Taro T Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Realizing it's a fairly unpopular opinion, but really don't want Reinhart moved to C. He is far and away the team's top RW and is faaaar from a certainty to be an adequate (much less good) 2C. He has very good chemistry with the team's best forward and Eichel plays better when teamed with Sam. Would rather see Eichel's game raised rather than possibly raise Rodrigues' game playing on Sam's wing. Really believe those 2 are at their best when teamed up and there isn't a RW on this team that comes close to playing as well as Sam does with Jack. (The 6 great games we'd see from Pominville this coming season should his corpse be re-signed won't make up for the other 70 or so when he's playing like a 15th forward at best.) The team needs a 2C for the next season or 2, but rolling the dice on answer being Reinhart will be roughly as foolhardy as having the answer be either Berglund or Sobotka, IMHO. Reinhart would be the slowest player of the top 6 (unless sadly Thompson ends up in the top 6) and having him joining the rush from low in the Sabres zone would often necessarily leave the Sabres breaking out with 2 F's being trailed by Sam and a D. His setting up down low by the other team's net will necessarily also result in one of his wings having to typically cover for his low zone coverage after the puck transitions back into the Sabres' zone. Can see the merit of not having the 3 best forwards all on the same line, but would honestly rather see Skinner given his "own" line (especially if he could get put with a true 2C rather than putting him with this season's Mittelstadt) and put Olofsson on JAck and Sam's line. Reasoning being that Skinner does a very good job of backchecking in the offensive zone creating chances for himself and tends to set up in a peripheral spot near the net that any center can help set up (Carolina proved that through the years) and will still be a 30+ goal scorer on his own line. Olofsson, through a very small sample size, has demonstrated a chemistry with Eichel and Reinhart similar to that of Skinner. Would doubt that Olofsson will do nearly as well with another C as he will with Eichel; though do expect Skinner to be a top goal scorer regardless of center. And while I expect 1 of Olofsson, Thompson, and Nylander to be worthy of top 6 minutes (already said which one :)), really don't want to depend on 2 or all 3 of them belonging there which we're almost forced to do with Reinhart moved to C. Let Botterill do his job and bring in a real 2C and a real 2RW. Then keep Sam and Jack together and figure out which way the team is stronger - having Victor on their wing or Jeff. The 3rd line becomes Sheary - Mittelstadt - Rodrigues/Thompson. Mittelstadt belongs at C; especially with the way he drives the puck towards the center of the ice and carries through the ensuing phone booth. But he belongs at 3rd scoring line C. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#freejame Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 46 minutes ago, Taro T said: Can see the merit of not having the 3 best forwards all on the same line, but would honestly rather see Skinner given his "own" line (especially if he could get put with a true 2C rather than putting him with this season's Mittelstadt) and put Olofsson on JAck and Sam's line. Reasoning being that Skinner does a very good job of backchecking in the offensive zone creating chances for himself and tends to set up in a peripheral spot near the net that any center can help set up (Carolina proved that through the years) and will still be a 30+ goal scorer on his own line. Olofsson, through a very small sample size, has demonstrated a chemistry with Eichel and Reinhart similar to that of Skinner. Would doubt that Olofsson will do nearly as well with another C as he will with Eichel; though do expect Skinner to be a top goal scorer regardless of center. Let Botterill do his job and bring in a real 2C and a real 2RW. Then keep Sam and Jack together and figure out which way the team is stronger - having Victor on their wing or Jeff. The 3rd line becomes Sheary - Mittelstadt - Rodrigues/Thompson. Mittelstadt belongs at C; especially with the way he drives the puck towards the center of the ice and carries through the ensuing phone booth. But he belongs at 3rd scoring line C. Couldn’t agree more with this. Does JT Miller play both wing and center or am I thinking of Hayes? A player with that flexibility would be the ideal fit for a 2C stopgap for Mitts, and could then slot down to 3C or 2RW depending on how he’s looking the following season and who the other player we sign this off-season is. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, dudacek said: Weave has been among the most resistant to the Sam as a centre push. Not entirely accurate, but acceptable for brevity. My arguement all along was that Sam is a better wing than center and had more value to the team as a very good 1st line wing than he does as a mediocre center. And that holds doubly true if his wings are mediocre. I believe I was the first to compare him to Patrick Sharpe, a very good wing who could play center when needed and he wouldn’t look out of place, but is still more valuable overall on the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheektorado Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I would like to know what Sam thinks about Center v Winger. Then I would want to know what Jack's opinion is. As for the top 6 and who plays on what which lines I am at the point where Jack, Sam and Skinner (of course signed) need to have a BIG say. Jack knows all 3 can't be on the same line. These 3 have about 1,300 games between them and Jack and Sam know more about the other possible top 6 players on the Sabres better than HCRK (who I suspect may feel the same way and may desire them to be more involved). Entering their 5th full seasons it's time for Jack and Sam to lead to figure this out EVEN IF that means Skinner and Sam (RW/C) on the same line and Jack picking up 2 new wingers. IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Weave said: Not entirely accurate, but acceptable for brevity. My arguement all along was that Sam is a better wing than center and had more value to the team as a very good 1st line wing than he does as a mediocre center. And that holds doubly true if his wings are mediocre. I believe I was the first to compare him to Patrick Sharpe, a very good wing who could play center when needed and he wouldn’t look out of place, but is still more valuable overall on the wing. That’s what my memory was telling me. The only part I disagree with is that I think the sample size of Sam-the-Centre is too limited to conclude he is mediocre. I believe Bylsma unfortunately messed up his development and think that ship may have sailed. I want the team to acquire a 2c, but not at any cost. I’d rather try Sam at 2c and Eberle at 2rw than Sam at 2rw and some stopgap at 2c like another Berglund, or a reclamation project like Brassard. Edited June 6, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weave Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, dudacek said: That’s what my memory was telling me. The only part I disagree with is that I think the sample size of Sam-the-Centre is too limited to conclude he is mediocre. I believe Bylsma unfortunately messed up his development and think that ship may have sailed. I want the team to acquire a 2c, but not at any cost. I’d rather try Sam at 2c and Eberle at 2rw than Sam at 2rw and some stopgap at 2c like another Berglund, or a reclamation project like Brassard. Which is pretty much a Patrick Sharpe role. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 1 hour ago, dudacek said: That’s what my memory was telling me. The only part I disagree with is that I think the sample size of Sam-the-Centre is too limited to conclude he is mediocre. I believe Bylsma unfortunately messed up his development and think that ship may have sailed. I want the team to acquire a 2c, but not at any cost. I’d rather try Sam at 2c and Eberle at 2rw than Sam at 2rw and some stopgap at 2c like another Berglund, or a reclamation project like Brassard. I understand not wanting to overpay for a 2C when (hopefully) Mittelstadt can do it by next year. But if you don't fill the hole, the season is basically sunk. I know you believe in Sam, but are you willing to bet the season on him capably handling 2C for a playoff team? Expecting a 4C skating at 2C like Berglund to be enough of a backup plan is asking for pain, I think. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I haven’t seen a better move than something built around JT Miller for 30. Hopefully Casey shakes off the baby fat and makes this discussion redundant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 I didn't see anything from Mitts that makes me think he's a future 2C. Better to pencil him in as a 3C and go from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Reinhart should have his own line. Stop being Housley and neutering this team to 1 line. It doesn't work. 30 minutes ago, ... said: I didn't see anything from Mitts that makes me think he's a future 2C. Better to pencil him in as a 3C and go from there. I disagree Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Reinhart should have his own line. Stop being Housley and neutering this team to 1 line. It doesn't work. I agree, and he can do it from the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: I agree, and he can do it from the wing. Ok, then give him mittelstadt at center. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 1 minute ago, LGR4GM said: Ok, then give him mittelstadt at center. So your solution is to return to the disastrous center spine of 2018? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Just now, TrueBlueGED said: So your solution is to return to the disastrous center spine of 2018? No. I want another center brought in. I also want mittelstadt to have a legit winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 10 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Ok, then give him mittelstadt at center. 8 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: So your solution is to return to the disastrous center spine of 2018? 7 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: No. I want another center brought in. I also want mittelstadt to have a legit winger. So, you're bumping Reinhart to the 3rd line, so he can "have his own line?" :huh: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, Taro T said: So, you're bumping Reinhart to the 3rd line, so he can "have his own line?" :huh: No. I'm putting Mitts on line 2, with a strong 3c in case he needs a break or more time. I'm giving Mitts a real winger who can also help him at center. Everyone gets to hung up on line numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Everyone gets to hung up on line numbers. They do. It’s about ice time and situations. Max Roy Vanek was a 2nd line in makeup, a 3rd line in ice time. Peca Ward Varada was a 3rd line in makeup and a 1st in ice time. Find the combinations that allow you to succeed. This fascination with hierarchy has nothing to do with how coaches coach. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: No. I'm putting Mitts on line 2, with a strong 3c in case he needs a break or more time. I'm giving Mitts a real winger who can also help him at center. Everyone gets to hung up on line numbers. With all due respect, there's no way Mittelstadt will be ready for 2C duty in October evenif he's given both Reinhart & Skinner. That's not by naming, that's by usage. If he's centering the 2nd scoring line, he'll be overmatched & overused. He'd be getting 15 tough minutes / game. He should get 12 easy-ish minutes / game. In a season or 2, he'll be ready to primarily face the other team's 2nd D pairing (occasionally the top pairing) & 1st or 2nd line. But not yet. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
... Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 12 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: Everyone gets to hung up on line numbers. 3 minutes ago, dudacek said: This fascination with hierarchy has nothing to do with how coaches coach. Fine. I see nothing in Mitts that makes me think he should be considered the second most important center on an NHL team. Edited June 7, 2019 by ... Nothing beats nothing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, ... said: Fine. I see nothing in Mitts that makes me think he should be considered the second most important center on an NHL team. This is fair, particularly watching the second half of the season. He failed to get separation and often looked frustrated. The hands though, when he did get space? I just remember the burst and the puck hounding as a junior and think it will resurface when his fitness and strength improves to NHL levels. Physical maturity will bring some of it, and the natural competitiveness should bring the rest. He was a boy last year but compete is in his DNA. Edited June 7, 2019 by dudacek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrueBlueGED Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 16 minutes ago, Taro T said: With all due respect, there's no way Mittelstadt will be ready for 2C duty in October evenif he's given both Reinhart & Skinner. That's not by naming, that's by usage. If he's centering the 2nd scoring line, he'll be overmatched & overused. He'd be getting 15 tough minutes / game. He should get 12 easy-ish minutes / game. In a season or 2, he'll be ready to primarily face the other team's 2nd D pairing (occasionally the top pairing) & 1st or 2nd line. But not yet. Right. This is the problem with Sam as the solution...if he's not the solution, you're royally F'd. I have no problem with Sam at center being an option, but I have a massive problem with Sam at center being the plan. 7 minutes ago, dudacek said: This is fair, particularly watching the second half of the season. He failed to get separation and often looked frustrated. The hands though, when he did get space? I just remember the burst and the puck hounding as a junior and think it will resurface when his fitness and strength improves to NHL levels. Physical maturity will bring some of it, and the natural competitiveness should bring the rest. He was a boy last year but compete is in his DNA. I 100% believe in Mittelstadt as 2C...just not this season. If we add a legit 2C and Mittelstadt explodes, then we could make a deep playoff run. Great! Just can't go relying on it a second season in a row. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 11 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said: Right. This is the problem with Sam as the solution...if he's not the solution, you're royally F'd. I have no problem with Sam at center being an option, but I have a massive problem with Sam at center being the plan. I 100% believe in Mittelstadt as 2C...just not this season. If we add a legit 2C and Mittelstadt explodes, then we could make a deep playoff run. Great! Just can't go relying on it a second season in a row. I agree with you on this. I just don’t know where we are going to get this guy. Think there is a team out there we can package Nylander, a 1st, and a 2nd to for a center? I hear that’s the going rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LGR4GM Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 What about Anders Lee for a couple years? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dudacek Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, LGR4GM said: What about Anders Lee for a couple years? He’d be a good addition, but he’s not a centre and he’s not signing anywhere for a couple of years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Not ideal, but wouldn't hate Johansson as a FA to fill that 2C role. Especially if a real RW also gets brought in, probably by trade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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