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Is Reinhart the answer at Second Line Center?


Brawndo

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On 6/6/2019 at 9:40 AM, TrueBlueGED said:

The flip side of this is that we really can't afford to go into the season with such a big question mark at such a critical position. Again. There's no way Botterill does this two years in a row, is there? That would signal a catastrophic failure of an offseason. If they choose to give Reinhart a chance at 2C, it should only be done with a viable alternative present on the roster. For instance, if we acquire Miller (or equivalent) who we know can play 2C at a competent level, that's one thing. But if the only alternative is Mittelstadt, that's recipe for killing the season before it starts. 

That's what I get for not reading the whole thread first. Agree with this. 

Edited by Thorny
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I am genuinely shocked at how much several veteran posters like Reinhart - and now some consider him an option at 2nd line center.  When I say shocked, it's not because I think I'm so right and whoever likes/thinks he can be a center is dead wrong.  It's that it makes me question my ability to understand what I'm seeing.  

 

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10 hours ago, Richard Noggin said:

Folks, what we have here is a Donald Rumsfeld quote (paraphrase, actually). 

Let that wash over you.

I didn't even realize it when I typed it but you're right. I remember him saying something along those lines either after 9/11 or before we were gearing up to go to Iraq back when he was Secretary of Defense under Dubya. It's true though.

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  • 2 weeks later...
2 minutes ago, Brawndo said:

 

Works for me.. and he's right.  The only real skill I need from a center is the ability to win face-offs and understand D zone coverage.. after that it's pretty much turned into a free for all of play a spot on the ice that's designed for your skill set. 

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6 hours ago, LTS said:

Works for me.. and he's right.  The only real skill I need from a center is the ability to win face-offs and understand D zone coverage.. after that it's pretty much turned into a free for all of play a spot on the ice that's designed for your skill set. 

Toronto has basically built their team on this concept. Wingers drive play, centers bury pucks. 

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2 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Again Botterill with the Sam driving his own line stuff.

Clearly a philosophical difference between him and Phil.

I'm glad he seems to agree that Jack and Jeff don't need Sam to produce while every other line does desperately. 

I wonder how different we'd all see Mitts had he gotten most of the season with Sam next to him

Their limited sample size was promising

Edited by Randall Flagg
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7 minutes ago, Randall Flagg said:

I'm glad he seems to agree that Jack and Jeff don't need Sam to produce while every other line does desperately. 

I wonder how different we'd all see Mitts had he gotten most of the season with Sam next to him

Their limited sample size was promising

Notwithstanding the need to add more good players, could Casey succeed with Sam and Jeff this year?

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10 hours ago, TrueBlueGED said:

How do you define success, and in what team context? I do not think he could succeed with them as wingers if you define it as 2C on a playoff team. 

Yes, that’s probably as good a definition as any, although I would probably tweak it to say could that be an effective 2nd line, as opposed to putting the entire spotlight on Casey.

Edited by dudacek
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I'd like to keep the Eichel/Skinner/Reinhart line in tact and although Reinart can be removed from the line it seems dumb to do that for the sake of line 2 which there are other alternatives either through free agency or the draft. As far as a 2nd line C I don't think we have any shot at Duchene (just my opinion) but I think 2 free agents in Anders Lee or Ryan Dzingel could be strong possibilities, Move Casey Middletatdt to RW and if the trade rumors are true trade for Zucker to be your LW. For line 3 you have C rodriguez, LW Sheary and RW Okposo . All is good with the world?

Edited by GoPuckYourself
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9 hours ago, dudacek said:

Yes, that’s probably as good a definition as any, although I would probably tweak it to say that could be an effective 2nd line, as opposed to putting the entire spotlight on Casey.

With the tweak, my answer is much the same. In a vacuum I'd say probably not, but maybe. Bigger picture, however, if it means Jack is skating with Thompson and Olofsson...yikes.

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54 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

With the tweak, my answer is much the same. In a vacuum I'd say probably not, but maybe. Bigger picture, however, if it means Jack is skating with Thompson and Olofsson...yikes.

I worry about Casey’s future if he is stumbling and bumbling with those two players in his D3 season.

Sam makes any linemate with an ounce of hockey IQ look better and Jeff scores goals by himself. That spot - with Jack drawing the top checkers on line 1 - is a gift. It removes all excuses; Casey couldn’t ask for a better situation to succeed.

If we can get someone like Zucker or Anders Lee to ride shotgun for Jack, then I foresee a similar opportunity for one of Tage/Alex/Victor on the other side.

Even If Botterill manages to pull off a real top-six addition, we still need a kid or two to take a step.

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What do you guys think of adding Connolly and/or Dzingel, neither should break the bank but would be upgrades. Wouldn't cost anything but money as opposed to giving up something for Zucker. Dzingel could play Center also if only for 1 year until Casey is more ready to take over and Cozens is ready for a 3C role.

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Did anyone else catch Botterill talking about Sam reaching out to him in Vancouver?

He wanted to be part of the team’s entourage during the draft. He greeted Jason and the Pegulas to his hometown by taking them out to dinner and welcomed Cozens to the team. Botterill pitched it as one the team’s young core stepping up into a leadership role and it sure looked to me like that’s the case.

Hope it’s leading toward a long-term extension this summer and an eventual A on his sweater as he anchors an effective second line. I think Krueger might turn out to be the perfect coach for Samson at this stage of his career and my fingers are crossed for him taking another step forward.

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5 hours ago, dudacek said:

I worry about Casey’s future if he is stumbling and bumbling with those two players in his D3 season.

Sam makes any linemate with an ounce of hockey IQ look better and Jeff scores goals by himself. That spot - with Jack drawing the top checkers on line 1 - is a gift. It removes all excuses; Casey couldn’t ask for a better situation to succeed.

If we can get someone like Zucker or Anders Lee to ride shotgun for Jack, then I foresee a similar opportunity for one of Tage/Alex/Victor on the other side.

Even If Botterill manages to pull off a real top-six addition, we still need a kid or two to take a step.

From the guy who always says development isn't linear?!?! 

It depends what you consider stumbling. He shouldn't have been anywhere near the NHL last season, I think that's clear. Even with better linemates, I'd expect more of a "normal" rookie season for a top-10 pick, even though it's technically year 2. 

Relatedly, I'll scream if they break up Jack and Skinner. We're paying Skinner to score 35-40 and that's not happening without Jack. 

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1 hour ago, TrueBlueGED said:

From the guy who always says development isn't linear?!?! 

It depends what you consider stumbling. He shouldn't have been anywhere near the NHL last season, I think that's clear. Even with better linemates, I'd expect more of a "normal" rookie season for a top-10 pick, even though it's technically year 2. 

Relatedly, I'll scream if they break up Jack and Skinner. We're paying Skinner to score 35-40 and that's not happening without Jack. 

Yes. Worry is not the same as giving up. I haven't given up on Nylander yet, but I certainly worry.

Casey's rookie year doesn't worry me; I kinda expected it. It would worry me if he hasn't learned from it and bumped up his strength and conditioning over the summer and it would worry me that someone with his expected upside couldn't take advantage of such good linemates to bolster his point totals.

Relatedly, Skinner scored 35 with Derek Ryan. He can score 35 with Sam and Rob Ray on his line.

Edited by dudacek
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43 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

From the guy who always says development isn't linear?!?! 

It depends what you consider stumbling. He shouldn't have been anywhere near the NHL last season, I think that's clear. Even with better linemates, I'd expect more of a "normal" rookie season for a top-10 pick, even though it's technically year 2. 

Relatedly, I'll scream if they break up Jack and Skinner. We're paying Skinner to score 35-40 and that's not happening without Jack. 

Taking Skinner offJack’s wing should not be a consideration.  They make each other better - any idiot can see that. (Except Housely apparently).  Your point on Mittlestad is right on. He needed another year to bake.  I hope they do not make the same mistake with Cozens.  

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34 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Yes. Worry is not the same as giving up. I haven't given up on Nylander yet, but I certainly worry.

Casey's rookie year doesn't worry me; I kinda expected it. It would worry me if he hasn't learned from it and bumped up his strength and conditioning of the summer and it would worry me that someone with his expected upside couldn't take advantage of such good linemates.

Relatedly, Skinner scored 35 with Derek Ryan. He can score 35 with Sam and Rob Ray on his line.

Not consistently, he can't. 

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Sam's been tried at center. It's no simple fix. This team does not need a 2C, it needs an entire 2 line. Whether you mix those players with those we have or have the same top line we had and add a new 2nd line, we need 3 forwards who can score added to this team to be any good. 

and while I like Olofsson and think he will be on the roster, ya'll are dreaming if you think he's a top line forward. 

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