The ROR trade sucked thread

[Pimlach]

9 hours ago, MakeSabresGrr8Again said:

We'll agree to disagree. We can revisit this when(if) ROR gets his 4th Selke. Too much applause for him when others made at least as much contributions to the Blues success. Just want to spread the hoorahs around to some deserving players and coach.

Same can be said for Bergeron.  Great player, yes.  He plays with a pretty good cast as well and he gets the most praise on that team.  

Spreading the woorahs around  can be difficult.  These trophies tend to go to players on winning teams or from big markets. The great Bob Gainey won 4 or 5 Selke’s and a bunch of Stanley Cups.  Craig Ramsey finished 2nd or 3rd  to Gainey a lot, Rammer won 1 Selke very late in his career when not even playing his best game.   

Looking at their careers Ramsey scored more goals, had more points, and a better +/- than Gainey.  Defensively they looked pretty equal to me and there were no advanced analytics to prove otherwise.  Gainey’s team won Cups and he played well in the playoffs.  Those Canadian Teams had everything.  

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by Pimlach

[Pimlach]

5 hours ago, PerreaultForever said:

Bergeron was playing hurt in the final.   

https://www.sportingnews.com/ca/nhl/news/stanley-cup-final-bruins-patrice-bergeron-confirms-he-played-through-groin-injury/8milpcf9kbyr1fmxd7857ex4t

Other articles have said the entire so called Perfection Line was playing hurt, hence their decreased production. Doesn't really matter, but I still think when healthy, Bergeron is the best and better than ROR. 

Yes, I travel to New England for business.  The fans were blaming the “Production Line” for the loss and the excuses about injuries are flowing.  The fact that the Blues pounded them never gets mentioned though.  The Blues put out 4 lines that played fast, took the body at every opportunity, and scored timely goals. 

Bergeron vs ROR ?  Sure Bergeron has been elite longer but as of now, today, ROR is playing better. 

[jsb]

Well there's little question that the immediate winner of that trade was St. Louis but let's sit on this for 3-4 years and see the progress of Johnson, Tage and Miller and see where this goes then. Those guys will be  starting their prime years while ROR will start the inevitable decline. Then we'll see if this trade evens out some or is truly the terrible trade it looks like now. Tage still has time to turn it on and Johnson looked like a potentially skilled D man at the development camp. 

 

[TrueBlueGED]

1 hour ago, jsb said:

Well there's little question that the immediate winner of that trade was St. Louis but let's sit on this for 3-4 years and see the progress of Johnson, Tage and Miller and see where this goes then. Those guys will be  starting their prime years while ROR will start the inevitable decline. Then we'll see if this trade evens out some or is truly the terrible trade it looks like now. Tage still has time to turn it on and Johnson looked like a potentially skilled D man at the development camp. 

 

While technically true (except for Miller, who is already in his prime), let's be honest: the likelihood of either Thompson or Johnson becoming O'Reilly-caliber players is incredibly low. So low, in fact, that I don't think we reasonably need 4 years to judge the trade a flop. 

[jsb]

7 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

While technically true (except for Miller, who is already in his prime), let's be honest: the likelihood of either Thompson or Johnson becoming O'Reilly-caliber players is incredibly low. So low, in fact, that I don't think we reasonably need 4 years to judge the trade a flop. 

Fair point but the Sabres issues are far more complex than just trading a very good player. The organizational depth is and was terrible. Until it gets fixed and our young guns mature, we're just spinning our wheels. With ROR we still were the worst team in the league. He wasn't our savior and we weren't dealing from a position of strength on that trade. The trade may be the flop you're alluding to but it may not be as bad further down the road.

[TrueBlueGED]

1 hour ago, jsb said:

Fair point but the Sabres issues are far more complex than just trading a very good player. The organizational depth is and was terrible. Until it gets fixed and our young guns mature, we're just spinning our wheels. With ROR we still were the worst team in the league. He wasn't our savior and we weren't dealing from a position of strength on that trade. The trade may be the flop you're alluding to but it may not be as bad further down the road.

Of course he isn't a savior, no one player is. If we traded Jack for 2 cap dumps and a handful of magic beans, would that be okay under the reasoning we won't know for 4 years and we finished in last with him anyway? Of course not. And we were dealing from a position of strength because he had 5 years left on his contract. Botterill didn't use that leverage, and that's on him. The trade was an abomination from the time it was made, and any attempts to frame it otherwise are really trying too hard. It doesn't have to define Botterill's tenure as GM, and I've said before plenty of GMs have made really bad trades and still be successful on the whole. But I really wish people would stop trying to frame or rationalize this trade in anything but a negative light, because the evidence simply doesn't support anything but it sucked.

[nucci]

4 hours ago, jsb said:

Well there's little question that the immediate winner of that trade was St. Louis but let's sit on this for 3-4 years and see the progress of Johnson, Tage and Miller and see where this goes then. Those guys will be  starting their prime years while ROR will start the inevitable decline. Then we'll see if this trade evens out some or is truly the terrible trade it looks like now. Tage still has time to turn it on and Johnson looked like a potentially skilled D man at the development camp. 

 

another 3-4 years? Really? But they won the Cup...isn't that the goal?

 

Edited June 30, 2019 by nucci

[PerreaultForever]

6 hours ago, Pimlach said:

Yes, I travel to New England for business.  The fans were blaming the “Production Line” for the loss and the excuses about injuries are flowing.  The fact that the Blues pounded them never gets mentioned though.  The Blues put out 4 lines that played fast, took the body at every opportunity, and scored timely goals. 

Bergeron vs ROR ?  Sure Bergeron has been elite longer but as of now, today, ROR is playing better. 

No doubt. The Bruins were older and they'd already been pounded a little by Columbus. St. Louis did a good job under the new old Flyers style coaching (physical first) and they replaced the 3 fringe guys they sent us with physical role players. It was a solid team built around ROR. They made him the star, which he loves, and which wasn't going to happen here but I also do wonder what the conversation would have been here if they hadn't been gifted game 5 and they lost the series in 6. Maybe then we'd all feel a little better about the ROR trade. Maybe. 

[carpandean]

2 hours ago, nucci said:

another 3-4 years? Really? But they won the Cup...isn't that the goal?

I believe "Cups" was the goal. ?

[GASabresIUFAN]

So the ROR trade is now Thompson, Johnson and Colin Miller for ROR.

[TrueBlueGED]

4 minutes ago, GASabresIUFAN said:

So the ROR trade is now Thompson, Johnson and Colin Miller for ROR.

Sir. You're missing one Vlad Sobotka. 

[carpandean]

23 minutes ago, TrueBlueGED said:

Sir. You're missing one Vlad Sobotka. 

I wouldn't say that he's been missing him, Bob.