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Brawndo

Is Reinhart the answer at Second Line Center?

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24 minutes ago, Georgia Blizzard said:

Too many variables at this point to know whether it makes sense, but:

If Mittelstadt doesn't show marked improvement and you don't trade for a 2C, you might not have an option.

In addition, Skinner resigns, Tage, Nylander and Olofsson are ready, you have an abundance of wingers

I think it would be serious GM malpractice to assume that any of those 3 is ready for a top-6 NHL role this season.  If the Sabres are lucky, they'll get one top-9 winger out of those 3 this season.

 

11 minutes ago, Weave said:

Y’all are nuts.

Care to elaborate?

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We talked about this all of this past season, and if memory serves the conclusion seemed to be (although I don't think there was consensus on the matter) that Samson was better off being a winger on his own line.  There is no reason to start an experiment with him as a C because he elevates the second line being a winger.  I'm with those who say the Sabres ought to find a serviceable center to pair with Samson on the second line.  The data and eye test both support this path forward.

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2 minutes ago, nfreeman said:

I think it would be serious GM malpractice to assume that any of those 3 is ready for a top-6 NHL role this season.  If the Sabres are lucky, they'll get one top-9 winger out of those 3 this season.

 

Care to elaborate?

Im still of the belief that if Olofsson isn’t playing with Jack that it’s a huge mistake. He’s been playing/learning a more rounded game in NA but I think once he gets on the big stage he’ll be let loose and be a scoring machine. 

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Yes, that's my view too.

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23 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Half of the argument in favor of playing Sam at center is he’s never had solid wingers and then list off a bunch of garbage (granted it’s the only rostered options at the moment).  If Eichel is the player many here think he is, he doesn’t need the best players. He need one two-way forward and one shooter (or a player who can play in front of the net). Players like Jack are supposed to help you be able to spread your talent out. Jack+Oloffson/Reinhart+Skinner should, in theory, be greater than Jack+Skinner/Reinhart+Oloffson. Also, if it takes Reinhart four seasons to play center, why would moving Mitts to the wing be indicative of him not being able to play center in three years time?

That's why I started my initial post on this topic with here we go again. We don't have the forward talent on this roster to give Reinhart adequate wingers so the experiment is bound to fail again, which is my whole point. You go to war with what you have and those crappy players I listed are what we have. Guys like Duchene, Panarin, and even Hayes aren't signing here and I'm not going to pull a wookie and assume we're going to hoodwink some team and take their best players for spare parts. Skinner is likely stapled to Eichel's hip (if he even stays). I think Reinhart and Mittelstadt are our best bets for a decent second line, but if they plan to move Reinhart to center then he's got nobody to help him. Olofsson has talent but he's too green to be with those guys and the rest of the forward lineup is worse.

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9 minutes ago, #freejame said:

Im still of the belief that if Olofsson isn’t playing with Jack that it’s a huge mistake. He’s been playing/learning a more rounded game in NA but I think once he gets on the big stage he’ll be let loose and be a scoring machine. 

It was a mistake to call up Olofsson so late.  We got a taste of what he might look like with Jack, but not enough to base a decision on for next season.   

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15 minutes ago, ... said:

There is no reason to start an experiment with him as a C

Yes there is:  RFK.

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3 minutes ago, ... said:

It was a mistake to call up Olofsson so late.  We got a taste of what he might look like with Jack, but not enough to base a decision on for next season.   

With how Housley screwed up Pilut and loved Sobotka, I am 100000000000 times glad that Olofsson was kept away from him. 

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9 minutes ago, Doohickie said:

Yes there is:  RFK.

RK isn't going to be experimenting like that.  The only thing that would make RK make this decision is if Samson himself requests it.  Otherwise, there will be too many other experiments in play to mess with something that works.  If JBot tells RK Samson was signed here as a winger, Samson is a winger.

Edited by ...
problems typing have I

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I have said many times I want to give Samson at 2C a decent shot, we need to bring in decent wingers though.

RW zuccarello/Nyquist 

LW Ferland , I really don't like many options here, Panarin and Skinner are the two top big UFA left wingers, the rest I wouldn't touch.

And even Ferland I feel like just had a big year, don't know if he can repeat it.   He'll want a 4 mill aav , and I wouldn't give that to him.  

edit: maybe go for Marcus johansson or Lee or trade burakovsky.

Edited by Huckleberry
some more options

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14 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

With how Housley screwed up Pilut and loved Sobotka, I am 100000000000 times glad that Olofsson was kept away from him. 

The implication was to call up Olofssssson and stick him with Jack sooner.  Let's remember, Jack was constantly talking with Olofssson during games, so, Jack may have been trying to prevent PH's corruption. Total speculation, of course.

Edited by ...
clarification. ratification. stratification. whoopie pie.

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16 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

That's why I started my initial post on this topic with here we go again. We don't have the forward talent on this roster to give Reinhart adequate wingers so the experiment is bound to fail again, which is my whole point. You go to war with what you have and those crappy players I listed are what we have. Guys like Duchene, Panarin, and even Hayes aren't signing here and I'm not going to pull a wookie and assume we're going to hoodwink some team and take their best players for spare parts. Skinner is likely stapled to Eichel's hip (if he even stays). I think Reinhart and Mittelstadt are our best bets for a decent second line, but if they plan to move Reinhart to center then he's got nobody to help him. Olofsson has talent but he's too green to be with those guys and the rest of the forward lineup is worse.

You honestly don't think we can get a Hayes-level player to sign here? C'mon man. 

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3 hours ago, dudacek said:

I remain one of the few interested in beating this dead horse. He was a great centre as a junior, his skill set cries centre and 15 games as a 21-year-old with a new coach, and bad wingers is not the definitive proof the majority of you consider it to be.

From the article:

"I started with the easy part and looked at his most common teammates (wingers) during that stretch. They were Zemgus Girgensons, Seth Griffith, and Nick Baptiste. He also at times had Benoit Pouliot, Jordan Nolan, Matt Moulson, and Justin Bailey on his wings.

Only one of those players are still an every day NHL player in Girgensons. That alone tells us a lot.

In those 12 games, Reinhart averaged a zone-start rate of 44.8%. Thus, meaning he started more of his shifts in the defensive zone for head coach Phil Housley. Giving a young player adjusting to a new position with bad teammates, considerably more defensive zone starts is an interesting coaching tactic."

I'm right there with you.  They need to try this.

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6 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

You honestly don't think we can get a Hayes-level player to sign here? C'mon man. 

Philly traded for the rights to Hayes and their franchise isn't a tire fire like ours is. Unless we are willing to pay more than they can get elsewhere the odds of us picking up good top 6 players in free agency is minimal at best.

Free Agency is always tough even with a deep pocket owner. All is takes is one team who is more competitive or in a more desirable location and the Sabres will miss out.

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

 

Care to elaborate?

Weave has been among the most resistant to the Sam as a centre push.

29 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

Philly traded for the rights to Hayes and their franchise isn't a tire fire like ours is. Unless we are willing to pay more than they can get elsewhere the odds of us picking up good top 6 players in free agency is minimal at best.

Free Agency is always tough even with a deep pocket owner. All is takes is one team who is more competitive or in a more desirable location and the Sabres will miss out.

Philly finished 6 points ahead of us and doesn’t have anyone that matches the stature of Eichel or Dahlin.

Botterill dropped an interesting nugget on WGR this morning. He was asked about Borgen and brought up the question of Borgen needing to by ready when NHL brutes like Anders Lee are battling for space in front of the net.

The Lee reference came out of the blue and was clearly front of mind for Jason, who later added that our pro scouting meetings were underway.  Given Jason previously lamenting our inability to get to front of the net on offence, I think we have had a glimpse at a potential UFA target.

Edited by dudacek

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Would at least be a much cheaper option then signing a UFA C.    And we can invest that in some wingers for our top 9 group.

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7 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Weave has been among the most resistant to the Sam as a centre push.

Philly finished 6 points ahead of us and doesn’t have anyone that matches the stature of Eichel or Dahlin.

Botterill dropped an interesting nugget on WGR this morning. He was asked about Borgen and brought up the question of Borgen needing to by ready when NHL brutes like Anders Lee are battling for space in front of the net.

The Lee reference came out of the blue and was clearly front of mind for Jason, who later added that our pro scouting meetings were underway.  Given Jason previously lamenting our inability to get to front of the net on offence, I think we have had a glimpse at a potential UFA target.

I'd spend 6.5mil for 4 years of Lee. (Yes I know that could be overpayment but UFA and all)

Edited by LGR4GM

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3 minutes ago, dudacek said:

Weave has been among the most resistant to the Sam as a centre push.

Philly finished 6 points ahead of us and doesn’t have anyone that matches the stature of Eichel or Dahlin.

Botterill dropped an interesting nugget on WGR this morning. He was asked about Borgen and brought up the question of Borgen needing to by ready when NHL brutes like Anders Lee are battling for space in front of the net.

The Lee reference came out of the blue and was clearly front of mind for Jason, who later added that our pro scouting meetings were underway.  Given Jason previously lamenting our inability to get to front of the net on offence, I think we have had a glimpse at a potential UFA target.

Philly may have had a down year but they aren't in the midst of a near decade long playoff drought like we are. Maybe Botterill will find a way to plug some holes in our forward lineup after all. We'll see in a month or so.

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9 minutes ago, LGR4GM said:

I'd spend 6.5mil for 4 years of Lee. (Yes I know that could be overpayment but UFA and all)

That'd be great but according to this article, Lee's camp is looking for a 7 year deal at $7mil AAV. From all accounts, Lee is about to get paid wherever he signs. https://eyesonisles.com/2019/05/30/new-york-islanders-impact-of-jeff-skinner-rumor-on-ufa-anders-lee/

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2 minutes ago, MillerVaive said:

That'd be great but according to this article, Lee's camp is looking for a 7 year deal at $7mil AAV. From all accounts, Lee is about to get paid wherever he signs. https://eyesonisles.com/2019/05/30/new-york-islanders-impact-of-jeff-skinner-rumor-on-ufa-anders-lee/

Exactly. Overpaying the next Okposo isn't going to get us out of this mess.

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1 hour ago, nfreeman said:

 

Care to elaborate?

Oh hell no.  I’m sure most know my stance.

This is the Sabrespace equivalent of Roe v Wade.

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5 minutes ago, Weave said:

Oh hell no.  I’m sure most know my stance.

This is the Sabrespace equivalent of Roe v Wade.

Ah so you'd rather Row away than Wade in I get it.. 

 

 

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12 minutes ago, Drunkard said:

Exactly. Overpaying the next Okposo isn't going to get us out of this mess.

Yeah while i do think Lee is a better player than Okposo there's no way he is worth that term & money for our team. Plus i don't think theres any way the NYI lets Lee walk. He's too important to their team right now & is their Captain.

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No, he's great with Eichel and Mittelstadt will be the 2C in the not too distant future.

Keep Eichel and Reinhart together, stop splitting them up...good duos stay together.

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