysics said:

2a)  When the new TV contract comes in (now with $eattle tv rights) and the new CBA is signed, I think the cap will go up, and this deal will get cheaper.  And if for some reason I'm dead wrong and the cap goes drastically down, the NHL will enable new buyout options.

This is something that I keep forgetting about. I have a hard time believing you’re wrong about this. I would think most (myself included) are underestimating exactly how huge this will be for hockey. TV contracts have exploded since the NHL signed the NBC deal. The fact that the rights expiring coincide with expansion is quite the coincidence. 

[IKnowPhysics]

10 minutes ago, #freejame said:

This is something that I keep forgetting about. I have a hard time believing you’re wrong about this. I would think most (myself included) are underestimating exactly how huge this will be for hockey. TV contracts have exploded since the NHL signed the NBC deal. The fact that the rights expiring coincide with expansion is quite the coincidence. 

Yep.  With streaming content pillaging ad revenue for scripted television, live sports broadcasts are one the last tentpoles of commercial network broadcast television.  The networks will compete for exclusivity, and they will pay handsomely.

Edited June 10, 2019 by IKnowPhysics

[IKnowPhysics]

Also

 

[PerreaultForever]

16 hours ago, Scottysabres said:

Off this list, who interests you, and why?

UFA

Erik Karlsson
Tyler Myers
Anton Stralman
Adam Mcquaid
Derick England
Ben Lovejoy
Dan Girardi
Luke schenn

RFA

Jacob Trouba
Cody Ceci
Neal Pionk
Julius Honka

Rumoured

P.K. Subban
Ryan ellis
Rasmus Ristolanien
TJ Brodie?? (LHD plays right side)
Matt Benning
Kevin Shattenkirk
Colin Miller
Nikita Zaitsev
Jared Spurgeron
Eric Johnson
Travis Hamonic
Kevan Miller
Chris Tanev
Jeff Petry
Jason Demers

2020

UFA

Alex Pietrangelo
Justin Shultz
Tyson Barrie
Jared Spurgeron
Justin Faulk
Travis Hamonic
TJ Brodie?? (LHD plays right side)
Justin Braun
Sami Vantenen
Radko Gudas
Mike Green
Trevor Van Remsdyck
Dylan Demolo

 

Personally, I do not see a lot of potential added value (for the money) in the crop of UFA D men unless you're talking Karlsson, who I'd grab in a heartbeat but no way that happens.

Stralman is probably the best value now assuming its not a contract that overpays him but if he is healthy I'd consider signing McQuaid for cheap for his toughness, grit and leadership. Also Kevan Miller for similar reasons. I suspect most of those 2020 big names will re-sign with their current teams but Gudas would be an interesting guy for a bottom pairing if he came cost effective. We have some speed and skill on D now but lack grit. I like Ristos nasty game when he brings it, but I don't want him to be our toughest D man. He needs to (re)develop a more disciplined balanced game and Dahlin needs to be protected while he grows like Boston did with MacAvoy. 

I think this year the better value in FAs is for 2nd and 3rd line forwards which we are in desperate need of. The current rumblings however are that we might not do much now after paying Skinner and that is troubling to say the least. 

[matter2003]

11 hours ago, ... said:

A metro population nearly twice the size as here, the ocean, the middle-California weather, the area's relative wealth, the selective anonymity.  Not to mention the owners didn't want him. No way Kane was going to sign here.  He was living in a hotel room here and couldn't be "Kane" without being scrutinized.

Skinner signed here for about nearly the opposite reasoning, and many of those probably were a turn-off to Kane, the team's future notwithstanding.

 

The houses that cost 15 times as much in the most expensive housing market in the nation where 1 bedroom, 1200 square foot shacks go for $1.5 million dollars...

[Kruppstahl]

3 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

Couple thoughts:

1)  I could look it up, but I can't quite remember who we traded for Skinner.  That's fantastic when talking about the acquisition on a 40 goal scorer.

2)  The money and years are just fine.  He's proven his production.  He's proven he makes our captain better and our first line excellent, even against good competition.

2a)  When the new TV contract comes in (now with $eattle tv rights) and the new CBA is signed, I think the cap will go up, and this deal will get cheaper.  And if for some reason I'm dead wrong and the cap goes drastically down, the NHL will enable new buyout options.

3)  I don't like the NMC going the full eight years.  Two or four would have been fine.  But I think Jeff is one the most seriously competitive-minded players on the team- he'll reasonably agree to move on if he's shown a better opportunity.  But that's not always in the best interest of the team.

4)  We now know who the 1LW is for at least four years.  No one currently in the pipeline comes close.

5)  If this signing wasn't complete and Jeff walked, there was no way next year's team would not have been BRUTAL.  So we avoided that certainty, which is nice.

 

The money and years in a world with guaranteed Ks are definitely not fine.

But that is where we are at these days and that's the world the Sabres have to compete in.

The one thing that makes me think Skinner will not turn into another Drew Stafford is that he has a natural feisty/chippy edge to his game and he is one of the most difficult Sabres to play against on a nightly basis.

It's a built-in component to his game and I think that will mean his production does not tail off now that he has the big K.

 

 

 

[steveoath]

4 hours ago, IKnowPhysics said:

  I could look it up, but I can't quite remember who we traded for Skinner.  That's fantastic when talking about the acquisition on a 40 goal scorer.

Cliff Pu, plus Buffalo's second-round pick in this year's draft and a third- and sixth-rounder in 2020.

[inkman]

On 6/9/2019 at 8:38 AM, bob_sauve28 said:

Under. I'm seeing the next Drew Stafford here. He will have 16 goals next year, doesn't kill penalties, doesn't hit and is showing that having a good contract year works. 

Skinner averages more than double Drew Stafford's goal output. Maybe you aren't comparing their goal scoring ability, only guys getting paid but Skinner is literally twice the player Stafford is. He's been way more consistent and better. 

[That Aud Smell]

We're now charting toward a core of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and presumably Reinhart. Anyone else belong there?

I know it's a fallacy to blame a team's best players for its failures, but I can't help but be anxious about this. Perhaps it's the unpleasant memories of the "rotten core" that followed Black Sunday.

[darksabre]

7 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

We're now charting toward a core of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and presumably Reinhart. Anyone else belong there?

I know it's a fallacy to blame a team's best players for its failures, but I can't help but be anxious about this. Perhaps it's the unpleasant memories of the "rotten core" that followed Black Sunday.

You gotta commit at some point and see where things go.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

12 minutes ago, That Aud Smell said:

We're now charting toward a core of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and presumably Reinhart. Anyone else belong there?

I know it's a fallacy to blame a team's best players for its failures, but I can't help but be anxious about this. Perhaps it's the unpleasant memories of the "rotten core" that followed Black Sunday.

I would say Samson does belong in that group and I am tempted to put in the new guy (man, I can't remember any player names right now) ... the D from LA, or the Ducks?  Someplace in California I am almost certain.

[dudacek]

2 hours ago, That Aud Smell said:

We're now charting toward a core of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and presumably Reinhart. Anyone else belong there?

I know it's a fallacy to blame a team's best players for its failures, but I can't help but be anxious about this. Perhaps it's the unpleasant memories of the "rotten core" that followed Black Sunday.

Depends on how you define core, but I think Botterill would include Mittelstadt, Montour and Ristolainen*

And from listening to him talk, I think he is also holding out hope some of the kids will join: Thompson, Nylander, Olofsson and pick 7, maybe more.

 

*Ristolainen is an interesting one, in that I get the sense Botterill is among the NHL GMs who believes Risto is/should be better than his analytics. I think he has explored his value in the trade market, but I suspect he wants to leverage him for another potential core piece, rather than a ROR style package, and if he’s not getting a core piece I think he hangs on to him to see what Ralph can do.

Edited June 10, 2019 by dudacek

[Zamboni]

6 minutes ago, darksabre said:

You gotta commit at some point and see where things go.

Yep. You find your core players. And swap talent in and out of the lineup around them to support them. Hawks did that wonderfully for years.

[Doohickie]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

*Ristolainen is an interesting one, in that I get the sense Botterill is among the NHL GMs who believes Risto is/should be better than his analytics. I think he has explored his value in the trade market, but I suspect he wants to leverage him for another potential core piece, rather than a ROR style package, and if he’s not getting a core piece I think he hangs on to him to see what Ralph can do.

I'll say this:  I think the if won't happen.  Because of his analytics he's not going to return a core piece, period.  It's not that GMs don't think he can be a top-4 D in the NHL, but rather with his analytics there's considerable risk in that assessment, enough risk that other teams aren't going to return a core piece.

That said, I think what RFK does with Risto will be an early litmus test regarding player utilization.  Who knows what the final makeup of the D will be, but I could see Risto anywhere from the top pairing (if RFK's style gels with Risto's personality and talents) to third pairing where RFK challenges Risto to improve his game.

The Texas Rangers have a new manager this year, Chris Woodward, who's very different from the previous GM (who was a taciturn old school baseball guy).  Woody is young, 42, and done an amazing job of juggling the roster.  One move was sending the established center fielder, Delino DeShields, down to AAA because he wasn't producing enough offensively.  Due to injuries he's been called back up and his batting average is more than twice what it was earlier in the year.  When he was demoted, Woodward told him he believed in him, but that he needed to work on his swing and raise his batting average.  Upon his return he's been been hitting over .500.  Of course that's not sustainable, but even if he settles into the .300s, that's still better than the .220 he was hitting when sent down.  To bring this back on topic, I could see Krueger making similar moves in terms of demoting players not as a punishment, but as an opportunity to work on aspects of their game that need improvement (either in the AHL or on a lower line than their ceiling would dictate).  If Krueger can manage his roster anywhere near as well as Woodward has managed the Rangers, I think we'll all be happy with the situation.

[Derrico]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

We're now charting toward a core of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and presumably Reinhart. Anyone else belong there?

I know it's a fallacy to blame a team's best players for its failures, but I can't help but be anxious about this. Perhaps it's the unpleasant memories of the "rotten core" that followed Black Sunday.

I'm very hopeful that Montour will get that status in the next year or two.

1 hour ago, New Scotland (NS) said:

I would say Samson does belong in that group and I am tempted to put in the new guy (man, I can't remember any player names right now) ... the D from LA, or the Ducks?  Someplace in California I am almost certain.

You beat me to it NS but yes, Montour too.

[Taro T]

1 hour ago, That Aud Smell said:

We're now charting toward a core of Eichel, Skinner, Dahlin, and presumably Reinhart. Anyone else belong there?

I know it's a fallacy to blame a team's best players for its failures, but I can't help but be anxious about this. Perhaps it's the unpleasant memories of the "rotten core" that followed Black Sunday.

IF we're going to see success sooner than much later, Mittelstadt & Montour need to be in there.  (Montour this year & Mitts soon. 1-2 years away.)

And hopefully one of the 2 goalies can belong for a year or 2 before Luukkonnen steps up & joins that core as well.

And Dahlin WILL be there, but doubt he's ready for "core" designation just yet.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

27 minutes ago, Derrico said:

I'm very hopeful that Montour will get that status in the next year or two.

You beat me to it NS but yes, Montour too.

Yeah, that's him.  That's the guy.

I also agree with @dudacek about Risto.  I am putting him in 'my core', but I think Ralphsie will get a reasonable time to see how best to use Risto and than Bottsie will make a decision on what to do with him ... trade, or keep.  If Risto stays there can be no doubt that he is part of the Sabres 'core'.

[tom webster]

To me Risto and Montour are kind of connected. You either have to believe that one of them is a true number one pairing guy or one has to go. 

Neither of them make sense as a third pairing guy and it’s very unlikely they can be your second pair together.

[That Aud Smell]

^^

This is the good stuff. It probably warrants its own thread in the wake of Skinner's signing.  Or maybe it makes more sense of wait a bit. What are their in-season options with Reinhart in terms of extending him?

[Taro T]

8 minutes ago, tom webster said:

To me Risto and Montour are kind of connected. You either have to believe that one of them is a true number one pairing guy or one has to go. 

Neither of them make sense as a third pairing guy and it’s very unlikely they can be your second pair together.

There's a 3rd choice.  They're BOTH 2nd pairing guys, but 1 (probably Montour) has enough chemistry with Dahlin to play LIKE a top pairing guy when Dahlin is ready to step up his game.

[nfreeman]

My preference is that RK is given a chance to work his inspirational magic with Risto and succeeds in doing so.

But I think it's more likely that Risto is traded this summer.  Risto really sounded like he was planning on being elsewhere at locker clear-out day, and I felt like RK dodged it a little bit when he was on the Instigators the other day and Rivet pressed him for his thoughts on Risto.

[dudacek]

Chara/McAvoy Krug/Carlo Peitrangelo/Dunn Parayko/Bouwmeester

I don’t see a single pairing in there with two “1st pairing” guys. 

If Dahlin becomes what we think, I think we can win with Risto, Montour and Dahlin in our top four.