Official: Skinner Signs 8 year, $72MM Extension

[LGR4GM]

6 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Chara/McAvoy Krug/Carlo Peitrangelo/Dunn Parayko/Bouwmeester

I don’t see a single pairing in there with two “1st pairing” guys. 

If Dahlin becomes what we think, I think we can win with Risto, Montour and Dahlin in our top four.

The best defender in the NHL? 

[Brawndo]

Skinner will have a presser tomorrow at 1:30 at KBC 

[darksabre]

3 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

My preference is that RK is given a chance to work his inspirational magic with Risto and succeeds in doing so.

But I think it's more likely that Risto is traded this summer.  Risto really sounded like he was planning on being elsewhere at locker clear-out day, and I felt like RK dodged it a little bit when he was on the Instigators the other day and Rivet pressed him for his thoughts on Risto.

To me, the biggest argument in favor of keeping Risto is that the Sabres have FOUR UFA defensemen on the roster for this coming season: Bogo, Scandella, Hunwick, and Nelson.

If the Sabres let all of those guys walk it frees up 12.2 million in cap space and as many as four defensive roster spots.

Our defense next July could be Dahlin, Risto, Montour, and McCabe.

Without Risto the cap space ends up being 17.6 million. I think that's where the argument for moving him comes in. But I might be inclined to wait until next summer to do it.

[Taro T]

15 minutes ago, darksabre said:

To me, the biggest argument in favor of keeping Risto is that the Sabres have FOUR UFA defensemen on the roster for this coming season: Bogo, Scandella, Hunwick, and Nelson.

If the Sabres let all of those guys walk it frees up 12.2 million in cap space and as many as four defensive roster spots.

Our defense next July could be Dahlin, Risto, Montour, and McCabe.

Without Risto the cap space ends up being 17.6 million. I think that's where the argument for moving him comes in. But I might be inclined to wait until next summer to do it.

Not But only that 1 year, because after that Seattle takes the 1 that doesn't end up protected.

Which is 1 additional reason to avoid trading Ristolainen if reasonably possible while upgrading line 2.

Edited June 10, 2019 by Taro T

[dudacek]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

To me, the biggest argument in favor of keeping Risto is that the Sabres have FOUR UFA defensemen on the roster for this coming season: Bogo, Scandella, Hunwick, and Nelson.

If the Sabres let all of those guys walk it frees up 12.2 million in cap space and as many as four defensive roster spots.

Our defense next July could be Dahlin, Risto, Montour, and McCabe.

Without Risto the cap space ends up being 17.6 million. I think that's where the argument for moving him comes in. But I might be inclined to wait until next summer to do it.

Yes. I don’t think we are paying enough attention to what Botterill has been doing under the cap.

I thought his weekend statements about wanting to pay big money for big players was telling, coupled with what he said about why he was investing in Skinner (and implied about walking from Kane and Lehner).

His model is Pittsburgh: lock up an elite core, rotate in developing kids behind them.

[darksabre]

6 minutes ago, Taro T said:

Not after Seattle takes the 1 that doesn't end up protected.

Which is 1 additional reason to avoid trading Ristolainen if reasonably possible while upgrading line 2.

Isn't Dahlin automatically protected because next summer he'll only have played 2 years pro?

Edited June 10, 2019 by darksabre

[Taro T]

Just now, darksabre said:

Isn't Dahlin automatically protected because next summer he'll only have played 2 years pro?

My bad.  Seattle comes in the following year.  So, that can be the top 4 D next year, but 1 goes away the following year.

Which is why Seattle delaying 1 year is so frustrating.  The ONLY guy they'd have to expose in '20 would be Hutton.

[darksabre]

Just now, Taro T said:

My bad.  Seattle comes in the following year.  So, that can be the top 4 D next year, but 1 goes away the following year.

Ah. Then that makes things more interesting. Because in 2021 you have to protect Dahlin and Montour.

The question then is, do you want Risto to be your third protected defender? If not, then you have to trade him by next summer.

[LTS]

2 minutes ago, darksabre said:

Ah. Then that makes things more interesting. Because in 2021 you have to protect Dahlin and Montour.

The question then is, do you want Risto to be your third protected defender? If not, then you have to trade him by next summer.

Or you begin packaging up a deal that allows you to protect all the players you need to protect.  That's the most likely in my mind.  Keeping in mind that trading Ristolainen means that you will likely need to find a GM who sees the value in protecting him because they'd be taking on that requirement.  

[darksabre]

Just now, LTS said:

Or you begin packaging up a deal that allows you to protect all the players you need to protect.  That's the most likely in my mind.  Keeping in mind that trading Ristolainen means that you will likely need to find a GM who sees the value in protecting him because they'd be taking on that requirement.  

Good call. That might make trading him more difficult unless someone really wants him.

[Taro T]

1 minute ago, darksabre said:

Ah. Then that makes things more interesting. Because in 2021 you have to protect Dahlin and Montour.

The question then is, do you want Risto to be your third protected defender? If not, then you have to trade him by next summer.

The calculation becomes more complex than that.  IF he is their 4th D, then the question becomes if you trade him away, will what he brings back be worthy of bumping a F from 7 to 8 or are you trading him for prospects / futures that don't need to be protected.  OR do you work out a deal with Seattle to expose something else along with a sweetener to make sure what Seattle takes.  (Same q's but about McCabe if he's chosen to be the 4th guy.)

All q's that would've been avoided if Seattle didn't change their entry date.

[Sabres Fan in NS]

48 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

Skinner will have a presser tomorrow at 1:30 at KBC 

Another timely leak courtesy of @Brawndo ...

NS out ...

[bob_sauve28]

5 hours ago, inkman said:

Skinner averages more than double Drew Stafford's goal output. Maybe you aren't comparing their goal scoring ability, only guys getting paid but Skinner is literally twice the player Stafford is. He's been way more consistent and better. 

No doubt, just saying contract years are contract years. 

[inkman]

1 hour ago, bob_sauve28 said:

No doubt, just saying contract years are contract years. 

No doubt it always a risk essentially guaranteeing a family won't have to work another day in their life but Skinner doesn't seem like the faint of heart. He was already making millions and he played like a spit fire. I don't see that aspect of his game disappearing especially on Jack's wing which makes his job so much easier. 

[...]

2 hours ago, inkman said:

No doubt it always a risk essentially guaranteeing a family won't have to work another day in their life but Skinner doesn't seem like the faint of heart. He was already making millions and he played like a spit fire. I don't see that aspect of his game disappearing especially on Jack's wing which makes his job so much easier. 

Agreed.  Eichel and Skinner both have achieved everything in hockey already: recognition as top players, various awards, and, of course, super big contracts.  What's left for competitive people to achieve?  The Stanley Cup is the only achievement left for these guys. 

Skinner is older and a little more wise than Eichel, so that's the reason I take what he has to say about the team's potential seriously.  Skinner, to me, seems pretty authentic, and my reading of his demeanor combined with the way he plays game tells me the guy wants to win.  Both of these guys have the desire, and I bet Skinner would say the desire is as equal in Eichel as it is in himself.  

[WildCard]

 

[Doohickie]

Interesting that they tie Skinner's second half production drop to XHCPH's firing.

Edited June 11, 2019 by Doohickie

[Doohickie]

The one commentator states that he doesn't know if Skinner's a 40-goal scorer.  One of his complaints in Carolina was that he didn't get enough top line time... and he still got 25-30 goals per year.  I would argue that as long as he's stapled to Eichel or a competent 2C and plays 70+ games per year, he's gonna be a 35-45 goal per season guy (until the inevitable drop-off later in the contract).

[Derrico]

34 minutes ago, WildCard said:

 

That old guy is an ass hat.  I don’t like the 8 years but I don’t agree that all the other gm’s must be mad at Jason now.  Wait a couple more weeks to July 1st and then comment.

[Doohickie]

That was his point:  Now that the Skinner deal is done, it set a precedent for over-paying that other FAs will follow.  We'll wait and see, but I bet he's right. 

Every team is going to have some ridiculous contracts.  The key (and where the Sabres failed terribly in recent years) is spending those ridiculous contracts on the right guys.

[dudacek]

Wasn't there something like 15 teams with $20 million or more in salary cap space available this summer?

There's $300 million floating around in a competitive market and nearly all of it is going to be spent.

The top guys — and Skinner is a top-five guy this year — are getting paid a ton; it's just simple supply and demand.

[Taro T]

14 minutes ago, Derrico said:

That old guy is an ass hat.  I don’t like the 8 years but I don’t agree that all the other gm’s must be mad at Jason now.  Wait a couple more weeks to July 1st and then comment.

Yes the Sabres overpaid.  But, realistically, he was going to get at least $8.5 over the 8 years at minimum; so it's an overpay of $500k.  Which in and of itself isn't a big deal, but that deal likely causes Reinhart's next deal to be overpaid by $500k, Montour's deal to be overpaid by $500k, and Dahlin's by $1MM overpaid.  That's $2.5MM and is the difference between a vet and forcing an ELC guy into the roster.  Hopefully, the Sabres are finally entering a period of drafting well (which they historically did before the video scouting fiasco) so it doesn't make a difference; but until it doesn't make a difference, it makes a difference.

Of course, if their pro scouting improves and they can hold the Okposo contracts to only 1 at a time rather than up to 4 or 5, that could also allow them to squeeze in an extra good veteran middle 6 or 4/5 guy or 2 into the mix.

And Skinner 's deal will get cited by Marner's & Duchene's & the likes camps, but they were breaking the bank anyhow.  Skinner's deal has Max effect on Sabres contracts, not so much Ducks or Avs or Loafs.

[...]

Some team was going to be the first to overpay a prized UFA.  I guess I'm glad we did it this year, and kept the guy we know works with our main dude.  

[...]

We need just one Cup for now.  ONE.  One Cup win and all of these sins are forgiven.  After we figure out how to win one Cup, then let's worry about the moves that herald a dynasty period.

[Curt]

UFA's get overpaid.  They have all the leverage.  They decide where they want to go.  If they are good, they are usually going to get overpaid.  That's pretty much just the way it works.  It doesn't drastically alter the market or have any long term ramifications for other contracts in Buffalo.  This is how it always is.  UFA's get overpaid.